I want to try a stalker but not sure which one
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2012-04-25 18:12 in Stalkers
I've had luck and enjoyed Ninjitsu, Ice Armor, and Energy Aura. All three offer something unique to gameplay and really should be given a good look for a secondary choice.
If you'are a fan of aoe potential, electric melee fits that easily, although I have been really impressed with street justice for stalkers.
Don't I know you???
Looks like the latest melee powersets are great for stalkers.
Kinetic melee, Street justice and Staff fighting are awesome.
Aside that Electric melee is pretty damn good too... It had a bit of a hole on the single target damage that has been filled with the changes to AS so...
For defensive I would take ninjitsu because its the best fit for stalker nature and because is unique to them.
Ninjutsu has a KB hole, 'decent' DDR, and it's defenses suffer a bit. It has a few tricks to make up for this. Is it the best Defense set for Stalkers? Not in the least. Super Reflexes and Energy Aura are superior for what they do.
and Ice Armor.
But, Ninjutsu has it's tricks!
Primaries? They're ALL good, just some better than others. Play what you want.
Quote:
SR has no self heal (unless you want to lower your damage output with Aid Self) and pretty much has to get Rebirth. It also doesn't have Nin's psi resistance which I find handy on the MoM trial. Its DDR is stellar though.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Ninjutsu has a KB hole, 'decent' DDR, and it's defenses suffer a bit. It has a few tricks to make up for this. Is it the best Defense set for Stalkers? Not in the least. Super Reflexes and Energy Aura are superior for what they do.
|
EA is very weak to psi, even more so than Ice armor.
Nin is very well rounded. Heavy defense debuffing and hard hitting mobs cause it some trouble, but then again those cause trouble to almost everything.
Ice is probably the best, but it has aesthetic issues.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
SR is also the only current set that can do Hyper Recharge Dual Blades, so it has that perk. As well, why use Aid Self? I firmly believe in Green Trays. I also firmly believe Rebirth being one of the best Destinies in the game, so having to use it = bad? No. Disagreed!
It also has +20% Recharge which means you WILL be doing more damage than Ninjutsu, even if you absolutely need to use Aid Self or a Green.
Same goes with Energy Aura, +20% Recharge, and has Energize which is in itself amazing. Oh, and the best God Mode in the game.
Ice is Ice.
Ninjutsu, again, has it tricks. It gave up a bit too much for them, in this day and age. On the other hand, it has Caltrops. Win.
Quote:
The fact that it has to get Rebirth means that it cannot get Ageless, which gives about the same recharge benefit as Quickness, and takes care of all endurance issues which SR cannot address without building for it. Oh, and I firmly believe in red trays.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
SR is also the only current set that can do Hyper Recharge Dual Blades, so it has that perk. As well, why use Aid Self? I firmly believe in Green Trays. I also firmly believe Rebirth being one of the best Destinies in the game, so having to use it = bad? No. Disagreed!
It also has +20% Recharge which means you WILL be doing more damage than Ninjutsu, even if you absolutely need to use Aid Self or a Green. |
Quote:
| Same goes with Energy Aura, +20% Recharge, and has Energize which is in itself amazing. Oh, and the best God Mode in the game. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I wouldn't call Icy Bastion a god mode.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
The fact that it has to get Rebirth means that it cannot get Ageless, which gives about the same recharge benefit as Quickness, and takes care of all endurance issues which SR cannot address without building for it.
EA has great recharge for sure, but like I said it has very weak psi protection. Overload is nice but I would definitely not call it the best god mode in the game, that belongs to Icy Bastion. |
Also, misconception it HAS to take Rebirth. There is nothing wrong with using Aid Self during a Trial. Or, you know, popping one of your 20 Greens. Unless you're now going to say "Well then they're not carrying a tray of reds!", and to you I say "I bet you anything you never pop a full tray of reds in a trial."
Quote:
No need to take bets, I used multiple trays of reds last night to carry a MoM trial damage-wise.
|
Originally Posted by Reppu
I wouldn't call Icy Bastion a god mode.
Also, misconception it HAS to take Rebirth. There is nothing wrong with using Aid Self during a Trial. Or, you know, popping one of your 20 Greens. Unless you're now going to say "Well then they're not carrying a tray of reds!", and to you I say "I bet you anything you never pop a full tray of reds in a trial." |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I don't know if I should think that's sad or not. Either way, self-healing in sets is a perk, not a definition. If we're going to argue Ninjutsu is superior to SR because it has a small amount of Psionic Resistance and a Heal, I'll argue SR is superior to Ninjutsu because of it's vastly superior DDR, Base Defenses (which means more IO bonuses devoted to +DMG/Rech/Etc), and innate +RECH you can stack with Ageless.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
No need to take bets, I used multiple trays of reds last night to carry a MoM trial damage-wise.
|
To each their own.
