Inf Supply: Idle Speculation
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2012-04-11 13:04 in The Market and Inventions
Every once in a while I get in a thread that reminds me why I put someone on "ignore."
There's no class in this particular smug self-congratulatory thread, but good job, Me Of Several Years Ago.
The rest of you, carry on.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Well there is a bit of merging of ideas in there. Separating them out we have wealth in the game vs perceived wealthy and poor characters in the comics.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
There are several comic book characters that are exceedingly wealthy (Bruce Wayne, Reed Richards [in a good year], Tony Stark, etc.) There is absolutely no reason wealth shouldn't be in the game and the market mini-game is an excellent tool to use for characters that have the "rich playboy" concept.
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I know many people that started playing the game because unlike other MMOs it didn't have "LEWT" the way other MMOs did. This was a selling point for them. Whether it should or should not be in the game isn't important, its here, and for the people that didn't want it, its not a plus.
As to the comic book characters of immense wealth, their wealth unlike wealth in the game is really unrelated to how powerful their characters are. Spiderman the poor reporter is every bit as effective as Iron Man the multibillionaire, Superman the poor reporter, easily outclasses, Bruce Wayne the billionaire. The wealth or poverty of comic book characters is usually little more than window dressing.
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| We've been told that the CoH loot system is time based. That's why story arcs and TFs have different numbers of merits awarded on their completion. I have absolutely no qualms with the players that spend their time earning their loot from the market instead of from running missions. If that floats their boat who am I to tell them they are doing it wrong and what's the chances they will listen anyway? |
Regarding the lewt system being time based that is its own can of worms. I would love to know what drugs were involved in designing the metrics. As things stand the system herds people into a narrow band of activities that are likely to burn them out on the game.
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I have completely outfitted a toon without using the market. It took me almost 4 times as long to do it that way. The CoH market is extremely easy to use. You can get good at it WAY faster than you can learn how to play a blaster well. The people that want IOs without expending any effort have an entitlement mentality I have no responsibility to them what so ever. Do what ever work that comes natural to you to earn your rewards or do without. That's what it boils down to. |
Anyone who actively markets has to be aware of the fact they are taking advantage of people that don't want to deal with the market. The immense amount of salvage on the market listed for 1 inf, the recipes listed for next to nothing aren't being put their by people looking to work the market, or maximize their profits. That is the behavior of people that don't want to deal with the market.
But surely, that is their choice, is it not?
After all, they could REALLY bypass the market by vending the salvage or recipes, making much more than expected return of 1 inf. The fact that these are available at all at the low price you suggest would seem to indicate that rather than avoiding the market, most people just choose not to bother learning how to work it effectively.
The common complaint I hear about the market is that the price of salvage is too high, not that the market exists at all.
I have heard many complaints about I/O's but none about the 'lewt' grind. Of course that is apocryphal evidence just as you own is and proves nothing but our personal experience.
The closest thing to 'lite gear has nothing to do with the market and everything to do with the incarnate system. I've never seen someone denied the chance to team because they weren't purple out with most expensive I/O's. But I know that some ITrial leaders will not accept toons who are not at least +2 level shifted for certain trials. In fact, many of them post on the forums and explain why they have these requirements.
If you measure your success by how much fun you have than the power that others have is meaningless. If you measure by ***** size (or if you PvP) then you might need to min/max your build.
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As has been pointed out to you multiple times before, you don't need "loot" at all to play this game. All the freebie accounts are doing without just fine and judging from the Justice server where I spend most of my time there are a plethora of new freebies playing. Loot is entirely transparent to them and judging from the enjoyment I am seeing from them, not missed in the least, quite a bit like it was for me back in I8.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well there is a bit of merging of ideas in there. Separating them out we have wealth in the game vs perceived wealthy and poor characters in the comics.
