when will scrappers get makeover


Alef_infinity

 

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Originally Posted by GreenFIame View Post
Wow Really, I am Defending Scrapper for one reason, there Damage is better then a brute and two Survivability is better then a Stalker and they are the only Arctype with a Critical strike in the Melee Arctype Set.
Ummmm, no.

Stalkers get Criticals too, and they do it better.

They get a 10% base chance to land a critical when not Hidden (scrappers get a 5% chance), and that chance gets increased for each teammate within 30 feet of them. The base chance goes up when the target's rank goes up.

Honestly, if Scrappers got the critical bonus for teammates being nearby, I'd be happy as hell with that. They wouldn't even need a buff to the base chance.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Anecdote:

I have a claw/inv scrapper that I rolled up prior to issue one. I have played that toon to death, even through the debacles of all the nerfs. (tele-scrapping. bleaaahh)

I rolled up a claw/inv brute when the games got merged. I have since leveled it to 50 and got a good build on it.

I've run them both a LOT, both with good to great builds, and the brute is the better toon.

If you don't believe my obviously unscientific methods, do it for yourself. There's lots of combos to choose from. The only scrappers that have any noticeable edge over any brute build are the ones that gain lots of pseudopet damage. I love me my elec/elec, for example.


 

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I dont understand this "scrappers suck now, fix scrappers" sort of thinking. If you think brutes and stalkers are better than scrappers, play them. You are not stuck playing the one AT that you hate. I prefer scrappers because they are the no BS, no gimmicks AT that just kicks *** right out of the box. If you disagree, just go chase your brute fury and STFU.


 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Because certain people despite admitting this fact still have to carry on the crusade of 4chan. I suspect it is just a veiled extension of the general anti-social 4chan ish behavior that is pervasive on the net these days, especially in gaming forums.
OMG WT3ff! Who's 4chan? Why are you bringing it up constantly!? Maybe you're the 4chaner here, all passively aggressively trying to get under people's skins.

Geeze, am I the only one trying to ignore that particular comment because I don't know or care what it means yet it's constantly being pushed in people's faces?


 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
OMG WT3ff! Who's 4chan? Why are you bringing it up constantly!? Maybe you're the 4chaner here, all passively aggressively trying to get under people's skins.

Geeze, am I the only one trying to ignore that particular comment because I don't know or care what it means yet it's constantly being pushed in people's faces?
4chan is the armpit of the internet. It's an imageboard full of racism, pornography, sexism, stoners, 12-year-olds, wannabe hackers, and memes. If you aren't easily offended, it's hilarious as well.

I'm really not sure why people keep bringing it up in regards to this thread though. So far I haven't seen any trap threads, pony threads, porn, racism, lolis, infothreads, stoner threads, or hacker threads, so there's really nothing here that has anything to do with 4chan.


 

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Well racism is just an American tradition, like apple pie and baseball. Don't mind stoners myself although they get boring after a while...can definitely use some porn in here. The rest? Meh, take it back.


 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Ummmm, no.

Stalkers get Criticals too, and they do it better.

They get a 10% base chance to land a critical when not Hidden (scrappers get a 5% chance), and that chance gets increased for each teammate within 30 feet of them. The base chance goes up when the target's rank goes up.

Honestly, if Scrappers got the critical bonus for teammates being nearby, I'd be happy as hell with that. They wouldn't even need a buff to the base chance.
If The Dev don't see nothing wrong with the power set, then they won't fix the Arctype.

If you Don't like Scrappers then don't play them, People still play them well, there for I don't see them Improving them any time soon.

They Still do there Job Well, Scrappers Still one the best Arctype Melee Set, They can Solo well, On 8 +4 Mobs they can Still Clean up the trash well and can do that without dieing.


Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFIame View Post
If The Dev don't see nothing wrong with the power set, then they won't fix the Arctype.

If you Don't like Scrappers then don't play them, People still play them well, there for I don't see them Improving them any time soon.

They Still do there Job Well, Scrappers Still one the best Arctype Melee Set, They can Solo well, On 8 +4 Mobs they can Still Clean up the trash well and can do that without dieing.
OK, this is really bugging me...why are you randomly captilising words? It sets off my OCD >.<

Anyway, way I see it, the melee archetypes work.

Brutes are raging dervishes of destruction that keeps everyone focused on them while they pound everything.

Tankers make a statement. They get in there, makes everyone focus on them and keep bashing away very workmanlike.

Scrappers are brutes on a smaller scale. They beat up everything in AoE.

Stalkers are more focused, targetting the bosses and Lts and murdering them.


If anything, what I would do to scrappers if give them a small AoE on crits. So you crit on a minion, you do 55 damage or so, bit less than a proc but AoE.


 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
OMG WT3ff! Who's 4chan? Why are you bringing it up constantly!? Maybe you're the 4chaner here, all passively aggressively trying to get under people's skins.

