Why fixing Hami-Os was a horrible idea and what can be done to correct it
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-03-29 08:43 in Suggestions and Ideas
I agree that this long overdue bug fix might have had the unintended side-effect of making Hami raids less desirable to do. Of course it could be said if the Devs had fixed these several years ago then we would have already been long past the negative impact this change was bound to cause. 
Regardless of the bug and its fix I have long suggested the idea that Hami-Os should be raised back up to their original 50% values. I understand why they were nerfed down all those years ago, but the reasons why that nerf was necessary no longer apply. For one thing we now live under the rule of Enhancement Diversity so 50% Hami-Os can no longer be considered "overpowered" in any power. And since the introduction of the Enhancement Boosters we can now get enhancements boosted over 50% anyway. How can 50% Hami-Os be considered unrealistic in this current environment?
The ultimate benefit of restoring the original values to the Hami-Os would be to make Hami raids worth doing again.
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Another way is to increase Hami O's in the game.
For instance a lvl 10 hami-o drop from DFB.
A lvl 30 or 35 Hami drop from the flying hami in First Ward.
Turn in Vanguard merits for synth hami's (35 or 50) in RWZ.
Then have the power of the hami increase as you have more Hami's in it.
1 hami = power x1
2 hami = power of each x1.1
----
6 hami = power of each x1.5
Just thinking outside the box.
Make HOs exempt from the effects of ED by 50%, but only allow one HO per power.
That way the power users can use them to 'top off' a power, but it costs them a slot.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
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There's nothing wrong with these ideas but these things would involve a relatively large amount of code to implement. A suggestion like mine simply involves changing the enhancement values of existing Hami-Os back to their original values. If I were a Dev I know which solution I'd more likely be willing to do...|
Originally Posted by GPBunny
Another way is to increase Hami O's in the game.
For instance a lvl 10 hami-o drop from DFB. A lvl 30 or 35 Hami drop from the flying hami in First Ward. Turn in Vanguard merits for synth hami's (35 or 50) in RWZ. Then have the power of the hami increase as you have more Hami's in it. 1 hami = power x1 2 hami = power of each x1.1 ---- 6 hami = power of each x1.5 Just thinking outside the box. |
It's the classic K.I.S.S. principle - the easier the suggestion the more likely it is to happen.
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I still have a couple of alts who use multiple Hami-Os slotted in particular powers (most notably Enzymes in Radiation Infection).|
Originally Posted by Suspicious_Pkg
Make HOs exempt from the effects of ED by 50%, but only allow one HO per power.
That way the power users can use them to 'top off' a power, but it costs them a slot. |
I would absolutely hate any change that would limit us to only one Hami-O per power.
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I have an idea that wont be popular..
Stop whining about an exploit that people knew about.. the devs said they knew about it and that it would be fixed.. and then when it was eventually fixed complain that what you KNEW was broken and used to your benefit was REMOVED..
Get over it.. Hami-O's are fine the way they are.. I use them on almost every character I have..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
hami raids to me have always been kinda awful rewards, the only "good" reward that i can use is the 53 reward merits
why bother getting an HO from a hami raid when i can do a LRSF/STF with 8 poeple and finish in less time with less effort? (less time cause i include forming)
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For what it's worth I have never "whined" about this bug fix. In fact I've expected this fix for so long that I NEVER exploited this bug because I ALWAYS assumed that the fix for it was going to happen "any time now".|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I have an idea that wont be popular..
Stop whining about an exploit that people knew about.. the devs said they knew about it and that it would be fixed.. and then when it was eventually fixed complain that what you KNEW was broken and used to your benefit was REMOVED.. Get over it.. Hami-O's are fine the way they are.. I use them on almost every character I have.. |
I realize there are plenty of people whining about the bug fix. I am NOT one of them and never have been.
My suggestion that the Hami-O values be restored back to their original 50% values has always been independent of the bug and its ramifications. I have felt that ever since ED was established there was no need for that nerf to remain and I've always felt that 50% Hami-Os would generally benefit everyone with greater interest in Hami raids.
