Honest Blaster Questions/Research
This notion that the problem with the Blaster archetype is the fault of the players comes up year after year. Its specious and irrelevant, because in this game archetypes are not supposed to be judged based on whether someone somewhere can manage to succeed with them. They are supposed to be judged based on whether they provide a similar level of tools to succeed, as judged by whether or not there's a strong disparity in the percentage of players that eventually make them succeed, and the degree to which they succeed.
That disparity is going to be eliminated. The only question is how long it will take to happen, and whether it happens a piece at a time or all at once. I don't care how many people insist on denying it exists.
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This notion that the problem with the Blaster archetype is the fault of the Devs comes up year after year. Its specious and irrelevant, because in this game archetypes are not supposed to be judged based on whether someone somewhere can manage to succeed with them.
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Keep in mind, in the link I listed, people were complaining then that the AT
was broken there, too (that was in 2005).
Sorry - I didn't buy then. I don't buy it now. Carry On.
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Keep in mind, in the link I listed, people were complaining then that the AT
was broken there, too (that was in 2005). Sorry - I didn't buy then. I don't buy it now. Carry On. |
It remains to be seen if the devs agree with people complaining currently, but I really don't know what point you were trying to make there.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
90% of the time, DPS is *exactly* what he's doing, and it works fine. Part of
the reason I *like* blasters is you don't have to micromanage crap all the time like you do with controllers or MM's. However, when things go South, DPS may not be the solution (although, with a well placed nuke, or killing or counteracting the right guy at the right time, it may still be). Next, E3 is Elec/Elec/Elec, not Energy. Even if you didn't know that, I thought you might have picked up on it reading my list of capabilities... I stopped reading your rest of your post at that point.... |
Oddly since that point in 2005 the devs agreed with the people complaining about blaster performance and tried to fix it.
It remains to be seen if the devs agree with people complaining currently, but I really don't know what point you were trying to make there. |
than the original.
People have been saying since original Beta that "this AT or that AT is broken"
or is superfluous due to some other AT, or what have you.
By and large it's bunk.
Yes, some *specific* powers may be suboptimal, or need tweaking, or may be
"out of balance" compared to some other arbitrary power, but that does NOT
equal a "broken AT".
I think the devs should look at a few Blaster powers (just as they did with AS for
Stalkers), and tweak them for "Today's Game", but that's it.
Clearly there are conflicting *opinions* in these threads, but "broken" has a very
clear dictionary meaning - words are like that and quite simply, no AT fits
that definition.
When my glass is broken, when my car is broken, when my air-conditioning is
broken, I *cannot* use them... period.
Not only are none of my Blasters broken, but they actually excel at what they do.
Anyway, that's 3 more posts than I intended in this thread - if you all think the
AT is "broken", fine. I simply disagree with that assessment.
If you'll excuse me, I'm off to shoot Bad Guys -- with my Blaster
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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Clearly there are conflicting *opinions* in these threads, but "broken" has a very
clear dictionary meaning - words are like that and quite simply, no AT fits that definition. |
Whether they still have a similar degree of problems is a conjecture, but the burden of proof is on the people that insist the problem doesn't exist, since they were already provably wrong at least once before.
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Clearly there are conflicting *opinions* in these threads, but "broken" has a very clear dictionary meaning - words are like that and quite simply, no AT fits that definition.
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Broken, for example, can also mean something that's simply not functioning as intended; not necessarily something that's not functioning at all.
Also, I don't really have any opinion about PvP before the attempted 'fix' other than that I didn't find it fun like I had in other games. However, an attempted fix that fails and makes things worse isn't exactly indicative of something not needing to be fixed in the first place.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Fourspeed:
My invuln scrapper used to be TWENTY times tougher than my wife's blaster and you ... didn't think... that was broken*?
* "Failed game design" if that phrase makes you happier. Fixating on stupid BS when everyone knows what we all mean is an internet tradition, I realize.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Fourspeed:
My invuln scrapper used to be TWENTY times tougher than my wife's blaster and you ... didn't think... that was broken*? * "Failed game design" if that phrase makes you happier. Fixating on stupid BS when everyone knows what we all mean is an internet tradition, I realize. |
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yes, but a brand new ferrrari should not be considered broken because a 12 year old with no driving experience takes it out and crashes it.
Comparing a ferrari driven by a 12 year old without a license to a yugo driven by a professional will not give you an accurate measurement of the abilities of the cars, just the drivers.
yes, but a brand new ferrrari should not be considered broken because a 12 year old with no driving experience takes it out and crashes it.
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We design archetypes for the players of the game. We therefore judge archetype performance based on how all of the players of the game combined do with them on average. That's what matters. With regard to archetype performance balance that's the only thing that matters.
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When my glass is broken, when my car is broken, when my air-conditioning is
broken, I *cannot* use them... period. |
A broken glass may still hold liquid at the bottom. Trying to drink out of it may cause you to ingest glass shards, cut your lips, your mouth, your hand. It still ostensibly functions as a "glass" it is also still demonstrably broken.
A car can be leaking oil, leaking coolant, leaking brake fluid, and have reverse be non-functional. It can still be driven (forwards), It can still be put into motion (though you may have difficulty stopping it). It still "works" as a car but by reasonable people's definition is broken.
An Air conditioner with a broken fan still puts out large quantities of cold air, however since the air doesn't move the unit will freeze up, thaw out, freeze up. It still does what it is designed to do (cool the air) it is by most reasonable definitions "broken"
A blaster is one of those ATs that work fine only part of the time (like all of the above examples). Most reasonable people consider that "broken"
Thank you for playing, please drive through.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
A car can be leaking oil, leaking coolant, leaking brake fluid, and have reverse be non-functional. It can still be driven (forwards), It can still be put into motion (though you may have difficulty stopping it). It still "works" as a car but by reasonable people's definition is broken.
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Is there anyone here that:
a. Thinks blasters are not broken
b. Does not fix the gaping holes in blaster functionality with IOs
and meets both conditions at the same time? I haven't read all of the threads about blasters sucking, just curious. In my experience a scrapper with no IOs at all has comparable performance to a blaster filled with (non-purple/pvp) IOs. I guess I could be a "12 year old" idiot noob, or maybe my blasters were manufactured in Suck Town and I didnt have 20 billion influence to fix them.
Even if it can't be driven, it can still be used by the Mythbusters.
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It had a pinhole in the top radiator hose (it went through a bout a gallon of coolant every 2 weeks.)
It had a slow brake fluid leak (he had to put a pint in every couple of weeks and he could tell when it was needed by how squishy the brakes were).
The crankcase leaked oil. It would leak 4 quarts overnight and he would put a plastic pan under it when he parked it, take the pan and pour it back into the engine, drive it to work and put the pan back under it while he was there. Repeat. He'd have to put about a cup of oil in every 30 miles (no pan while driving).
Reverse gear didn't work. He'd spend several minutes on campus looking for a place to park that had 2 stalls back to back so he could pull in and park facing forward to exit. He also left plenty of following room while driving so he never got caught in a place where he would have to back up.
One of the engine cylinders had a bad valve and carbon would build up on the spark plug. Every couple of weeks he would take that plug out, soak it in gasoline over night, wire brush the loose carbon out, regap the plug, and put it back in.
There were more things wrong than right with that car but, in the middle of winter, in 20 below temperatures, it would fire right up first time and he'd be out jump starting the cars of his friends that wouldn't start. Funniest one was his professor that bought a brand new car. The new car wouldn't start (this was in November on a cold day) and my roommate drove over in his junk heap of a car and jumped it and got his professor going.
