Wonder if the Developers plays in PVP???

I would like to know and if so, how often. Do you, developers like it, enjoy it? And if so, are there any changes you would like to make to alter the present system therefore improving it?

I hope I am not revoking anyone or any rules in anyway of the CoH Forums.

There are many reasons why I am asking. Lately it has dawned upon me to realize that Incarnates helps improve the present style (I-13 changes) of PVP in zones, mainly RV. With that said, I am wondering how the new/unopened (yet) Incarnates as well as the opened Incarnate abilities will effect PVP as it is presently, meaning will they help compensate or the changes that were made in, I-13? For an example, Travel Suppression and Diminishing Returns (It really hurts to maximize my toon/s in every aspect as far as getting accolades and Incarnate abilities and Paragon Points for enhancements just for PVP and then its numbers get crunched).

There are quite a few toons, AT's even I would like to play within the PVP community but with the way it is, they are simply useless. It also kills the need to have these specific ATs for teaming in PVP zones/arenas. That’s an unfair situation so if you guys do involve yourself into PVP, you too may find that bothersome (although, you guys can load up an AT with every available power pool, primary & secondary if you wanted to and probably do). The real question remains, do you actually PVP with regular account AT's?

Thanks in advance.

Dev zillwig has done arena matches on a grav/ta and grav/poisen. IMO it is a hard balancing act for the devs to make all types effective because there are so many variables in PvP. I think incarnates are a way to help second tier builds compete. TS is a joke, it is a governor on a good engine and has totally gutted one of the best power sets in kinetics for PvP. I don't think the devs like ts, it is for the melee types that use ninja run and fly in zones...

I hope this engine comes back in some other form with pvp as main component. For those of you not around in early days of PvP it was just an awesome chaotic experience.

Thanks for replying Sinistar6000!

I've seen, Zwillinger come to Warburg recently, he really spiced things up that day for a PVP zone and for those who loves to PVP and too, those who never ever tried it. It was fun, interesting and exciting. It is one of the reasons of why, I've sparked the question.

I feel if the Devs do apply themselves within a PVP environment to a degree of self's interest, they may implement a bit of changes. Not big ones but some that will make a bit more sense. For an example, my Energy Melee/Ninjitsu Stalker (loving it btw) is fun to play in RV, however though; it suffers greatly due to 'Travel Suppression'. I make an attack, the player is getting away and I cannot finish him/her off because he has then relieved himself from my range to attack all due to that Travel Suppression. Using Judgement Pyronic can and does help with range, but that’s not the point. The player's HP drops nicely after a few hits, I gets excited and then I am reminded by insult, "Your will to travel has been suppressed for a moment". It's a very disappointment moment. My stalker is capped at running and jumping speeds but then DR hits that (another subject).

PVP is what I like to do and to get good at it, PVE is a must, I know this, we know this, its where all the armors, enhancers and skills to do so comes from. It may be a different world of CoH pve but it's not quite that different.

I enjoyed PvP in this game to some degree prior to I-13. After the devs decided to murder PvP in I-13 I made a decision that it was no longer for me. I have played this game since I-8. PvP was murdered in I-13 and we are going on I-23 now.

So ten issues later and only one dev gives any real personal time to PvP in this game. I think that actions speak louder than words.

Z was also the red tag that told me "No questions on PvP will be allowed." during the live Ustream of the player summit. The Dev wouldn't even feild questions related to PvP during panels that could pertain to PvE or P. Example: When they were talking about making a Radiation Armor set. Or, even during end game.

I really think an Incarnate LVL PvP zone should be made. Along with lists and lists of PvP fixes. I don't even PvP. I would like to, but not in it's current form. Nothing bothers me more in this game than the fact that PvP is sooo overlooked.

I took a lot of heat from other players for asking PvP questions. One said "this game is 99% PvE... deal with it!!". It made me think about it. He could be right. But, then most of the hardcore CoH players are badgers. If you look around you'll see they have all the PvP badges. Yet they hate PvP (the ones that give me a hard time) and they usually hate farming. Yet their scrappers have the 3rd healing badge and thier Defenders have all the PvP badges. Makes you think.


All though I don't PvP as much I would like to... I do want to throw mad support to those who do. You fight for a part of the game that other player mock and Devs seem to hate. I got a lot of things going on atm but i might plan a few PvP events this summer.


Keep fighting the good fight.

Last


Ps: was thinking maybe hosting one of these ideas. let me know what sounds fun.

1) Cage matches.. 1v1 in the monkey cage. No ranged or weapons. Melee sets: MA,StJ,SS,DM,ext...