I know many people that started playing the game because unlike other MMOs it didn't have "LEWT" the way other MMOs did. This was a selling point for them. Whether it should or should not be in the game isn't important, its here, and for the people that didn't want it, its not a plus. |
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| As to the comic book characters of immense wealth, their wealth unlike wealth in the game is really unrelated to how powerful their characters are. Spiderman the poor reporter is every bit as effective as Iron Man the multibillionaire, Superman the poor reporter, easily outclasses, Bruce Wayne the billionaire. The wealth or poverty of comic book characters is usually little more than window dressing. |
Ironman would be absolutely nothing without his high tech toys.
Much of this is easily replicable with IO set bonuses.
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| Well judging by their actions neither do the devs. At least that is what I take away from them taking so many steps to let people bypass the market. A market that was the most complained about feature of the game for a very substantial period. |
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| Regarding the lewt system being time based that is its own can of worms. I would love to know what drugs were involved in designing the metrics. As things stand the system herds people into a narrow band of activities that are likely to burn them out on the game. |
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| None of my post was commentary on how difficult or easy it was to use the market or is to use. It is a statement about what people want from their entertainment and how they approach the game. |
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| Anyone who actively markets has to be aware of the fact they are taking advantage of people that don't want to deal with the market. The immense amount of salvage on the market listed for 1 inf, the recipes listed for next to nothing aren't being put their by people looking to work the market, or maximize their profits. That is the behavior of people that don't want to deal with the market. |
Also there are lots of reasons people list things for 1 inf. I do it with common salvage. I can use /auctionhouse between missions and list all of the common salvage I have for 1 inf. I don't have to take it to a store, I don't have to simply delete something that someone else might want to make room in my salvage bag, I usually (but not always) make more than I would selling it to a vendor, and it usually is all sold by the time I finish my next mission.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I am sorry but that is flat out wrong and I can cite examples.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
As has been pointed out to you multiple times before, you don't need "loot" at all to play this game. All the freebie accounts are doing without just fine and judging from the Justice server where I spend most of my time there are a plethora of new freebies playing. Loot is entirely transparent to them and judging from the enjoyment I am seeing from them, not missed in the least, quite a bit like it was for me back in I8.
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1. You can't advance your character beyond SO/HO levels of power without access to lewt be it incarnate pieces or inventions.
2. The ability to solo parts of the game becomes nearly nonexistent for many ATs and less than optimal powersets.
This use of "Need" has always struck me as a meme that was initially promulgated by people that liked the market and wanted to silence people that didn't.
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A bit of hyperbole there. Where would Batman be without the Batmobile? All the money he spent on his high tech gadgets? He'd be a pretty plain SJ/Invul scrapper. Ironman would be absolutely nothing without his high tech toys. Much of this is easily replicable with IO set bonuses. |
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| I like more options. A excellent example for me is prices on Rare salvage. If they are at or above a certain level and stay that way then I use tickets to buy the salvage instead. Its actually a valid economic force. It prevents the market from being a monopoly much like in the real world. Think food prices are too high? Plant a garden. |
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| Not really, the very above thing that you are complaining about is a safety valve for that kind of behavior. Certain things are more efficient in certain areas. Since you need components from all those activities you diversify your time or, if one of those activities is something you don't care to do you can go back to the market and avoid it. It just gives you more options. |
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| Preposterous. People who don't want to deal with the market simply don't. Anyone I sell something to OFFERED the amount of influence I received when I sold something, even if I only asked for 1 inf for it. |
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| Also there are lots of reasons people list things for 1 inf. I do it with common salvage. I can use /auctionhouse between missions and list all of the common salvage I have for 1 inf. I don't have to take it to a store, I don't have to simply delete something that someone else might want to make room in my salvage bag, I usually (but not always) make more than I would selling it to a vendor, and it usually is all sold by the time I finish my next mission. |
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Well that statement there is demonstrably just plain wrong.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I am not speaking of just common anything. Nearly everything on the market is being listed at 1 inf.
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If 'nearly everything' was being listed at 1 inf, then a bid of 2 inf would buy you 'nearly anything' that had stock listed.
Go on, place some 2 inf bids on, oh let's see... Level 50 Generic Endurance Cost and Recharge Reduction IO's, Pangean Soil, Temporal Tracers, Level 30 Generic Defence Buff IO's, Level 50 Red Fortune Defence/Recharge Recipes and for garnish, some Ancestral Weapon base salvage. Oh, and put some bids on for a couple of Ultimate and Good Luck Inspirations while you're there. I'll wait...
I picked those choices out of the air as I'm not logged into the game at the moment, and can't check supply/bids on them, so I picked things that I'm assuming have listed stock available, and that came to mind, so make of that selection what you will.
I'll keep an eye on this thread so that when your bids have filled, you can post proof.
If they don't fill in oh, let's say a week; and there're still items in those categories for sale, then that means that the items listed are listed for more than the bids placed on said items.
Oh and a piece of anecdata too - I personally NEVER list anything for 1 inf on the market. If the going rate for something on the market is less than vendor price then I vendor it.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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A bid of 1 inf will only buy you something that is listed for 1 inf if there are no bids outstanding for more than 1 inf. |
Originally Posted by Canine
Well that statement there is demonstrably just plain wrong. If 'nearly everything' was being listed at 1 inf, then a bid of 2 inf would buy you 'nearly anything' that had stock listed. |
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| Go on, place some 2 inf bids on, oh let's see... Level 50 Generic Endurance Cost and Recharge Reduction IO's, Pangean Soil, Temporal Tracers, Level 30 Generic Defence Buff IO's, Level 50 Red Fortune Defence/Recharge Recipes and for garnish, some Ancestral Weapon base salvage. Oh, and put some bids on for a couple of Ultimate and Good Luck Inspirations while you're there. I'll wait... |
How much would you like to bet those 567inf sales were listed for 1 inf ? Certainly no more than 11 inf.
I see from where this is going I better grab some screenshots of my stored inf, for when the inevitable, "You are poor, you don't know how the market works, you are resentful of people doing better on the market", comments raise their heads.
Fine. I've been trolled. Pat yourself on the Superdine-enhanced back.
A_F, you bring up the same tired dung about once a year in the belief that it will get you farther this time than it did last time.
Unsourced statement that "most" people agree with you about the market? Check.
Moving the goalposts when called on your spurious statements? Check.
Claim that people playing on SO's are doing badly ? Check. When called on that, "doing badly" in ever-narrowing sets of circumstances? ... well, let's see about that.
I have several level-locked support characters - L30 to 33- and at least two of them are on either SO's or generic IO's. These are characters made for Midlevel Crisis back when I was making midlevel IO's by joining big teams and doing TFs. I recently made a fair bit of money auctioning off batches of recipes gotten by doing the Signature arcs.
Which I, generally, soloed. On such famous buttkicking soloers as a L33 sonic/dark defender, a L30 emp/sonic defender (SO's _and_ no vet attacks!) and a L35 ff/sonic defender. I can imagine you might have some trouble soloing on SO's if you kicked your diff up higher than +1/0 and you were playing a weaker soloer than those, though.
I've never been bothered that you were short on inf; more that you were stubborn, stupid and incapable of addressing other people's actual points, so you lied about what they said.
... Would you like me to go back to your previous attempts to make these claims, all of which went more or less the same way? We have a several-year archive here, it would be a shame not to use it.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Fullmens how in god's name would I expect to get any farther with people people who think their best way of debating is bragging that they have their fingers in their ears, eyes covered and are shouting at their top of their lungs just in case something might get through.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Fine. I've been trolled. Pat yourself on the Superdine-enhanced back.
A_F, you bring up the same tired dung about once a year in the belief that it will get you farther this time than it did last time. |
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| Unsourced statement that "most" people agree with you about the market? Check. |
Or do you even process your own statements of the form "I found most people were willing to agree with me about how wonderful the market after a burnt hundreds of millions to billions boosting their SG's prestige"
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| Moving the goalposts when called on your spurious statements? Check. |
It was amusing as all heck to see this forum shout people down with a word they didn't know the meaning of.