It all kind of reminds me of the blaster AT. A bunch of junk powers (with a few decent ones) all thrown together in a jumble. Only someone with a lot of experience would even consider it "ok" (kinda like my roomie and his college car). A bunch of broken pieces, in an ostensibly broken whole, still plugging along as if mortally afraid of dying.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I wonder if something as simple as increasing the range on blaster attacks would help. It wouldn't do much for blappers, I guess, but I've found my main, an energy blaster with Boost Range on autofire and extra range from Cardiac, is a lot more survivable by being able to fight not only outside the range of melee attacks, but most ranged attacks as well. Mezzers usually die running up to get in range of using their powers.
I enjoy that one plus a couple of others I've had for a while, but I doubt I'll roll any new blasters. Damage is really the one thing they're designed to do (aside from outliers like the elec/elec end drain), and the nuke makes them special, only in this age of incarnates, you don't need blasters to obliterate entire spawns, because the tank can do that with judgement.
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
Is there anyone here that:
a. Thinks blasters are not broken b. Does not fix the gaping holes in blaster functionality with IOs and meets both conditions at the same time? I haven't read all of the threads about blasters sucking, just curious. In my experience a scrapper with no IOs at all has comparable performance to a blaster filled with (non-purple/pvp) IOs. I guess I could be a "12 year old" idiot noob, or maybe my blasters were manufactured in Suck Town and I didnt have 20 billion influence to fix them. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Without reading all the posts in all the threads here are some thoughts
Blasters to me feel weak, in comparison to other ATs, in part because of their lack of overall defence and particularly mez protection.
However there seems to be a wide disparity across the different kinds of blasters. I've never played a fire blaster to any significant level, but my Ice/En blaster is pretty devastating even without Incarnate content whilst Scarlet Shocker is pretty poor and however many times I've tried to improve her, all Elec is pretty dire these days. End drain is reasonably meaningless, both in PVP and PVE and the damage that electric puts out is feeble. I've also had other blasters that Ive delted once they got to 50 because they lacked the fun that other ATs provide
There seems to be a point where Blasters change from being useful to just being painful to play - generally around lvl 18 +/- 5 and there are few other ATs that are obviously that gimped.
Thelonious Monk
I wonder if something as simple as increasing the range on blaster attacks would help. It wouldn't do much for blappers, I guess, but I've found my main, an energy blaster with Boost Range on autofire and extra range from Cardiac, is a lot more survivable by being able to fight not only outside the range of melee attacks, but most ranged attacks as well. Mezzers usually die running up to get in range of using their powers.
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Without reading all the posts in all the threads here are some thoughts
Blasters to me feel weak, in comparison to other ATs, in part because of their lack of overall defence and particularly mez protection. However there seems to be a wide disparity across the different kinds of blasters. I've never played a fire blaster to any significant level, but my Ice/En blaster is pretty devastating even without Incarnate content whilst Scarlet Shocker is pretty poor and however many times I've tried to improve her, all Elec is pretty dire these days. End drain is reasonably meaningless, both in PVP and PVE and the damage that electric puts out is feeble. I've also had other blasters that Ive delted once they got to 50 because they lacked the fun that other ATs provide There seems to be a point where Blasters change from being useful to just being painful to play - generally around lvl 18 +/- 5 and there are few other ATs that are obviously that gimped. |
"...all Elec is pretty dire these days. End drain is reasonably meaningless, both in PVP and PVE and the damage that electric puts out is feeble."
Hahahahaha, NO. You're definitely doing something, by which I mean several things, wrong. My first 50 was all elec and when he entered PI, he was AoEing groups of red mobs.
And thank you for such a perfect example of "Everything is fine with Blasters if you have years of experience, build perfectly, play perfectly, and nothing goes wrong."
(see also, eight years of "Why do we even have Defenders/Tanks in this game?")
I would say that, yes, there are probably tips we can give Scarlet Shocker to make her elec/elec experience a better one. The point is not to yell UR DOIN IT WRONG. The point is that you have to be a damn good Blaster to do things that a mediocre Scrapper doesn't think twice about.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
There are only two non-controversial issues with endurance draining powers.
1) Endurance drain scales per archetype in PvP. Ones is used instead in PvE. So in PvP, defenders drain better, in PvE, all ATs drain the same. No explanation has ever been given for this discrepancy. (Though fixing this discrepancy probably won't help blasters.)
2) Higher-rank critters were given large endurance pools with the explicit design goal that they should not run themselves out of endurance by activating their own powers. In other words, base recovery alone is sufficient for nearly all critters to spam all their powers, and this is intentional. Thus, recovery debuffs remain helpful, but endurance drain without recovery debuffs is of extremely limited value. (Though Electric Blast has tons of recovery debuffing.)
Other issues, like whether Voltaic Sentinel is a fair substitute for a "tier 3" style blast, are up for debate.
Here again: played my blaster up to lvl12: running the Bocor's Loa Bone mission, Radio's "arc" missions, ending on "Beat Wyvern Rep" (had to street sweep for 3 orange minions before I actually got to lvl12). With 10 bars of patrol xp, took 1hr,5mins. Somehow I messed up my HeroStats data (it crashed while recalculating), and it shows that I went from lvl10 to lvl12 in 5 seconds (I wish!), so when I combined it w/ my previous (1hr26min to lvl10) play session, I get some crazy averages. I'm about to start my MM play session, but I wanted to log the times here before I forgot them.
Edit: Done w/ my MM. With 10 bars of patrol xp, took 1hr6mins to get to lvl12 (from lvl10, that is). I started w/ Radio's arc missions (had already finished Bocor's stuff), ending w/ Force tech to get codebreakers. Almost died twice (in the last mission, walked into a room and aggro'd the whole room), but tactical retreats are my friend. HeroStats messed up again: it now thinks I got to lvl10 in 20mins (I'm flattered, though), but otherwise, nothing new to report.
Since you've chosen to play Energy Blast, you are sacrificing the higher damage of other blast sets for these things that you mention.
the reason I *like* blasters is you don't have to micromanage crap all the time
like you do with controllers or MM's.
However, when things go South, DPS may not be the solution (although, with
a well placed nuke, or killing or counteracting the right guy at the right time, it may still be).
Next, E3 is Elec/Elec/Elec, not Energy. Even if you didn't know that, I thought
you might have picked up on it reading my list of capabilities...
I stopped reading your rest of your post at that point....
And the level of control you mention is something the average random controller has. Its great for a blaster, but that wouldn't even be worth mentioning on a controller. If I said "hi, I have a controller, and he can hold a boss indefinitely and mez an entire spawn" people would think I was on drugs. That's the minimum that all high level controllers should be able to do. A halfway decent one should be able to do far more, because they specialize in control.
Once again, I'm surprised - Really? You can't envision how *any* of those capabilities
could turn the tide (or better yet, prevent it in the first place)? Seriously?
Between this, and your "Shoot fast, faster, fastest" mantra, it's becoming increasingly
clear to me what the issue is likelier to be afaic.
Yes controllers have those control powers, but they don't have 1-shot kill capability,
their pets are often times as responsible for things going south (by aggroing anything
within a mile) as they are at preventing it and, as I mentioned above, they take
constant micromanagement. If you like that sort of thing, and you're good with
micromanaging things, controllers are very powerful.
I'm on record as saying Blasters are NOT broken or underpowered imho, and this
discussion solidifies that position in my mind.
To be sure, I would *like* the devs to re-evaluate snipes and nukes, but by and
large, Blasters have more than enough tools to survive, thrive and be successful.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Bad Blasters out there who need to read and comprehend
BMF's 3B Bible. You can always tell Bad Blasters because they *consistently* die
first or early in most fights. Once in awhile, np, but consistently is the mark of a player
that doesn't understand the AT very well.
That, more than anything is the issue in my mind.
You reinforce that belief even more so with this statement:
to be a fixation. What IS "broken" in that case would be that particular player's
understanding of the capabilities of his chosen toon.
Oddly enough, that is *exactly* what I believe applies to the bulk of the Blaster
angst as well...
Consequently, I've nothing more to post here - largely because I completely disagree
with the primary premise of Blasters being a "broken AT".
GL, HF,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.