2) All Weapon cage matches... 1v1 in the cage. swords,axes,TWs,ext...

3) MW3 style.... 2 teams... pistols, AR, Beam Rifle.... ext.

4) Four elements.... 4 teams.... Ice, Fire, Earth, Electric

5) Theme Teams.... Like above but any matching team.... Psi, NRG, ext...

Or we can do them all and find out which is fun!!

Interesting ideas Last Ronin! Me? I haven't planned anything in that concept as of yet but it does sounds like a good idea. On the specs per match, that I do not know how that will appeal to others but we'll never know unless chance is given.

On the Devs part, I cannot understand why they may hate it, I am hoping that they, themselves give it a shot on regular accounts, literally. Not with their personal archetypes with every primary/secondary for that Archetype they use for public appearance. But it is an interest that should be there into making in all accounts for the CoX community. I strongly believe its part of End-Game content really. With the new fixes (nerfs) done back in Issue 13 and so forth from then could be looked at as well. Travel Suppression is way too much and it exists in both contents, PVE and PVP. Have you noticed when playing on trials, BAF in particular and if you are playing a melee toon chasing down those mind-washed escaping prisoners, the TS takes a toll when you are attacking. Some may even escape because of this system. If it can be reduced to a very reasonable number or even taking off the mechanics, which would make a significant difference alone.

I do understand the mechanics of why DR (Diminishing Returns) exists. Anyone can make a soft-capped defensive build and be dam near unkillable (maybe) in PVP zones. So I can see why DR has a roll in PVP but it can be reduced a bit allowing those who have achieved a lot to enhance their archetype to shine sort of speak. Also allowing other archetypes the chance to be useful again such as Force Fields, Sonic Resonance … Kinetics, & Empathy and so forth. IF it is suppose to be a well balanced PVP system, which single handedly put those archetypes out of the usefulness to partake in PVP such as teams, etc. Some folks love to play their Empathy toons, they love to help make a difference in how they improve other players in any game content, PVE and/or PVP. These are just examples of what is unfair. I have a Super Group filled with all kinds of Hero and Villain archetypes, but some may not play their favorite toon when it comes to PVP because of this system, they will have to compensate for something else they, and he or she may not really want to play which makes it less interesting. Presently, my fellow SG members and I are working on a PVP group for zones, arenas and so forth. Maybe even boast to other SG’s with the same interest.

I know it has been said more than once already but trust me, if the Devs took much more interest into PVP, the outcome will be greater than it is now. Maybe it won’t be overnight but in promising efforts into the future for the game. It is my favorite MMO and no other can compare, I would love for this issue/situation be looked into even if they have to hire a group or pull a group together that will do just that as far as enrolling themselves into PVP with regular accounts without having to dip into their budget (although it can be an improved investment).

It wasn't restricted to PVP, but rather to all questions.

We didn't really have a Q&A session as that was not the focus of the Player Summit. We instead focused on 2 workshops (design a power set, design a costume set) and a make your case workshop (zone revamp). The only Q&A sessions revolved around Lore and Story and the Paragon Market.

In short, PVP wasn't singled out. We didn't take questions about Powersets, AE, Bases, crafting, etc...It wasn't a topic open for discussion.

Will it be at further Summits? Who knows...it's possible.

We all know that PVP is not a priority for the development team. I've never blown smoke regarding that fact and will always be very up front with it. There's a multitude of reasons, but if I have to point at two:

• Once we start opening the Pandora's Box of PVP we cannot close it. PVP is a constant battle requiring constant tuning, power balancing, nerfing, buffing, etc, etc...To be honest, that's not our focus. We have limited numbers of Systems Designers and their primary focus is on creating new Powersets, proliferation and revisiting older Powersets (when there is time.)
• PVP activity is not a priority for the vast majority of our Community. Yes, I agree that the argument could be made that it's a symptom of the cause rather than the cause itself, however it is what it is. For better or worse, City of Heroes is a PVE centric game where (many, *not* all) players would rather the challenge of designing an amazing costume than duking it out in the arena.

As long as PvP wasn't singled out, than I'm happy.

Your response was straight forward and you're being very honest. Talking with PvPers casually and openly is enough to convince me it's not dead in this.

I thank the developer who gave us the arena options in their spare time, amazing work there. PvP may have lost a large portion if they weren't there.

If the developers ever need help with PvP suggestions, choices in balance etc. There'll be plenty of dedicated players that can help.


Your response is similar to what Positron said to me in person. A small section of resouces necessary for PvP to progress was really busy at the moment and typically is.

As long as the passion and ideas for PvP exist throughout the dev team, I'm sure it'll surface at one point or another.