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this
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Originally Posted by lothic
i agree that this long overdue bug fix might have had the unintended side-effect of making hami raids less desirable to do. Of course it could be said if the devs had fixed these several years ago then we would have already been long past the negative impact this change was bound to cause.
regardless of the bug and its fix i have long suggested the idea that hami-os should be raised back up to their original 50% values. I understand why they were nerfed down all those years ago, but the reasons why that nerf was necessary no longer apply. For one thing we now live under the rule of enhancement diversity so 50% hami-os can no longer be considered "overpowered" in any power. And since the introduction of the enhancement boosters we can now get enhancements boosted over 50% anyway. How can 50% hami-os be considered unrealistic in this current environment? The ultimate benefit of restoring the original values to the hami-os would be to make hami raids worth doing again. |
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Nobody is whining that the exploit was fixed. I'm merely pointing out that without that exploit there is no longer a reason to go on Hami raids or use the HO enhancements. They are not fine the way they are because you can get the same benefit by slotting an IO and get set bonuses as well from IOs. If you choose to continue using them that's your decision. But it's one that will cost you (or whoever is selling the HOs you buy) an incredibly disproportionate amount of time and effort.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
I have an idea that wont be popular..
Stop whining about an exploit that people knew about.. the devs said they knew about it and that it would be fixed.. and then when it was eventually fixed complain that what you KNEW was broken and used to your benefit was REMOVED.. Get over it.. Hami-O's are fine the way they are.. I use them on almost every character I have.. |
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
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i never did hami raids for HOs to begin with, but i wouldnt go so far to say that HOs are completely unusable in their current state|
Originally Posted by Vauluur
Nobody is whining that the exploit was fixed. I'm merely pointing out that without that exploit there is no longer a reason to go on Hami raids or use the HO enhancements. They are not fine the way they are because you can get the same benefit by slotting an IO and get set bonuses as well from IOs. If you choose to continue using them that's your decision. But it's one that will cost you (or whoever is selling the HOs you buy) an incredibly disproportionate amount of time and effort.
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membrane HOs still can fir the role of helping get perma mind link since the rech component still reduces mind link rech (and the dom APP version link minds)
they are also still good for poeple who would rather frankenslot than use a set in a certain power, ect, since some HOs can fill holes that most IOs cant
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Its risk vs reward, and the risk involved for a hamiO just isn't worth it. Not to mention the time and effort it takes to run a hami raid. Sure they are useful, just not enough to be worth it for most people. Now more than ever.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I have an idea that wont be popular..
Stop whining about an exploit that people knew about.. the devs said they knew about it and that it would be fixed.. and then when it was eventually fixed complain that what you KNEW was broken and used to your benefit was REMOVED.. Get over it.. Hami-O's are fine the way they are.. I use them on almost every character I have.. |
The increase in value to 50% sounds like the best idea so far. That would make them much more desireable to me.
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I would argue (along the lines of what Necrotech_Master and SmegHead were saying) that there was almost no serious motivation to do Hami raids -regardless- of people exploiting the Hami-O bug or not. There's only a very small subset of powers that Hami-Os are useful in, and for those it's been easier to get SHOs for years.|
Originally Posted by Vauluur
Nobody is whining that the exploit was fixed. I'm merely pointing out that without that exploit there is no longer a reason to go on Hami raids or use the HO enhancements. They are not fine the way they are because you can get the same benefit by slotting an IO and get set bonuses as well from IOs. If you choose to continue using them that's your decision. But it's one that will cost you (or whoever is selling the HOs you buy) an incredibly disproportionate amount of time and effort.
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Again for what it's worth I've been suggesting that HOs get restored to their original 50% values pretty much since ED happened. The only reason they were nerfed in the first place was that they were too powerful -before- ED was in place to control them. I have always felt that if HOs were restored to their former glory that there would be far more interest in Hami raids to get them.
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if they did do that it would make some sense since actual HOs should theoretically be more powerful than synthetic versions
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Again for what it's worth I've been suggesting that HOs get restored to their original 50% values pretty much since ED happened. The only reason they were nerfed in the first place was that they were too powerful -before- ED was in place to control them. I have always felt that if HOs were restored to their former glory that there would be far more interest in Hami raids to get them.
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Wouldn't Hydra-Os be more appropriate for DFB?
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Originally Posted by GPBunny
For instance a lvl 10 hami-o drop from DFB.
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@Roderick
Or... make them act like IOs in that they can be Boosted and Converted.
And... make Hydro-O's and Titan-O's be Attuned so that they don't become worthless two days after you get them.
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I wasnt directing this at you... It was toward the populace in general
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Originally Posted by Lothic
For what it's worth I have never "whined" about this bug fix. In fact I've expected this fix for so long that I NEVER exploited this bug because I ALWAYS assumed that the fix for it was going to happen "any time now".
I realize there are plenty of people whining about the bug fix. I am NOT one of them and never have been. My suggestion that the Hami-O values be restored back to their original 50% values has always been independent of the bug and its ramifications. I have felt that ever since ED was established there was no need for that nerf to remain and I've always felt that 50% Hami-Os would generally benefit everyone with greater interest in Hami raids. |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I don't think I have ever seen anyone attempt to form a team to kill the flying Hamidon in the First Ward. Ever. So I doubt lvl 30 Hami-O's is enough to motivate anyone to do it.
I do beleive at some point in the future, Hamidon (whether it's Primal and/or Praetorian) will be back in the spotlight... Soon. Perhaps the devs will consider an upgrade of Hami-O's then.
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lvl 30 HOs would be about as popular as titan or hydra Os, nobody would ever want or care about them really unless as zombie man suggests and they make them attuned
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Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
I don't think I have ever seen anyone attempt to form a team to kill the flying Hamidon in the First Ward. Ever. So I doubt lvl 30 Hami-O's is enough to motivate anyone to do it.
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What I find funny about these posts is that it talks about fixing Hami-O's PLURAL as if there is something wrong with ALL Hami-O's when the REAL issue is the one with the bug exploit that was fixed.
Been using Hami's since day one.. have em on lots of characters.. Often use them to save slots on powers or to finish off something ( like adding a Nucleo to a blast set that uses 5 Decimation but falls a little short on damage and gets an accuracy boost )
Im on the totally opposite side.. I think Hami-O's work just fine the way they are and dont need to be enhanced or boosted..
And I would also say that one other reason that Hami raids are probably being run less is the new incarnate zone and everyone leveling Dark and Beast mastery toons.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I still love Hami-Os as the only source in the game where I can get mez boost + damage in 1 enhancement. Seriously, all this time in the game, there's no single IO set that boosts both atrributes. What's up with that? Sooo many control powers have damage baked in, yet -all- mezz sets (EVEN THE ATOS!) don't enhance damage. So weird.
I would just make a Hamdion Orgin set that drops from Hamidon which would be good for everyone
I'm on board for restoring them to their original 50% values.
For those who are not aware, Hamidon Origin enhancements (Hami-Os) were recently fixed to remove a long standing bug that had allowed them to enhance unintended effects. For a example, a Defense Debuff Hami-O that could be slotted into a Defense power would enhance Defense. This bug allowed higher enhancement values to be slotted into powers using Hami-Os than any other method and made the enhancements highly desirable for players like myself that design high-performance builds. This, in turn, made Hami-Os desirable for everyone because they sold for very good prices on the market. Therefore, players were adequately rewarded for the time and effort they put in to take down Hamidon. With the bug fixed, that all goes away. You essentially are putting in all the effort of a Hamidon raid to get a random IO that doesn't give a set bonus. Since the change it has certainly been much harder to get a raid together on Guardian than it used to be. I don't know if that is the case on other servers. Something needs to be done to make Hami-Os worth it again.
Therefore I suggest one of the following be done:
1.) Hami-Os have their enhancement value increased, restoring there use in high end builds.
2.) Hami-Os be changed into unique procs that are uncommon or not found in IO sets.
3.) Hami-Os award powerful set bonuses when slotted into the same power as other Hami-Os.
I'm not sure which of these are possible with the game's technology, but I personally favor turning them into procs. Anyone else have comments or ideas?
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian