I want to try a stalker but not sure which one
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2012-04-25 18:12 in Stalkers
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I'll buy that... SR is the Complete Idiot's Guide to Softcapping for Dummies. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Your mileage may vary. The average person is going to find SR's better numbers and toggle-and-forget mentality, aside from Practiced Brawler, a lot easier to use (and build for) than the hodge-podge of tools Ninjutsu has.
Deny it if you'd like, but SR is simplistic. |
But that's the only thing it has going for it when compared to Ninjitsu. You end up using just as many power and slot choices to get the high defense, you just do it with passive powers instead of set bonuses. I've personally found that the higher DDR in SR gets trumped by the soft controls in Ninjitsu, but you have to pay attention and think with /Nin compared to just mashing buttons with /SR.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I've just recently gotten into stalkers. I'm not the most knowledgeable, but having recently play a few to the 30's 40's and 50 I've got some experience. So, I'm not going to talk about Min/Max and Incarnate stuff....that might be what you're looking for but for a different perspective(all personal, and built around "fun" not "uber")
Primary...
Kin Melee - FUN! Get the Stalker ATO asap, and put it in assasin strike, I love the feeling of getting a build up constantly. It's an overly active primary since you get addicted to getting that build up back instantly. Good burst damage...not amazing, but you roll along as long as you can find something to hit...This was my first stalker to 50...Kin/Ice I loved every second of him....I feel like I play him a little more like a brute...he just alwasy wants to keep on going...
Staff- leveling one up now, you don't want it so real quick...I like it alot, gets going at a real early level...but I think peaks early then fades a bit. If you're going to roll staff go for one of the AT's that really gets to use all the mechanics and AOE...
STJ - OMG!!!!! Big orange numbers! but really you're just spending the low levels waiting for CU. If you take awhile to get to 32, and are impatient pick something else
Dark Melee- good ST damge = YES, added mitigation -ACC = YES, self heal for SR or any other 2ndary = yes, annoying annimation in shadow maul = (personal preference) 3.3 seconds long!
ELM - stalker is stuck at lowbie right now....I've read good things...but I'm waiting for the fun...
Claws - meh for me on stalkers...this is a brute/scrapper set for me.
BS- havent used on stalker
EM - I've got a proc'd out build but haven't started to level him yet...I'd like the return of pom poms though...
Dual blades - I've got 2 swords! I like this guy just for that! for me...this doesn't feel like the most powerfuil stalker, but I'm hoping to get him to 50 and IO him out...I see the potential
NB - low levels still...
I'd say Kin, STJ, Dark....are the most fun...ELM will have the AOE goodness...those are my top 4. (all personal opinion again)
Kin melee is fun though!!!
2ndary
Tend to do better still with the defensive 2ndaries.
However, low level I like both regen and Willpower. Regen is very clicky though...but its alot of fun for me. Willpower you get a heal very early and good S/L resistance.
All stalkers can solo...and they can all do well on PUGs, depends on who you get for support toons...
I tend to play with a tray of purples...and not worry about softcap on my way leveling up...Purples last 60 seconds....greens last about 5 seconds if you're getting hammered on...
Nin - gets you a heal, status protection, and very good defense by level 20. What more can you ask for, and it only takes 4 powers and 2 purples to softcap you from level 20 on...with a self heal! The utility stacks on that.
Ice - I'm loving my /Ice at 50! takes a long time to get energy def...and I take all the powers...but very solid mitigation for you and your team(chilling embrace) Big Psi hole, but you do have hoarfrost...and you'll have it perma if you're smart!
Dark - I love dark, its not the easiest set to play...I have 3 scrappers at 50, 2 brutes, a tank and a stalker on his way up .... Great heal, so many different way to build it, but you can get high + rech, softcaped S/L/E/N, or close to M/R/AOE(while hidden, with ninja blade). self rez, and OG is just fun on melee toons. stalker build isn't IO'd out yet, but he will be good + rech and softcapped, with great resists and a great heal!. Endurance can be an issue...but isn't it always....
Elec - dont know
EA - Very good set, VERY big PSI hole... Energize is awesome!
SR - Never been a fan...its all 1 thing... does it very good, but since I like to carry purples...never gotten into this set.
WP - Have 1 at 50, he's fun, t9 doesn't crash you I think this is a great pairing for staff. since stalkers get the +res it stacks nicely and for me purples are still useful.
Like I said....not min max....Kin melee is fun, Nin is fun ice is fun....
My newest stalker is a "DUNE" character named Holtzman effect...He's a shield fighter (Ice armor tinted as yellow as possible WHY IS THERE NO YELLOW ICE!) with a staff instead of a knife....He's got a still suit on (that rebreather thing where they drink their own pee and sweat)...I really like him for his story...I think I'm up to 25 with him....I don't think anyone's realized he's a Dune character yet though....
