Is it mean to purchase shares of Microsoft and Wal-Mart before they became successful?
Is it mean to sell those shares before the economic downturn?
I don't think so.
Do we as a community have a responsibility to inform our fellow players of the likely impact of issue 22? I do think we are morally obligated to answer questions if asked, but if they don't ask, I see no reason to infer that they are ignorant.
Some folks have more money than sense, some just want what they want when they want it. (NAO!)
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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You have contradicted yourself in 2 sentances. Not only is this not Micro-soft or walmart. Its more like A lemonaide stand than anything you have offered. Its a video-game mostly played by children and by people like me the child inside.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Is it mean to purchase shares of Microsoft and Wal-Mart before they became successful?
Is it mean to sell those shares before the economic downturn? I don't think so. Do we as a community have a responsibility to inform our fellow players of the likely impact of issue 22? I do think we are morally obligated to answer questions if asked, but if they don't ask, I see no reason to infer that they are ignorant. Some folks have more money than sense, some just want what they want when they want it. (NAO!) |
And how could you possibly after all this time continue to talk about a video-game in the real world terms of life and gain and loss.
Its time to stop the roleplay this is not a real market and the devs have decided to KILL yes KILL maybe MURDER or OBLITERATE is better but they have thrown the gauntlet down.
The marketing days are different. Not gone just chanfged profits lowerd. Deal with it. But dont compare this to Microsoft. I knew Microsoft and apple and sam walton. You sir are no Same Walton. So please dont even try to compare this to real life. Cause the people that are trying to sell an io for 2 billion off market are cheating the people buying. They are knowingly and without care defrauding the people buying as to the value of the object they are buying.
. They are knowingly and without care defrauding the people buying as to the value of the object they are buying.
in the real world this is a crime you go to jail for? so if you cant go to jail in this game for this type for rime dont compare it to life.
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Not the case. Selling off market now - or even on market - is just acting on publicly available information. As usual, most people don't care about the market. What's coming in Tuesday is largely good for them. Yes, people who wanted purple mez sets may be sad, but basically everyone else is going to discover everything is more affordable, so it's hardly bad news for them.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
in the real world this is a crime you go to jail for? so if you cant go to jail in this game for this type for rime dont compare it to life. |
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I know what your saying is not true. Selling an io for 3 billion of market now is cheating to someone who does not know whats coming.|
Originally Posted by Plasma
Not the case. Selling off market now - or even on market - is just acting on publicly available information. As usual, most people don't care about the market. What's coming in Tuesday is largely good for them. Yes, people who wanted purple mez sets may be sad, but basically everyone else is going to discover everything is more affordable, so it's hardly bad news for them.
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Spin it anyway you like its not the right thing to do unless you just need influ and are willing to do anything to get it.
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That's like saying the local hardware store is cheating people for selling a hammer at say $29.99 when in just 2 days it will be on sale for say $19.99. Just cause those people don't know a sale is coming doesn't mean they got cheated.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
I know what your saying is not true. Selling an io for 3 billion of market now is cheating to someone who does not know whats coming.
Spin it anyway you like its not the right thing to do unless you just need influ and are willing to do anything to get it. |
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Well, what's even selling for 3B? Even the PvP IOs are firmly under 2B unless the buyer is basically insane. Even the L10 ones, and those are not going to have some magic supply pop up on Tuesday. (Although obviously the L50s will arrive en masse.)
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
I know what your saying is not true. Selling an io for 3 billion of market now is cheating to someone who does not know whats coming.
Spin it anyway you like its not the right thing to do unless you just need influ and are willing to do anything to get it. |
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
I know what your saying is not true. Selling an io for 3 billion of market now is cheating to someone who does not know whats coming.
Spin it anyway you like its not the right thing to do unless you just need influ and are willing to do anything to get it. |
...and if the buyer "needs" the IO, and is willing to do anything to get it?
I would say that the vast majority of the people willing and able to afford the 1, 2, 3 BILLION for the IO are informed players. People who know that an IO is "worth" in excess of a billion inf likely are aware of what might be around the corner.
I am not cheating anybody by offering an IO at any price. Regardless of being on- or off-market, it's not cheating someone by offering an item for a price, if they are willing to buy it. I am not misleading them and saying, "1 bill for a glad" and giving them the res/rech/end. I am not deliberately giving them false information.
You, yourself have mentioned in the past that you have multiple billions of inf. I would imagine at least some of it came from buying something at a price you saw worthwhile, and selling it for a profit. You knew that you could get that LotG for 50 mil if you were patient. Likewise, the buyer knew he could have it for 100 mil if he wanted it badly enough. Is that not just as wrong?
Thank you, Champion.
Most legit places have a 30 day price guarantee - XD - just saying...
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
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but most private sellers do not.|
Originally Posted by Gr33n
Most legit places have a 30 day price guarantee - XD - just saying...
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I'm selling privately. I am not Best Buy.
Thank you, Champion.
You guys are straight up silly.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Caveat emptor. Any purchase always has a risk of losing its value the next day, and if they're spending billions on something and haven't done even a bit of research, it's their own fault.
I mean, it would different if you reassured them "This item will definitely always be at least as valuable as it is now". That would just be lying.
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Sorry, but no.|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
I know what your saying is not true. Selling an io for 3 billion of market now is cheating to someone who does not know whats coming.
Spin it anyway you like its not the right thing to do unless you just need influ and are willing to do anything to get it. |
If people are looking for a specific IO, and are willing to pay in excess of 2 billion for it, why should a seller be happy with 1.8 billion after market fees?
As long as both buyer and seller agree on a price, there's exactly zero wrong with this.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Wait... what did I miss in i22 that makes PvP IOs cheaper now?
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Enhancement converters in I22 will allow you to essentially reroll PvP IOs, giving the potential to turn a cheap PvP IO into a desirable one.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Wait... what did I miss in i22 that makes PvP IOs cheaper now?
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Dont hate the seller....hate the buyer :P
Global@SteelDominator
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Apparently, you have not read another of my posts. It stated that, on the internet, the way to start an argument is to express an opinion, and then wait. I merely took the contrary position, as you no doubt hoped someone would. |
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
You have contradicted yourself in 2 sentances. Not only is this not Micro-soft or walmart. Its more like A lemonaide stand than anything you have offered. Its a video-game mostly played by children and by people like me the child inside.
And how could you possibly after all this time continue to talk about a video-game in the real world terms of life and gain and loss. Its time to stop the roleplay this is not a real market and the devs have decided to KILL yes KILL maybe MURDER or OBLITERATE is better but they have thrown the gauntlet down. The marketing days are different. Not gone just chanfged profits lowerd. Deal with it. But dont compare this to Microsoft. I knew Microsoft and apple and sam walton. You sir are no Same Walton. So please dont even try to compare this to real life. Cause the people that are trying to sell an io for 2 billion off market are cheating the people buying. They are knowingly and without care defrauding the people buying as to the value of the object they are buying. |
If you choose to debate morality, do so.
Your position is that it's wrong/mean to sell an IO to someone when days later it will be far more affordable.
I think many IOs will be more affordable in a few days.
Obviously, you think they will be more affordable in a few days.
And you assume that whomever is purchasing these does not know.
This is a fact that is not in evidence. Certainly, it is a reasonable assumption, though. Ignorance is bliss, is it not?
However, let us consider your philisophical argument at its merits.
Is it a fair assumption that people who buy things off market do not know about the likely changes come Tuesday?
I would suggest that off-market purchases are made by people who are more likely to know what they are getting into and making informed choices. There are only a couple ways I know to sell an IO/recipe off market.
1.) come to the forums and advertise.
This is the only way I've ever seen a glad proc sold. I've heard/read of trades being offered, but never accepted. I've also seen trades of one purple recipe for another.
But, of the several glad procs I've sold, they've all been through the forums - where people are far more likely to know what's ahead in issue 22.
I would submit the possibility that the people buying these before issue 22 hits are speculating, and hoping to strike it rich. The market is an odd mistress. Hard to know how she'll act. So, please, try not to suggest that those who sell are mean, or cheating. The same very well could be true of the buyers.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
"I would submit the possibility that the people buying these before issue 22 hits are speculating, and hoping to strike it rich. The market is an odd mistress. Hard to know how she'll act. So, please, try not to suggest that those who sell are mean, or cheating. The same very well could be true of the buyers."
I Disagree with this line of thinking completely. Also I think that since you said "Apparently, you have not read another of my posts. It stated that, on the internet, the way to start an argument is to express an opinion, and then wait. I merely took the contrary position, as you no doubt hoped someone would.
If you choose to debate morality, do so.
Your position is that it's wrong/mean to sell an IO to someone when days later it will be far more affordable."
I would think that you are not believing what you said your self and are merely looking for argument and I have not the time to research you or argue with you about what I think you yourself know is disingenuous and flat out the wrong way to conduct business. Taking a contrary position to create an argument is a trolling move. So plese troll over there unless you have something to contribute in regards to this post.
And this post in itself is a warning to other people to not be taken for a ride in buying off market. As you see in this thread some didnt know about i22 converters.
I brought this up on The Masque selling thread on the 17th January.
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If people still haven't learnt by now a month later, then they either arn't bothered or arn't bothered.|
Am surprised these are still selling for this amount? I've been purchasing 10-20million inf pvp recipes, and once i22 hits I will just convert them into the unique's |
Let people sell them where they like, if people don't do there research, more fool them.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
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Caveat emptor.|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
And this post in itself is a warning to other people to not be taken for a ride in buying off market. As you see in this thread some didnt know about i22 converters.
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If someone is too stupid/impatient to do the work to find themselves the best deal and wind up paying the "Buy It NAO!" price that's THEIR problem. It's not the seller's fault they grossly overpaid..
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Ahhh yes. I care so little for PvP IOs that I forgot all about that. I wanted to know what the detail was before I commented.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Enhancement converters in I22 will allow you to essentially reroll PvP IOs, giving the potential to turn a cheap PvP IO into a desirable one.
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I have always been opposed to off-market sales on the principle that they skirt the influence cap, and get around market fees... two things I don't think should ever happen. As to selling it for an "unfair" price, I have no issue with that. If someone wants to spend pretendy-money on something, go nuts, I say.
As an aside, I am firmly in support of all non-existent items suddenly and without warning being taken from the market... Hopefully that kills billions in savings.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
As you see in this thread some didnt know about i22 converters.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
And how could you possibly after all this time continue to talk about a video-game in the real world terms of life and gain and loss.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
. They are knowingly and without care defrauding the people buying as to the value of the object they are buying.
in the real world this is a crime you go to jail for? so if you cant go to jail in this game for this type for rime dont compare it to life. |
To answer your question, though, no that's not a crime and you don't go to jail for it. Because your comparison is BS. Does a store owner go to jail if they sell something for $50 even though they know they will put it on sale next week for $35?
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Someone is being mean to multi-billionaires? That's horrible!
Just think of how these hapless victims managed to accumulate billions of Inf without any real comprehension of how the market works. And of course they managed to get to the point where they needed the most expensive and exclusive of all PvP IOs, doubtless after buying dozens of other purples, all without a basic grasp of the economy. It must have been pure accident that they sought out an off-market sale, since they certainly don't have the savvy to understand them. And finally they probably located their off-market sale contact here in the Market & Invention forum where they managed to avoid all the threads that discuss I22 and converters.
Given this scenario, I agree with the OP. It's mean.
/sarcasm
I don't play this game to pretend I'm rich. I play it to pretend I'm super-powered and violent. I've been to the test server. I've read all the threads about how to make (or lose) billions in the post-I22 economy... and I have not stocked up on anything or delayed any purchase I would normally make. To me, having 100 billion Inf stashed on 50 alts would not make the game more fun. But being able to try out my new build ASAP... that's fun, and worth paying extra for.
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You really might want to take a look at the +3% Global Def PvP IO. There's a reason it was selling for 3 Billion INF at one point.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
You can't use me as an example. I would never buy a PvP IO at any price. So not knowing about that was apathy, not lack of research or knowledge prior to a sale.
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With the converters, you get your hand on the cheapest PvP IO you can find from any source and paying one converter at a time, convert it until it lands on that set with the +3% Def. And if it isn't the +3% one, then spend 3 converters at a time until it is.
It might cost you 150 million INF and a few dozen Astrals or Empyreans, or hundreds of Merits; but, you'll get it for one one-twentieth the usual price.
Or you wait for the marketers to flood the market with them and pick one up for, I'm guessing the stabalized price of 500 million.
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Is just taking candy from babies. Its profiting of the uninformed.
Its mean
At least i think so.