In fact it was at PAX 2011 I asked Posi about it. You may remember me Z, you took away my drinking ticket at the bar near the beginning xD Good times.


Knowing a dev PvPs will encourage people to stay a bit.

If you ever need help with a specific build, you can always PM me. I dedicate a lot of time to making my builds perfect.

The devs have the right idea honestly. PvP isn't really worth it, we are a very small minority when it comes to the community and what we have? It works. Well enough.

I said (or echoed someone) during the last freedom league that I've had fun post i13 in all the leagues, ladders, tournaments, etc. Was it the same amount of fun when I PvP'ed back on infinity, with half a dozen SG's dedicated to zones + all the random solo people along with Kickball and things like that? Maybe not, but it was still entertaining to me to get some team arena matches going.

The dev team put time and effort into trying to attract a broad playerbase to PvP, it didn't work. Not everything is a success, but you work with what you have. Zones are playable, the bugs that exsist aren't for the most part completely crippling to the PvP system, team arena is playable, so while its not perfect (and i5-i12 was far from perfect) it works.

I'd rather see new powersets and new costumes (because playing dressup is amazingly fun) than see development time spent on a small fraction of the playerbase who has likely been here and won't be going anywhere seeing as how the changes that took place for the most part happened what? 2 or 3 years ago.

I appreciate the time you put into pvp Z, but it's really not worth it. The one chance this game had at developing a decent pvp community was destroyed. Unless its reverted back there really is no point. The people that still pvp will continue to. If they stayed through the nerf of i13 they'll be pvping until the game ends. You have them, no need to put sprinkles on crap.

Multimedia Genius Submission

Even a Half a Bone is sufficient to hold a raging dog at bay. The little bits of tweaks here and there does help many of us to maintain our PVP builds. But just like that raging dog we will be needing that other half of the bone sooner or later.....

Yeah, got to love that Rusty Nail talk

Mr. Zwillinger, you cannot imagine how pleased and satisfied I am with your response, your honesty and too, the efforts you guys put into the gaming content. I must say the changes you guys made regarding everything to PVE is superb. It has me on constant suspense mode of what is yet to come. Incarnates and Trials alone was and is a great interest and exciting. All the new and very considerable changes which make it very convenient to the players are priceless. Some newcomers do not realize the risk we had in trusting other players to transfer our items, influence/infamy from one character to another character on our accounts before CoH had the new email item/influence to @global-name feature way back when. I do truly appreciate all of your efforts and hard work and time you guys put in, I can’t thank you enough.

Now on the behalf of the other question, I am happy to know that you actually do PVP on a regular account. No need for your global name though, I would like to see you come thru Warburg here and there again like before, that was superb and exciting.
Times are precious and I know everything cannot be done over night. It takes time to do what you guys do and I am happy with that. The Incarnate system and its abilities do implement changes for the PVP community very well as is. It adds a bit of “ummf” to our builds making it much more interesting to tweak. We love our builds when it is finally done right, it may even take 3 to 12 builds to get that final touch. Incarnate Abilities adds nice puzzling pieces to sculpture an archetype to perfection but then again, it also takes skill to be successful at PVP, (which is a very complicated and delicate process to define, “successful”).

To the players that also responded, well done ... I feel, you and some of you who have read through this thread possess great knowledge on how some of the mechanics works and would love to help with what can be dealt with whenever it surface during those times ahead. I am not saying it will happen but knowing some of you are willing to work with the makers with it is well appreciated, too on my behalf. I've seen awesome charts posted by players who have based their mathematics and game numbers so others can get a better understanding of how things in the game works. Least but not last for those who have shared their info on how to create -"binds and macros". And those who put in their works on “Mids Hero designer” and keeping that updated periodically, these are all priceless efforts and very well appreciated too.

So, can we have the old Energy Melee set back for PVE? Specifically Energy Transfer. You know since PVP isn't currently a major development factor.

That would be like a whole new power set to a lot of folks with a fraction of the work. That should be okay with the dev team, right?

I wouldn’t say "never", Supermax. It won't happen overnight (if it happens). My question was ... if they, the developers, themselves actually play into the PVP content of the game. I am curious to know if they do (which Zwillinger admits he does on his own account) because if so, how do they feel about the present PVP system? Also, I would like to know if they actually team up together or not, attend arena challenges and so forth. Not to forget the hard work and lots of time put into making it into account for new issues and additions. With that said, I am wondering also if they are planning to implement somewhat changes with the remaining of the un-opened "Incarnate Abilities". Presently, the Incarnate abilities has made a nice impact towards the PVP community (IMO) whereas, change might not be as necessary as first thought (except for that Travel Suppression).