Wow. Stalker ATO is ruined now.
Woooooow.
I wouldn't say ruined....but now the whiners who play scrappers can stop complaining about being outdone. 
Don't I know you???
This is very bad for stalkers and for high-recharge stalkers in particular. Please PM Synapse and express your dismay for how this pummels the Stalker ATO proc when slotted in AS.
As a Kin/Eng stalker with gobs of recharge: "meh, it was fun while it lasted. I'll see how much things actually change when the time comes around and adjust."
Oh noes! 90% instead of 100% That just means occasionally you won't be able to get two crits off before the fight starts. Boo hoo.
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
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I thought I heard the jealousy of a Scrapper just now...|
Originally Posted by Pinny
Oh noes! 90% instead of 100% That just means occasionally you won't be able to get two crits off before the fight starts. Boo hoo.
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Might just be the wind.
The sarcasm scanner is off the charge!
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Originally Posted by Pinny
Oh noes! 90% instead of 100% That just means occasionally you won't be able to get two crits off before the fight starts. Boo hoo.
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You missed the part where it's going to proc off of current recharge, not base
in addition to the 90% cap
Yeah... No. This change is going to suck. Majorly.
DOOOOOOOOM
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And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
They say it'll be released by Issue 24, and I pray to god they change their minds about doing it, or at least leave the ATO procs untouched.
I've just started enjoying the AS to CU combo, and I'm loving it! Devs, please don't do this!
I built a 330+ dps Elec/EA stalker, and I have no issue with these changes.
Please people, eveyrone knew the PPM mechanic as implimented was stupid overpowered and anyone denying that either couldn't do math or is insincere.
They did say they are upping the PPM rate in light of the changes, and I have no issue whatsoever with a 70-90% chance to crit on my follow up attacks from AS.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Help me out here, because I just came back to the game after about three months off andI'm still trying to catch up. When I saw "Procs per Minute" I immediately thought "oh... they decoupled procs from the attack rate of a power?"
Now I see all this talk of base recharge and current recharge. Is PPM not really PPM right now? To me, if I see something that says "4 procs per minute" that says to me that it can only proc four times per minute max regardless of recharge rate. Is that not how it is now? Or is that how it is GOING to be after this next change? Or none of the above?
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I'm totally going to delete all of my stalkers now that the proc is changed. Like, for real.
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My stalker does stupid crazy damage, I knew it would not last. But these changes cover many of my toons, if not all of them, regardless of archetype. This I do not want.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I built a 330+ dps Elec/EA stalker, and I have no issue with these changes.
Please people, everyone knew the PPM mechanic as implimented was stupid overpowered and anyone denying that either couldn't do math or is insincere. They did say they are upping the PPM rate in light of the changes, and I have no issue whatsoever with a 70-90% chance to crit on my follow up attacks from AS. |
SLooks like, based on a Synapse post just a few moments ago, that we will be looking at about a 50% chance for high recharge builds. If I understood his post correctly. Which I may not have.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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Okay, disregard my previous post (if you weren't already). Found the article on Paragonwiki. I get it now.
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Yeah I am not too happy with what Synapse just stated though:|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
SLooks like, based on a Synapse post just a few moments ago, that we will be looking at about a 50% chance for high recharge builds. If I understood his post correctly. Which I may not have.
Lewis |
HERE
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Originally Posted by Synapse
I've read some good points in this thread and I wanted to let you know I am continuing to read all of your comments. I do want to stress that in most cases this change will increase proc chances. I'll give you guys some concrete numbers once I have them, but my internal examples I am using look pretty good.
Before we continue let me explain the math. There seems to be some confusion regarding how Procs Per Minute work. Here's the formula that is currently in game: If power is a click: (PPM * (Base Recharge Time + Time To Activate)) / (60 * Area Factor) This basically adds your Recharge Time and the power's Cast Time and Divides them by the 60 times the size of the power's area of effect (if any) and then multiplies it by the power's procs per minute. In short: powers with long recharge times and cast times proc more than powers with low recharge times and cast times. Additionally, powers with large area factors have a reduced chance to proc as well. If power is not a click: (PPM * Activate Period) / (60 * Area Factor) This applies to powers like damage toggles and the like. The proposed change would do the following: 1) Increase the PPM value by 50-75% (So a 4 PPM proc would become 6 or 7 PPM) NOTE: The exact amount is still being figured out. 2) Change the Base Recharge in the formula to your actual power's recharge. This is the part where I think a lot of you are scared. I'll show you an example of how this will actually play out in game later in this post so you can decide how much this will actually impact you. 3) Procs will have a maximum chance to trigger. I'm leaning toward 90%. Someone mentioned a minimum chance to proc. I really like this idea and I am thinking about this value being 10%, but I'll have to test this internally to find out if this breaks anything. 4) All non-PPM enhancements with a chance to trigger less than 100% will use PPMs. (Note: Enhancements like Numina's Convalesence: Regen/Recovery will not be affected by this change as they have 100% chance to trigger). Okay, now onto the example. Let's use Assassin's Strike slotted with Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide (Standard): CURRENT PPMs Assassin Strike Base Recharge: 15 seconds Cast Time: 1 second Area Factor: 1 Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide PPM: 4 Proc Chance: 106.7% PROPOSED PPMs Assassin Strike Base Recharge: 15 Cast Time: 1 second Area Factor Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide PPM: 6 0% Global Recharge/Power Recharge Proc Chance: 90% 0% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 86.9% 100% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 60.8% 200% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 48% 300% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 40.3% Superior Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide 0% Global Recharge/Power Recharge Proc Chance: 90% 0% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 90% 100% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 76.1% 200% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 60% 300% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 50.4% PPM: The above values are assuming we apply a 50% bonus to existing PPMs. You can use the formula I listed above to figure out how this will impact you. If you're confused how all of this works I am happy to answer questions. My goal here is to enlighten you all on the complex world of procs. Also, I am currently considering having a minimum chance to proc that scales with the enhancements Procs Per Minute if that is possible with the code. We'll have to see. Regards, Synapse |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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PPM is still PPM, however the PPM system accounts for the base recharge of the power it's slotted in and can force triggers given certain conditions.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Help me out here, because I just came back to the game after about three months off andI'm still trying to catch up. When I saw "Procs per Minute" I immediately thought "oh... they decoupled procs from the attack rate of a power?"
Now I see all this talk of base recharge and current recharge. Is PPM not really PPM right now? To me, if I see something that says "4 procs per minute" that says to me that it can only proc four times per minute max regardless of recharge rate. Is that not how it is now? Or is that how it is GOING to be after this next change? Or none of the above? |
a 4PPM item will always trigger when a power with a base 15 sec recharge is used.
60/4 = 15 this resulted in 100% Proc rates, but limited to 4 times a minute.
The 100% thing is being changed.
Stalekrs are upset, because the HIDDEN PROC in AS made us incredibly awesome, so much so that people asked the devs repeatedly if this was how it was supposed to work and being repeatedly told Yes it's WAI. Confident with the knowledge that this was WAI people based builds and attack chains of fof this. Now all of asudden it's not WAI.
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Try actually reading before you post 90% is the cap and its not even reachable with most IO builds since the power is now balanced on global recharge
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Originally Posted by Pinny
Oh noes! 90% instead of 100% That just means occasionally you won't be able to get two crits off before the fight starts. Boo hoo.
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There is a proposed change in the thread by Synapse later today that would make AS not really change much... still 88.5% (or similar) chance for it to proc in a 100% recharged AS.
Wait and see...It might not be that much of a nerf after all. I am sure that the constructive comments by people in the thread, however, contributed to Synapse re-considering things.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Well, it might be better to make all NEW SBE Procs work the way he wanted, but to change the ones they said were working as intended and shown in the thread they knew what they were doing and then to change them...terrible idea.
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Originally Posted by _Ail_
There is a proposed change in the thread by Synapse later today that would make AS not really change much... still 88.5% (or similar) chance for it to proc in a 100% recharged AS.
Wait and see...It might not be that much of a nerf after all. I am sure that the constructive comments by people in the thread, however, contributed to Synapse re-considering things. |
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The BrandX Collection
Not sure how this is going to affect Stalker's proc that much. The cap is 90% which is still very high and Stalker proc is the only one that you can't stack and has 10s restriction, so having even faster recharge on Assassin Strike doesn't make the proc happen more often.
I can see how it affects other ATO procs that can stack and quite frankly, some of them need to be tuned down a bit (dominator's?).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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the only way to be at 90% under the most recent revision would be to avoid slotting recharge into the power IIRC
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Not sure how this is going to affect Stalker's proc that much. The cap is 90% which is still very high and Stalker proc is the only one that you can't stack and has 10s restriction, so having even faster recharge on Assassin Strike doesn't make the proc happen more often.
I can see how it affects other ATO procs that can stack and quite frankly, some of them need to be tuned down a bit (dominator's?). |
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Jealousy of the Scrapper? New ATIO maybe?|
Originally Posted by Reppu
I thought I heard the jealousy of a Scrapper just now...
Might just be the wind. |
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hey i noticed this thread.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=288581
I think this might effect the stalker proc. also.
going to effect the chance for +5 energy performance shifter thats for sure.
The store ones got hammered but looks like the normal ones are going to be hammered as well.