Fun times....back to work....
Motivation is the art of getting people to do what you want them to do because they want to do it.
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Relies on hide to softcap (which I'm not sold on yet - I want to see my costume) and does not cap aoe, but still quite good. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
Auroxis' Elec/Nin build
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Here's my current live build: |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Relies on hide to softcap (which I'm not sold on yet - I want to see my costume) and does not cap aoe, but still quite good. Thanks!
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http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...23FE0F6ED2F309
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1544;718;1436;HEX;| |78DA6554596F125114BE0343E95028D005E84E4B5BB6765AD407E39226DA6AB445D| |BE216A3E284DED2690910C0C43EFA6AD4A82FFE01D717FF8BDB5BFF82CBBBD6F130| |E7A3924042BEB37EE7BBE75EC83E5CF67EBCF8684928BEF325A35ECFE71A46694FD| |65C59A368169C420877AE523376CDB29BEC7164F3595992525F29C942A366168C12| |0722ADF4B2DC96E5BAD4AF98E55DB3517F10BC54DE9135596EE82DC3B35EA994F45| |C55CA2DAF6DAE49A36A968B3EDBB96016771AE4F95BA92D59ABEF98D5A195AA59D0| |CF55B6F6F359A3DE90B5FD96DE08A94BD3F7B126F0B19C629720A389AE2263F75E1| |355D1BDCDFE6AB356B16B1531A8D8B9AE01C5CE3DD19012964B39EBB0738E330E3B| |E738C9FEF029E069C6D125A78D59EA7532AFC3095E15BC6A80F129D5B8C0EFFAC67| |D9EAF8C7D5F18073E033F31A6A07F8D7ADDE07783DF03FE08F89F518D067EED03EB| |F3BE67EC7D0D7CC31878C7E70ABC657F8AAEBA077BE949F3AEBCC030E57CCC2B7C0| |754AFA9E22A0DF273BDF0A759E3738A05313F9866DEBE14CF0925D90F25182371C6| |24CEB74EBDFDCCE7EABFC1E79BBECE98DA609CDBE4732EE4D8CF5C633F44FA06A17| |D10BB19C76E14CA85A13D3CCCB35ED0AC21E81CFA837BB418C7FF0205EF7FF237FB| |F1434627F18DE01E46C2648C91BE8C93751DE31E956AC67096313FCED2CB38EB037| |A19933D8CF31EC697A46D02DA26A0210A6D51688B42CB24B4B7342A2121A6D03B85| |DED821EF3F86DA186AA7C19901679034CF40F30C34CF42731C9AE3D03C07CD49688| |E516F023B4E1C30DFA6C6BFCD265FDAE0D8DC7DC6F9BBC03CE3C23D68B98337437C| |3ADE963EC96F30477C8B98B1883B1E518F7EF7D6E87FBBE95A96487544163B22998| |EC8F18EC8898EC85A47645D3DFAE7108A1DD102A27903B6B6EF1ECAE23CCA3CBFC1| |9FEDB1CB64C455F1A33D96E0BA5FEDB128EFE2B6C79E6C73DF6AB36FB6D91B6DF66| |A3FB53187F5AA6923FE0F6ED2F309| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Yes, yes, and yes!|
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Street Justice/Ice is apparently amazing.
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Unfortunately, Staff is now my #1 favorite set so far. It has like almost everything I want! Good reach, good aoe, has +defense that's part of an aoe, hits pretty hard and it's not all lethal!
One thing I've noticed is Staff's redraw animation seems to be a tiny bit longer than others? I am glad I am /Elec because I don't need to redraw much. My friend's Staff/Nin seems to redraw more 'cause of the healing and mez clicky.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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You're gimping yourself just to see a costume all of the time instead of when in combat? This seems pretty stupid to me...go roll a scrapper and then you wont have this problem
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Relies on hide to softcap (which I'm not sold on yet - I want to see my costume) and does not cap aoe, but still quite good. Thanks!
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[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
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While reaching the softcap might rely on Hide, I always see my characters costume as soon as I attack.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Relies on hide to softcap (which I'm not sold on yet - I want to see my costume) and does not cap aoe, but still quite good. Thanks!
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And if I'm just travelling zone to zone and want to see my characters costume, I can detoggle Hide.
But in a mission, I see it plenty since I'm not sitting in one place so hide can reestablish itself.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Besides it's clickie mez protection power (which annoys me to no end...it didn't use to, but now it just does 
) the only problem I've had with NIN is it's DDR feels as low as WP's.