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| Claim that people playing on SO's are doing badly ? Check. When called on that, "doing badly" in ever-narrowing sets of circumstances? ... well, let's see about that. |
What I said
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1. You can't advance your character beyond SO/HO levels of power without access to lewt be it incarnate pieces or inventions. 2. The ability to solo parts of the game becomes nearly nonexistent for many ATs and less than optimal powersets. |
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| I've never been bothered that you were short on inf; more that you were stubborn, stupid and incapable of addressing other people's actual points, so you lied about what they said |
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Yes, I know. And I gave you a 100% extra bonus leeway free of charge to make life a little easier for you.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
A bid of 1 inf will only buy you something that is listed for 1 inf if there are no bids outstanding for more than 1 inf.
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Also, if thing are being listed at 1 inf, then how are there unfilled bids? The mere existence of unfilled bids means that things are listed for more than one inf, thus shooting a gaping hole in the assertion that I took aim at.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
How much would you like to bet those 567inf sales were listed for 1 inf ? Certainly no more than 11 inf. |
Get a screenshot of almost all of the items I mentioned with a successful bid of 1 or 2 inf and then I will accept that 'Nearly everything' is being listed at 1 inf.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I see from where this is going I better grab some screenshots of my stored inf, for when the inevitable, "You are poor, you don't know how the market works, you are resentful of people doing better on the market", comments raise their heads.
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I also didn't address the 'need' for IO's, or anything else you seem to be going on about.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
Aaaaaaand another thread goes off the rails. It's really the best idea to not respond to the troll.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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<sigh> I know, but eventually I can't resist the idiocy any more. It's a failing, Mea Culpa |
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Aaaaaaand another thread goes off the rails. It's really the best idea to not respond to the troll.
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I don't really have anything sensible to add to the total inf supply discussion, mainly because I accepted long ago that there are so many different ways of playing and enjoying the game that all you can do is get an order of magnitude best guess going.
For example, I've never farmed AE tickets, I don't run back to back WST's or TF's for merits, I don't use converters to upgrade IOs and I don't grind out tips for AM's, yet I've still racked up about 60Bn liquid inf that is stored mostly on my alts, so 48Bn of it just won't appear on the auctions. The inf that can't be held on my 24 alts *is*, however, stored as bids on IO's.
Which means that for the purposes of estimating inf supply, 4/5ths of the liquid inf that I hold is invisible to any tools those making estimates have access to.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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Originally Posted by Canine
Yes, I know. And I gave you a 100% extra bonus leeway free of charge to make life a little easier for you.
Also, if thing are being listed at 1 inf, then how are there unfilled bids? The mere existence of unfilled bids means that things are listed for more than one inf, thus shooting a gaping hole in the assertion that I took aim at. |
# listed at 1 / day = 10
# bit at 100 / day = 15
If the rate of listing is less than the rate of bids you will never see the 1 inf sale. The fact that people are listing well below obvious minimum bids and higher amounts are attainable is proof they aren't trying to extract max or reasonable value from the market.
Go back to school, this time around actually pay attention in math class.
nice to see A_F still deserves his place on my ignore list!
Keep up the good work, my invisible, logic-challenged friend!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Glad to see your posts are still up to their usual level of quality.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
nice to see A_F still deserves his place on my ignore list!
Keep up the good work, my invisible, logic-challenged friend! |
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Do you not grasp how stupid a statement this is?|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
1. You can't advance your character beyond SO/HO levels of power without access to lewt be it incarnate pieces or inventions.
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Let me rephrase it for you: "You can't advance your character beyond one level of loot without access to the next level of loot."
If IO's count as 'loot', then so do SO's and HO's. Do you not grasp that?
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Can you walk into the vanguard base and slap down 100k for a Mako's bite ? 1 million inf ? They are two fundamentally different categories of item. One involves a minigame that people may or may not want to play, the other involves a reasonably deterministic rate of advancement based on just playing.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Do you not grasp how stupid a statement this is?