Geeze, am I the only one trying to ignore that particular comment because I don't know or care what it means yet it's constantly being pushed in people's faces?
You can google 4chan if you seriously don't know who they are. I bring it up because it in fact applies to certain people who admittedly are on a crusade. What are you getting upset about for real?


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
You can google 4chan if you seriously don't know who they are. I bring it up because it in fact applies to certain people who admittedly are on a crusade. What are you getting upset about for real?
I figured it was some dumb internet meme. That's the thing about memes, though. They're like tropes, tropes are not 'good', just boil down to a necessity of categorization. Memes are not 'good', they're just effective means of imitation and reiteration. Bringing your cruddy meme and trying to get buzz on these boards with it just makes you sound like an unintelligent parrot repeating the same phrase over and over in hopes people start doing the same thing.

So you can think you're cool? So that you can say you started a trend? Who knows. But alls I know is, parrots are annoying.


 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I figured it was some dumb internet meme. That's the thing about memes, though. They're like tropes, tropes are not 'good', just boil down to a necessity of categorization. Memes are not 'good', they're just effective means of imitation and reiteration. Bringing your cruddy meme and trying to get buzz on these boards with it just makes you sound like an unintelligent parrot repeating the same phrase over and over in hopes people start doing the same thing.

So you can think you're cool? So that you can say you started a trend? Who knows. But alls I know is, parrots are annoying.
Yeah... you have issues....serious ones.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
You can google 4chan if you seriously don't know who they are. I bring it up because it in fact applies to certain people who admittedly are on a crusade. What are you getting upset about for real?
I think you're confusing 4chan (which is an imageboard) with Anonymous (which is a a group of hackers on a crusade, or hacktivists if you prefer). Anonymous gets brought up on 4chan a lot, and possibly some members of Anonymous post there, but they aren't the same thing.


 

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Originally Posted by firespray View Post
I think you're confusing 4chan (which is an imageboard) with Anonymous (which is a a group of hackers on a crusade, or hacktivists if you prefer). Anonymous gets brought up on 4chan a lot, and possibly some members of Anonymous post there, but they aren't the same thing.
Thanks for the heads up.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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I just can't imagine 4chan going on a crusade to get scrappers buffed. Nothing in this thread indicates that they are here, and the lack of gore and child porn is pretty strong evidence that this is not some 4chan conspiracy. Yeah people that play this game also post on 4chan, but more of them use Facebook so we should probably just rant about the Facebook crusaders.


 

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Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha View Post
I just can't imagine 4chan going on a crusade to get scrappers buffed. Nothing in this thread indicates that they are here, and the lack of gore and child porn is pretty strong evidence that this is not some 4chan conspiracy. Yeah people that play this game also post on 4chan, but more of them use Facebook so we should probably just rant about the Facebook crusaders.
Pretty funny. I don't think where the crusade is coming from is as important as the anti-social nature of same in how it has played out here. That is where the suspicion came from for me, in the how it was brought up out of the blue just after the stalker changes and the acknowledged lack of need/merit etc.....


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
If I were revamping Scrapper's critical hit inherent, I would add a big visual effect of a flashy spark impact explosion on the foe every time they score a critical. And when defeating a foe with a critical, it causes the target 9,001 mag KB.
That would be kinda awesome.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Pretty funny. I don't think where the crusade is coming from is as important as the anti-social nature of same in how it has played out here. That is where the suspicion came from for me, in the how it was brought up out of the blue just after the stalker changes and the acknowledged lack of need/merit etc.....
Merit and Need are not the same thing. Need is irrelevant in a form of entertainment. Merit is in the eye of the beholder.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Merit and Need are not the same thing. Need is irrelevant in a form of entertainment. Merit is in the eye of the beholder.
Need specifically referring to the context in which the discussion surrounded. Merit as in stalkers needing a buff in the eye of the devs.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Need specifically referring to the context in which the discussion surrounded. Merit as in stalkers needing a buff in the eye of the devs.
I can see why several of us are so dedicated to Scrappers having something that is uniquely theirs, what I can't see is why you are so dedicated against it.

Like it or not, this has become such an issue in so many places the devs will have taken notice. Assuming they hadn't already.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Merit and Need are not the same thing. Need is irrelevant in a form of entertainment. Merit is in the eye of the beholder.
How many years are you willing to wait for the needed scrapper buffs?


When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...


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Scrappers have something of their own: the highest no caveat damage and the durability to deliever it safely. By "no caveat", I meant they don't have to worry about Fury like Brutes do or hop through the hoops Stalkers have to jump through to achieve that high ST DPS (not AoE, ST). They might not have shiny mechanisms, but I see a ton of them on teams. I understand there might be a certain envy of Stalkers getting something shiny, but there're people who like Scrappers' simplicity (at least some've already posted in this thread).