NIN is to much of a defense set to have it feeling that low. I'm not expecting and don't think it should have SR levels of DDR. It has the added tools (which in my experience weren't always that helpful, but I admit it could just be my playstyle) and a self heal. I expect it to have a lower DDR than SR.
Of course if NIN got a toggle mez protection or a raise in DDR, one of those changes might make me relevel a NIN.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
All I know is, my dark/dark/soul stalker cannot solo a pylon, but he is pretty awesome in Dark Astoria
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
The problem I'm finding with NIN (using Auroxis' build) is that the lack of scaling resists (vs. SR) and the lack of meaningful other resists outside of meagre Tough means that if something hits you, it really hurts.
And with that pesky 5% chance, it means that a lot of Romans (esp. on +1 or +2 or higher) pounding on you can drop you pretty fast -- between the -DEF and the crazy damage of their attacks. I've seen it on a bunch of ITFs. Same for the Boss Khelds (the dwarfs) in the Crystal mish, who seem to have a higher to-hit chance ... a couple of them tag you, and you're done. The heal only gets you so far. Even standing in a group of Vikkies (WW) can be a challenge given they still have a chance to tag you. Maybe it's because the Romans and the Bosses resist the Confuse, which is about the only NIN tool in the basket worth using (though I admit the Mez protect in NIN is superior, vs. fear/confuse).
I'm really a bit surprised b/c the build looks awesome on paper, but I definitely feel the lack of resist. Especially relative to a /Shield or SR. This may be compounded by the fact that a Stalker has meaningfully lower HP than my SR or Shield toons (Scrappers, Brutes).
My StJ/Ice, with Hoarfrost and Shadow Meld, feels a lot sturdier. But obviously can't compete on AOE. My Staff/ELA feels sturdier too (soft-capped to SL). On paper, EA looks like it could be as good/better than NIN given you can still i-cap yourself (esp to S/L/E) and also you get better resists when stacked with Tough. And some passive regen through the heal. *shrug*.
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You're giving SR's scaling resists too much credit. My main scrapper was SR, and it wasn't anything to write home about. On my Nin, I carry oranges for when going gets tough, a few purples as well if needed, and unless I get really unlucky I don't hit the floor.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
The problem I'm finding with NIN (using Auroxis' build) is that the lack of scaling resists (vs. SR) and the lack of meaningful other resists outside of meagre Tough means that if something hits you, it really hurts.
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If you're comparing Nin to Ice when Icy Bastion is up, yeah it's no contest(except against psi). Elec is very sturdy against S/L and Energy when softcapped, however it also has more prevalent defense debuff issues, and less survivability against exotics.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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And Psionic.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
You're giving SR's scaling resists too much credit. My main scrapper was SR, and it wasn't anything to write home about. On my Nin, I carry oranges for when going gets tough, a few purples as well if needed, and unless I get really unlucky I don't hit the floor.
If you're comparing Nin to Ice when Icy Bastion is up, yeah it's no contest(except against psi). Elec is very sturdy against S/L and Energy when softcapped, however it also has more prevalent defense debuff issues, and less survivability against exotics. |
And decently Fire.
And decently Ice.
... Everything but Toxic. You give ELA too little credit. It's regarded one of the best defensive sets in the game for a reason. Even just a soft cap to S/L mitigates so much damage, that the 75% Resistance cap and the 30%+ to everything not Toxic (With S/L at 60%+ mark) just makes you a virtually unstoppable juggernaut unless you get terribly, terribly unlucky.
I question even if Ice can beat out ELA, due to ELA having, at the very least, Endurance Management + A Damage Steroid (+20% RECH). Granted Ice has Icy Bastion (Not perma, obviously, and it slows down your damage to activate it) and Hoarfrost (The major perk)... I'm willing to argue, IOd out, ELA is the best Stalker secondary for combined Survivability and Damage.
Only SR edges out in PURE damage, but for Dual Blades only.
IE: You're talking like Icy Bastion is Perma and thus should always be regarded as relevant. It's not. Even if you got the 300% Global Recharge Cap +100% in Icy Bastion, that's a 75s Recharge with a 30 Duration. Less than 50% Up Time. And the odds of you being at that cap besides MAYBE trials is Not Happening. You're more likely sitting at 300%, which is a cooldown of 100, thusly 100 - 30 = 70s downtime.
ELA is far more consistent. Yes, it has trouble with DDR but, eh. It has to have a weakness somewhere.
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My main brute is an SS/Elec with softcapped S/L defense, so it's not like I'm theorycrafting.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
And Psionic.
And decently Fire. And decently Ice. ... Everything but Toxic. You give ELA too little credit. It's regarded one of the best defensive sets in the game for a reason. Even just a soft cap to S/L mitigates so much damage, that the 75% Resistance cap and the 30%+ to everything not Toxic (With S/L at 60%+ mark) just makes you a virtually unstoppable juggernaut unless you get terribly, terribly unlucky. ELA is far more consistent. Yes, it has trouble with DDR but, eh. It has to have a weakness somewhere. |
While you have decent resists against exotics with ELA, you don't have the defense to back them up. This is very noticeable once you consider exotics often have debuffs attached to them.
My main gripe with ELA on stalkers isn't its survivability, it's that it doesn't get a damage aura, so your DPS loss for getting typed defenses instead of damage bonuses isn't mitigated nearly as much.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Reppu are you talking about Ice armor here? If so it doesn't decently protect against ice attacks, it ignores ice attacks. Ice Armor runs around with 90 resists to cold, caped at 75, without even slotting for res.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
And Psionic.
And decently Fire. And decently Ice. |
Dirges
Ice (stalker version) and electric are my favorite two armors. They can both be unstoppable behemoths with the right slotting choices, and are probably the two best at most itrials. That said, ice beats electric slightly for most max survival scenarios, though I feel it also likes to have aid self. Electric's thing is its complete endurance drain protection, which can be a huge deal in those rare events when you need it.
For Granite, I would say make sure you use Caltrops at your feet, take/use kuji-in retsu and hibernate and you should have no problem with Romans.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
Additionally, the s/l defense covers most cold/fire attacks.|
Originally Posted by Dirges
Reppu are you talking about Ice armor here? If so it doesn't decently protect against ice attacks, it ignores ice attacks. Ice Armor runs around with 90 resists to cold, caped at 75, without even slotting for res.
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I was initially concerned about the lack of psi protection, so I jumped into a mob of +1 tarantula mistresses and fortunatas in rwz. With hoarfrost, chilling embrace, and icy bastion it was completely a non-issue. Hopefully that will also be the case when i get to MoM trial level.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
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Caltrops and hibernate aren't in the build |
Originally Posted by Microcosm
For Granite, I would say make sure you use Caltrops at your feet, take/use kuji-in retsu and hibernate and you should have no problem with Romans. |
Retsu solves the debuff issue but not the 5%+ chance of being hit, which I find really hurts in big groups like herding the Romans on maps or n the Crystal cave with the Kheld bosses. Maybe I need to chug oranges like Auro says.
ELA is interesting but EA pretty much is superior in most cases now. Ice on the other hand is amazing. 
Quote:
Not having Caltrops is part of the problem. Hibernate is not essential but is really nice because if you do get in over your head with debuffs you can freeze and let them wear off, simultaneously pitting you back in hide and healing you.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Caltrops and hibernate aren't in the build
Retsu solves the debuff issue but not the 5%+ chance of being hit, which I find really hurts in big groups like herding the Romans on maps or n the Crystal cave with the Kheld bosses. Maybe I need to chug oranges like Auro says. |
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
Could you explain how Caltrops is such a survivability boon? The fear effect, I presume?
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Not having Caltrops is part of the problem. Hibernate is not essential but is really nice because if you do get in over your head with debuffs you can freeze and let them wear off, simultaneously pitting you back in hide and healing you.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
My one stalker is a katana/willpower concept character (normal guy w/ sword) who was always super fun but is now actually *good* following the latest round of buffs.|
Originally Posted by Antarcticaa
After hearing and seeing the stalker really shine on teams and in solo play I've decided to give up my usual support ATs and try a stalker. I want to play one but not the staff type. I'm probably looking for a type of stalker that has great survivability and can team as easily as solo, since I am team oriented. Since I am so new at this AT, what powers would you recommend? Do you have a build you'd be willing to share with a new "convert?" I would really be grateful for your insights. Thanks!
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Unsure of how well other sets work, but this pairing is great. Good resists, a heal, and I can get some good defense going by throwing Parry into the mix.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
That and it is a major slow. So guys run up to you, and right before they attack the fear kicks in and the slowly run away.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Could you explain how Caltrops is such a survivability boon? The fear effect, I presume?
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Dirges
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Does it work on Bosses/EB's/AV's?
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Originally Posted by Dirges
That and it is a major slow. So guys run up to you, and right before they attack the fear kicks in and the slowly run away.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Not bad at all! Although I always found a pure incarnate soft cap to be pointless, as the odds of no one having Maneuvers, or Barrier, or a Defensive Shield is slim. As such, many of the forced power choices and slot decisions to obtain those caps rub me the wrong way. It's definitely good, but 'not my style'.