Let me rephrase it for you: "You can't advance your character beyond one level of loot without access to the next level of loot." If IO's count as 'loot', then so do SO's and HO's. Do you not grasp that? |
If you doubt people dislike random reward rates or grinding to get a drop I refer you to this thread.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=258774
51 pages of people complaining about just that.
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Nonsense.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Anyone who actively markets has to be aware of the fact they are taking advantage of people that don't want to deal with the market. The immense amount of salvage on the market listed for 1 inf, the recipes listed for next to nothing aren't being put their by people looking to work the market, or maximize their profits. That is the behavior of people that don't want to deal with the market.
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The other day I was hanging about Freedom Atlas Park and joined some PuG level 37 Arena. One guy was on a Kat/SR and wanted to find out more, so I went onto the long spiel and explained he might need such and such an IO, run Hero Tips and you can get them...or cash in Reward Merits on the Market to get more inf to purchase said items.
Though we were just outside the Vanguard base under some huge HVAS, none of us were seized by the SEC and thrown into the brig. Just to point out that if you are actively bidding on something on the Market, you are cognizant of both IOs and the Market. If you are simply dumping all your stuff for 1 then either you have excess stuff or you don't care.
Heck, Dread Shinobi on Champion has about a zillion tricked out alts, knows how to use the Market and STILL lists at 1 when he sells, just so he can get back to playing. And guess what? He STILL makes billions that way.
There is no dark conspiracy afoot. The market is a mini-game like so many others, it cheats nor steals from anyone, simply redistributing wealth and goods with a tax.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Indeed, I don't believe the amount of salvage listed for 1 inf is particularly indicative of anyone being taken advantage of. I list my high-level common and uncommon salvage for that (basically), because that stuff is massively oversupplied. The only reason I list the stuff at all is because it gives me badges that increase my market slot count, and if I list it for much more, it won't sell.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Except the devs themselves. The devs have tossed out numbers that imply the amount of influence in the game is on the order of about 100 trillion inf. The question is whether that estimate is correct. One possible source of error is the devs could have merely counted only the amount of influence stored on characters (a relatively easy thing to datamine), and not included influence that exists not on characters, such as in global mail and stored in the market in various forms.|
Originally Posted by Canine
Which means that for the purposes of estimating inf supply, 4/5ths of the liquid inf that I hold is invisible to any tools those making estimates have access to.
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If we assume there's three major likely pools of influence - character storage, market transactions, and global email - if we assume the devs at least counted character storage, that leaves global email and the markets. We don't have good visibility into global email storage, but the combination of the limited number of storage messages and the expiration of those messages make them a poor long term storage method. Its likely that amount of influence is low relative to the amount stored in the markets, presuming the amount in the markets is significant. That leaves the markets themselves.
So formulating a decent estimate of how much influence is likely to exist in the markets is useful for constraining the sources for possible error on the part of the devs' influence reporting.
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the business aphorism "price to sell, not to keep" applies here.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Indeed, I don't believe the amount of salvage listed for 1 inf is particularly indicative of anyone being taken advantage of. I list my high-level common and uncommon salvage for that (basically), because that stuff is massively oversupplied. The only reason I list the stuff at all is because it gives me badges that increase my market slot count, and if I list it for much more, it won't sell.
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I list all my salvage for 1 inf. Some of it sells for hundreds of thousands or a few million, some sells for 5...It doesn't matter, because the value of my slots far surpasses whatever minuscule profit I'd eek out by pricing stuff what it's "worth" and tying up said slot for a period of time.
Hard to believe we still have to explain these fundamental realities of supply and demand to some people at this late stage of the game.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I actually meant those making estimates in this thread 
I'm now idly wondering how much inf is taken out of circulation by people leaving the game.
It's not as thoroughly gone as it used to be when you HAD to pay to play and if someone stopped paying, then their stuff was effectively gone, but if/when a particularly well off player stops playing, how much of a dent, if any, does it make in the inf supply? By which I mean, are there enough players with enough of a bankroll and enough activity to have any effect at all by not playing?