In short, scrappers are workhorse melee DPS characters and that's essentially their role in the game. And it seems like they're doing just fine at that role.

If that's not interesting enough, you might want to try out the more 'fancy' melee ATs. I'm personally not really playing scrappers, but that's in large part because I play far more support ATs than melee ATs (controllers being in the largest majority, but with other support ATs following them in numbers). And my current favorite melee character's a Dark/Stone Tanker both because I like mezzes and knockdowns, and because I enjoy helping keeping the team going smoothly. What I'm saying is that we all have different tastes and you might be finding that the Scrapper AT isn't as much to your taste as you had thought.

Alternatively, you might want to try the newer melee sets, which seem to be tending toward more fancy mechanisms like the one Stalkers just got. Heck, I recently tried a Street Justice Stalker on the test server and it was a little too much for me juggling both the mechanisms of StJ combos and Assassin Focus. Seems like I can only really comfortably manage one such mechanism at a time.

As for "what could it hurt"?, it's a matter of dev prioritization. Not just the time to code (which for some of the suggestions might be trival), but the time to decide what to code (i.e. design time). I'd rather see the attention paid to archetypes and powersets with real issues - the Blaster threads having convinced me they need real help, for one.


 

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Originally Posted by Zyphoid View Post
I can see why several of us are so dedicated to Scrappers having something that is uniquely theirs, what I can't see is why you are so dedicated against it.

Like it or not, this has become such an issue in so many places the devs will have taken notice. Assuming they hadn't already.
I'm not convinced one way or another, personally. I haven't done a ton of analysis, and the few examples I've fiddled with personally made me feel like Brutes and Scrappers are pretty well balanced in terms of the attack/survive trade offs. All I really want fixed is the AI so that I don't need a taunt aura. I shouldn't need a taunt aura when solo. I prefer Scrappers because I like the always ready to go nature of their damage output. I don't like waiting for it to crank up. I also tend to prefer build up sets to follow up sets for similar reasons. There IS some advantage to damage up front compared to damage later, but my enjoyment of it is probably out of proportion to the actual benefit, and enjoyment isn't subject to numerical analysis.

While Scrappers don't need a buff in the "I can't get through my missions" sense or in the "nobody is playing them" sense, I won't complain at all if the devs decide Scrappers need a buff for inter-AT balance reasons. I also won't complain if the devs are satisfied with where Scrappers are at right now. I'm sure there are reasonable people and some evidence for each side of that particular debate.

But whether the opinion expressed is right or wrong, something like the OP's post, which assumed the conclusion in the thread title and vastly oversimplified a complex picture, is asking to be mocked. Best if we don't stoop to mockery, but it was SOOOOOO tempting. So I gave in. And this seems to be an issue where I fall easily into mockery. A personal failing, I'll admit.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

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Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
How many years are you willing to wait for the needed scrapper buffs?
Stalkers NEEDED a buff. I am not going to argue against that. They got a great buff that makes the AT fun and exciting to play.

Scrappers (most of us any way) realize that Scrappers do not NEED a buff. What we WANT is something that is unique to scrappers. Scrappers have no Power set or Mechanic that is unique to them. In the case of crits, Stalkers have a far better version of it, and with ATIO's added in, a more predictable version of it.

There have been multiple suggestions on how to solve this issue w/o killing balance, or adding complexity to the scrapper. We at least all agree that we do not want a complex mechanic, or one that needs to be monitored, to be added to the scrapper. I am sure those of us who have made suggestions like ours the best.

I don't think any of us who are passionate about this are going to back off though. This has been an odd subject in many ways. There are some posters that I have respected for years who have made me angry during these discussions. Some I have played and chatted with in beta who are really fun to play with and talk to. The shocking thing is really how rude some of us have been in these threads.

The up side is this is not a new fight for me. It just got more intense during the i22 beta.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
All I really want fixed is the AI so that I don't need a taunt aura. I shouldn't need a taunt aura when solo.
Now, this I can agree with. The circumstances in which AIs run away need to be heavily tweaked. I'd even be happy with complete elimination of fleeing even if it makes survivability a little bit harder on some of my squishies--it still isn't worth the irritation. And it's even worse on melee ATs.


 

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Originally Posted by Zyphoid View Post
I can see why several of us are so dedicated to Scrappers having something that is uniquely theirs, what I can't see is why you are so dedicated against it.
Because of the opportunity cost. Would it be nice for scrappers to get a little more unique inherent, sure, I wouldn't complain if it happened. But the devs have a limited amount of time and budget to make changes and additions to this game. If they spend some of that time and money making changes to scrappers, then that is happening instead of something else they could be doing. And making changes to scrappers is pretty far down my list of things I want to see happen in this game. Just off the top of my head; blaster changes, new incarnate abilities, pool power customization, several new powersets I'd like to see, fixes for several existing powersets, zone revamps, and new purple IO sets are all things I'd like to see more than scrapper inherent changes.