Quote:
I'm not arguing anything is superior. You stated SR is superior to Nin, so I vouched in favor of Nin.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
I don't know if I should think that's sad or not. Either way, self-healing in sets is a perk, not a definition. If we're going to argue Ninjutsu is superior to SR because it has a small amount of Psionic Resistance and a Heal, I'll argue SR is superior to Ninjutsu because of it's vastly superior DDR, Base Defenses (which means more IO bonuses devoted to +DMG/Rech/Etc), and innate +RECH you can stack with Ageless.
To each their own. |
Oh, and I wouldn't call 45% resistance to psi small.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Double Stacking it is 2 additional seconds of not doing damage, though!
It's definitely not small, but Ninjutsu's inferior base Defense values and vastly inferior DDR and lack of KB protection means you have to fill a lot of gaps.
... while Super Reflexes needs to either carry Greens, or take Aid Self which is underrated anyway.
In terms of "How many flaws do I need to fix?", SR wins in that.
Ninjutsu's a good set, but it, again, gave up too much.
Quote:
I'm not seeing that. I have both SR and Nin built at the top-end, and one didn't have to "fix more flaws" than the other.
|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Double Stacking it is 2 additional seconds of not doing damage, though!
It's definitely not small, but Ninjutsu's inferior base Defense values and vastly inferior DDR and lack of KB protection means you have to fill a lot of gaps. ... while Super Reflexes needs to either carry Greens, or take Aid Self which is underrated anyway. In terms of "How many flaws do I need to fix?", SR wins in that. Ninjutsu's a good set, but it, again, gave up too much. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Ninjutsu has to devote a lot more slotting to Positionals to cap. You have to devote at least 2 IO's to get KB resistance worth acknowledging. You can't fix it's DDR disparity.
Super Reflexes has to use less slots to naturally cap it's Positionals. It needs to take Aid Self if it wants a heal outside of Inspirations.
The difference is: Ninjutsu, even though it's considered to be more survivable, has to spend more resources to become more survivable than Super Reflexes. Thus, I feel it's an inferior defensive set.
Quote:
DDR(and scaling res which you forgot to mention) disparity can't be fixed just like the psi resistance disparity. Aid Self, aside from the fact that forcing a power pick(two in fact) is just as bad as forcing defense slotting, will lower your damage, which can only be mitigated by taking Rebirth, which leaves you with endurance issues, which can only be mitigated with slots and/or grabbing powers from Body/Weapon mastery.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Ninjutsu has to devote a lot more slotting to Positionals to cap. You have to devote at least 2 IO's to get KB resistance worth acknowledging. You can't fix it's DDR disparity.
Super Reflexes has to use less slots to naturally cap it's Positionals. It needs to take Aid Self if it wants a heal outside of Inspirations. The difference is: Ninjutsu, even though it's considered to be more survivable, has to spend more resources to become more survivable than Super Reflexes. Thus, I fee it's an inferior defensive set. |
SR has just as many issues as Nin does, and they both specialize in different areas. Is Nin more catered to offense while SR is more catered to defense? Possibly, due to Ageless being a better option for Nin than it is for SR.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Except I can still take Ageless on SR and come out ahead. You're thinking way too linear with this. SR does not need Rebirth. SR loves Ageless and will benefit from it.
If you take a hit as SR, you're likely going to either Hit A Green, or be healed by someone in your team.
If you're doing Stupid Solo Tricks, who cares. Other ATs Do It Better. If you're looking for 100% "how do I increase my damage", SR and Energy Aura win because of their +20% Innate Recharge, on top of the viability of Ageless making that go even further.
Ninjutsu has better survivability in IOs, but less damage. Flat out. You can consider the fact SR needs to use Aid Self. I assume you're not being hit or can just Hit A Green It's Kay.
Quote:
You're bringing inspirations and teammates into a build discussion... Please understand that teammates are way too much of a wild card, and inspirations should be thought of as complementary instead of a cornerstone. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Except I can still take Ageless on SR and come out ahead. You're thinking way too linear with this. SR does not need Rebirth. SR loves Ageless and will benefit from it.
If you take a hit as SR, you're likely going to either Hit A Green, or be healed by someone in your team. If you're doing Stupid Solo Tricks, who cares. Other ATs Do It Better. If you're looking for 100% "how do I increase my damage", SR and Energy Aura win because of their +20% Innate Recharge, on top of the viability of Ageless making that go even further. Ninjutsu has better survivability in IOs, but less damage. Flat out. You can consider the fact SR needs to use Aid Self. I assume you're not being hit or can just Hit A Green It's Kay. |
Besides, just like SR can take greens after getting hit, Nin can take purps/oranges before getting hit(and self heal after getting hit).
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
So, you'd purposefully build /Ninjutsu without a natural soft cap and rely on 20 Purples?
I highly recommend Dual Blades just because of sound and animations. The skills are interesting though the final move is a bit 'out there', and the combos make for a little something to do in the mid levels. Every time a new power set comes out lately someone is making a thread somwhere about how concrete on a stick sounds like a wiffle bat, or a staff lacks 'thwack', but dual blades has a very satisfying crunch when you hack at stuff. Not to mention it comes with 100% MORE WEAPONS than any other weapon based set.
I don't have a high enough level stalker to jump into the high end conversation going on here, but for someone new to the class I would definitely recommend /SR. Your basic stepping stones are always going to be the same: Softcap defenses and an endless attack chain. /SR accomplishes both by helping recharge and giving you OODLES of defense powers, plus those two things synergize because of Luck of the Gambler. The Luck of The Gambler set has an individual IO (not a set bonus) that provides -7.5% recharge, and it's in it's own category for the Law of Five, so you can get five of that AND five more set bonuses with -7.5%... if you have enough defense powers with free slots (5+) which /SR obviously does.
Quote:
No, but I would purposefully build /Ninjutsu with an incarnate soft cap, and rely on purples in high -Def encounters like heavy Vicky spawns.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
So, you'd purposefully build /Ninjutsu without a natural soft cap and rely on 20 Purples?
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Alright. But it takes much less Positional Defense (Which is the harder of the two to build up) to cap SR than Ninjutsu. Thus, more room to devote to +DMG, or +RECH, or +HP, or whatever fancies you.
In the end: SR is easier to build. If it's your first time Stalker, SR is reliable, cheap, and easy to use.
Ninjutsu 'ends up better' (Aside from Super Recharge builds), but takes more to get there.
Quote:
Eh, I have almost 40% global damage bonuses and perma hasten on my Nin. I didn't have room for AoE incarnate softcap, but that's something I can use purples to deal with if necessary(which is rarely the case).|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Alright. But it takes much less Positional Defense (Which is the harder of the two to build up) to cap SR than Ninjutsu. Thus, more room to devote to +DMG, or +RECH, or +HP, or whatever fancies you.
|
Quote:
| In the end: SR is easier to build. If it's your first time Stalker, SR is reliable, cheap, and easy to use. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Your mileage may vary. The average person is going to find SR's better numbers and toggle-and-forget mentality, aside from Practiced Brawler, a lot easier to use (and build for) than the hodge-podge of tools Ninjutsu has.
Deny it if you'd like, but SR is simplistic.
Quote:
I'm interested. Can you please show an example icap build? It might be the way I build, but I haven't been able to icap any nin stalker.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
No, but I would purposefully build /Ninjutsu with an incarnate soft cap, and rely on purples in high -Def encounters like heavy Vicky spawns.
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The icap is all SR's got going for it, if I can replicate that on Nin, I'll switch sets at once.
Auroxis' Elec/Nin build
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Mutation Stalker
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mako-Dam%(9), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(9)
Level 1: Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7)
Level 2: Jacobs Ladder -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Armgdn-Dmg(3), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(27), FotG-ResDeb%(29)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 6: Assassin's Shock -- SStalkersG-Rchg/Hide%(A), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SStalkersG-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SStalkersG-Dmg/Rchg(21), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 8: Ninja Reflexes -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 10: Build Up -- GSFC-Build%(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(13), GSFC-ToHit(15), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(15), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(17), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(17)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Kuji-In Rin -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(23), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(25), Mako-Dam%(42)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(43), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Numna-Heal/Rchg(48), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Thunder Strike -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(31), Oblit-Dmg(34), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(43), GA-3defTpProc(48)
Level 30: Weave -- RedFtn-EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Dmg(34)
Level 35: Spring Attack -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(39), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 41: Superior Conditioning -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 44: Blinding Powder -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(45), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(46), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(46), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(48), CoPers-Conf(50)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
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Code:
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[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
After hearing and seeing the stalker really shine on teams and in solo play I've decided to give up my usual support ATs and try a stalker. I want to play one but not the staff type. I'm probably looking for a type of stalker that has great survivability and can team as easily as solo, since I am team oriented. Since I am so new at this AT, what powers would you recommend? Do you have a build you'd be willing to share with a new "convert?" I would really be grateful for your insights. Thanks!