For example, if I was to stop playing, I'd have next to no effect on inf supply, because I don't spend any on the markets. That's why I've got the amount I do, I make it but don't spend it (which is probably an aberrant/atypical play pattern, but <shrug> ).
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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If you are talking about influence in circulation as opposed to simply existing, then I think the influence whales aren't really influence sinks when they quit in a net sense. And the reason is exactly what you mention: that most players accumulating influence at a relatively high rate is likely to be accumulating influence faster than they are creating it, which means they are a net influence sink while they are playing in the first place. Quitting takes that influence "out of circulation" but its debatable as to whether it was genuinely in circulation in the first place. The people who reduce the pool of circulating influence are the spenders, not the hoarders, when they leave the game. More specifically, its the people who create influence through gameplay and then spend it that contribute the most to increasing the total amount of circulating influence in the game.
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Originally Posted by Canine
I actually meant those making estimates in this thread
I'm now idly wondering how much inf is taken out of circulation by people leaving the game. It's not as thoroughly gone as it used to be when you HAD to pay to play and if someone stopped paying, then their stuff was effectively gone, but if/when a particularly well off player stops playing, how much of a dent, if any, does it make in the inf supply? By which I mean, are there enough players with enough of a bankroll and enough activity to have any effect at all by not playing? For example, if I was to stop playing, I'd have next to no effect on inf supply, because I don't spend any on the markets. That's why I've got the amount I do, I make it but don't spend it (which is probably an aberrant/atypical play pattern, but <shrug> ). |
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
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Heck, Dread Shinobi on Champion has about a zillion tricked out alts, knows how to use the Market and STILL lists at 1 when he sells, just so he can get back to playing. And guess what? He STILL makes billions that way. |
You realize you just agreed with what I said ?
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| Anyone who actively markets has to be aware of the fact they are taking advantage of people that don't want to deal with the market. The immense amount of salvage on the market listed for 1 inf, the recipes listed for next to nothing aren't being put their by people looking to work the market, or maximize their profits. That is the behavior of people that don't want to deal with the market. |
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Originally Posted by Canine
Yes, I know. And I gave you a 100% extra bonus leeway free of charge to make life a little easier for you.
Also, if thing are being listed at 1 inf, then how are there unfilled bids? The mere existence of unfilled bids means that things are listed for more than one inf, thus shooting a gaping hole in the assertion that I took aim at. |
Unfortunately, I have the misfortune of having a raving lunatic uttering the following statement in agreement with me and proving their lunacy with the following.
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| There is no dark conspiracy afoot. The market is a mini-game like so many others, it cheats nor steals from anyone, simply redistributing wealth and goods with a tax. |
The entitlement sword is one that cuts at least three ways. People who can work the market feel entitled to enhancement because they can work the market, people who play the game, in the simple manner of running missions with their friends feel entitled because they do that, people who farm and generate the resources everyone else uses feel entitled for doing that. Everyone feels entitled. Back when everyone was complaining the market was the only game in town, unfortunately the devs were looking at the people screaming loudly against a better more efficient market and went "OKEY DOKEY" we won't change the market but you aren't getting your grubby hands on new stuff. Now we have all this bind on acquire crud.
The inclusion of tickets, and merits are undoubtedly what has had the greatest impact on quelling the dislike of the market. These days it is relatively doable to outfit a character completely bypassing the market
We've been told that the CoH loot system is time based. That's why story arcs and TFs have different numbers of merits awarded on their completion. I have absolutely no qualms with the players that spend their time earning their loot from the market instead of from running missions. If that floats their boat who am I to tell them they are doing it wrong and what's the chances they will listen anyway?
I have completely outfitted a toon without using the market. It took me almost 4 times as long to do it that way.
The CoH market is extremely easy to use. You can get good at it WAY faster than you can learn how to play a blaster well. The people that want IOs without expending any effort have an entitlement mentality I have no responsibility to them what so ever.
Do what ever work that comes natural to you to earn your rewards or do without. That's what it boils down to.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson