selling off market? now?


Another_Fan

 

Posted

from a different thread but true logic





Originally Posted by Texarkana
I think it is, significantly, until atleast Tuesday. And, then longterm, once stock is exhausted, the "not-so-good" purples will rise to that 300m watermark, with the "good" purples rising even higher, but no where near pre-i22 levels.



I don't think so, for the simple reason that farmers (1%/ebil marketers) are far more the exception, and I assume most players may not have that much funding by the time i22 hits. As noted, those folks in the upper class are set, but as purples drop in price, I don't see much of a way for the middle or lower classes to get a leg up (aside from ATOs which are not acquired through any in-game means).



I'm actually a little concerned about the game based on this progression.
Before inventions, people basically farmed for INF directly and might occasionally score the diamond in terms of Hami's or Titans (assuming they'd be willing to sell it off).
When inventions came, farmers had...more to farm for, but farming became more accessible to everyone in terms of reaping, particularly when it came to Magic salvage.
Reward merits and AE tickets were the equivalent of the Louisiana Purchase -- the west was opened. More fertile land to reap in terms of salvage. People could simply buy up needed salvage with those currencies and plug it into recipes, or else could also sell that salvage off without necessarily having to invest time in acquiring INF first.
Continuing that analogy, although the Lousiana Purchase "opened up farmland", there were still veins of precious metals out there to be found (i.e. Purple recipes and respec recipes). We call it farming for recipes, but in reality those folks were panning for gold, and when they found it, it freqently was the mother lode, as evidenced by the offline arrangement of transactions.
Then comes along Incarnate Rewards in terms of Astral and Empyrean Merits as well as Alignment Merits. Althought slightly time-locked, purples are now purchaseable with direct, farmable currency and consequently, we have the rise of the true 1% (see The_Masque from November to December 2011 for an example) who really worked the system and profited from it.
Superpacks come along a few weeks back and now we have Reward-merits galore. For those folks sustaining themselves on orange salvage sales at 2-3million INF per pop, I fear their days are numbered.
And then, of course, converters come out on Tuesday, making any purple a possible unique with enough converting, which will impact all the high value uniques. In this case, getting a toon to 50 and committing to running every trial successfully every day over the course of a week in order to nail that one big 2billion inf score on a shield wall or gladiator starts to fizzle.
2 billion can go a long way for most people (min/maxers and ebil marketers aside). Basically, I think anyone new to the game or relatively casual/middle classed in terms of total inf holding will...lose a significant method/opportunity to improve their economic standing in the game.
I am shocked and surpirsed by your analasiys in that i cannot spell and that i did not thikn of this.

2 billion can go a long way for most people (min/maxers and ebil marketers aside). Basically, I think anyone new to the game or relatively casual/middle classed in terms of total inf holding will...lose a significant method/opportunity to improve their economic standing in the game


this is a very big deal you are correct. I was only thinking of myself. But this change will make poor (influ-wise) even poorer.


Very good point


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Caveat emptor.

If someone is too stupid/impatient to do the work to find themselves the best deal and wind up paying the "Buy It NAO!" price that's THEIR problem. It's not the seller's fault they grossly overpaid..
So in this video game that people are already paying for. Just so i get this straight. I want to be clear what your saying here because i think its important.


So if someone does not know the market is about to change, and they are "stupid" in that they dont spend the time on the market or the boards that you and I do clearly. Its ok to charge them over the cap price. Because thats what this thread is about. If you charge 1 billion ingame and someone who does not know and is not informed. Also this person may have saved for many months to get one of these. You think its ok to charge them over the cap off market, "because they are stupid" is that what you are saying?


Please info me as to the true intention of your post.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
So if someone does not know the market is about to change, and they are "stupid" in that they dont spend the time on the market or the boards that you and I do clearly. Its ok to charge them over the cap price. Because thats what this thread is about. If you charge 1 billion ingame and someone who does not know and is not informed. Also this person may have saved for many months to get one of these. You think its ok to charge them over the cap off market, "because they are stupid" is that what you are saying?
Yes. "Caveat Emptor" means "Let the buyer beware". If you're buying something from someone you don't know, and you fail at even the most basic diligence (checking how much the item you're buying is worth), you have no one to blame but yourself if you overpay.

Moreover though, you have yet to demonstrate that any significant number of people have the billions to spend, but are not aware that prices are about to drop precipitously.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Yes. "Caveat Emptor" means "Let the buyer beware". If you're buying something from someone you don't know, and you fail at even the most basic diligence (checking how much the item you're buying is worth), you have no one to blame but yourself if you overpay.

Moreover though, you have yet to demonstrate that any significant number of people have the billions to spend, but are not aware that prices are about to drop precipitously.
The phrase you are looking for is "Never give a sucker an even break"


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
You really might want to take a look at the +3% Global Def PvP IO. There's a reason it was selling for 3 Billion INF at one point.
*Shrug*

I also use very very few purples. I just don't agree with the prices or the "OMG Now I am Uber Because My Build Costs A Lot" attitude, so I have eschewed the whole thing, and honestly? I don't feel like I am missing anything. My characters all play to my level of required performance as is... even the ones that are like 90% SOs only.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
*Shrug*

I also use very very few purples. I just don't agree with the prices or the "OMG Now I am Uber Because My Build Costs A Lot" attitude, so I have eschewed the whole thing, and honestly? I don't feel like I am missing anything. My characters all play to my level of required performance as is... even the ones that are like 90% SOs only.
There are some builds which fundamentally play entirely different and cost a ton. For example, perma-eclipse on a warshade. It requires a heck of a lot of recharge, and I really, really wouldn't want to give it up.

Which is not to entirely disagree; I have an ill/rad controller who is still mostly in L30 single-origin IOs and still feels amazing. (Although he is using like 4-5 LotGs, but that's about it.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
So in this video game that people are already paying for. Just so i get this straight. I want to be clear what your saying here because i think its important.
For a shiny fun-time fake stuff market? YES!
The auction house and its attendant "stuff" is, for all that it can be an income booster, OPTIONAL in this game.
People are NOT (and I repeat NOT) paying real money to have access to the consignment house with gear at a guaranteed price point. That's what the various vendors are for in the game.

People are paying the monthly fees for:
  1. Access to the game at
  2. A specific tier of game access
Nobody's promising them IOs and Hami-Os of any type, level, etc, etc at low low low prices.


If this is your expectation, YOU ARE PLAYING THE WRONG GAME.


Quote:
So if someone does not know the market is about to change, and they are "stupid" in that they dont spend the time on the market or the boards that you and I do clearly.
If someone crashes an IPO on the stock market and later sells you a share from that company at a price greater than the IPO price, do you have a right to demand that share at the original IPO price?

NOPE!

I said that these people are not as diligent those who ARE keeping abreast. The early bird gets the worm.

Quote:
Its ok to charge them over the cap price.
If someone is impatient/willing enough to pay it on a valuable commodity? How do I put this?

**** YES!

Do I demand you sell your McLaren F1 showpiece car to me for $10,000?

Quote:
Because thats what this thread is about. If you charge 1 billion ingame and someone who does not know and is not informed. Also this person may have saved for many months to get one of these. You think its ok to charge them over the cap off market, "because they are stupid" is that what you are saying?
If you stop at the only rest area for 50 miles on a highway and want a Coke, do you gripe because the rest area is charging $2.50 a bottle when every place else you've ever been is charging $1.75?

No. I think that if they're not diligent enough to go earn one themselves, and they have the spare 2+billion burning a hole in their pockets, and they want one, they get to pay the "Buy It NAO!" tax.

In some cases they're paying this because they're too dumb to see they could earn one themselves in short order and far more cheaply. In others its because they're paying for convenience.

Quote:
Please info me as to the true intention of your post.
The "true intention" is pretty obvious.

YOU feel it's horribly unfair that some people use the market as a form of PVP minigame. This is just a nasty little mess of entitlement and envy masquerading as moral outrage.

Toughski pancakeski.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
*Shrug*

I also use very very few purples. I just don't agree with the prices or the "OMG Now I am Uber Because My Build Costs A Lot" attitude, so I have eschewed the whole thing, and honestly? I don't feel like I am missing anything. My characters all play to my level of required performance as is... even the ones that are like 90% SOs only.
That's perfectly cool. In fact that's VERY cool.

Keep the fact that you can be ridiculously awesome in this game WITHOUT IO'ing to the gills in mind.

IOs in this game, for all that people scream and cry and carry on about them, are an expensive luxury item.



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Posted

Does whether it's okay depend on whether the seller knows about the upcoming changes?


 

Posted

This is great. We haven't had a good ol' fashioned "marketeers are ebil!" thread in a while. This brings back memories...


@Quasadu

"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasadu View Post
This is great. We haven't had a good ol' fashioned "marketeers are ebil!" thread in a while. This brings back memories...
*Pulls on his "Dark Overlord of Inf" hoodie*




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
So in this video game that people are already paying for. Just so i get this straight. I want to be clear what your saying here because i think its important.
Everyone who's using the market is paying for the game. As others have posted, that doesn't give them any expectation about interaction with other players that isn't outright griefing. Failing to cut people a break isn't griefing.


Quote:
So if someone does not know the market is about to change, and they are "stupid" in that they dont spend the time on the market or the boards that you and I do clearly. Its ok to charge them over the cap price. Because thats what this thread is about.
The notion that such a person is "stupid" is your attempt to color the seller as the bad guy, and isn't necessarily held by the seller. The buyer may be uninformed (which is not the same as stupid), or they may not care, and may just want the shiny right damn now.

A really nice prospective seller might ask a prospective buyer if they knew the price is almost certainly about to fall. Failing to be a really nice person in a video game does not definitively make you a bad person. It makes you a less nice person than it's possible to be. No one in this game is mandated to be as nice as they can be.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
IOs in this game, for all that people scream and cry and carry on about them, are an expensive luxury item.
And, really, even then only a tiny handful of IOs are actually expensive. The vast majority of IO sets are cheap, and can still deliver enormous performance gains over SOs.

Anyone dropping a billion on a single IO is already way, way out on the far end of the curve for slotting up a character.


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Posted

This thread is very funny.

The OP is entirely wrong. Even if this was the real-world, buyer beware would apply. The upcoming changes are publicly available information, those who don't know about them only have themselves to blame.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardrea View Post
The OP is entirely wrong.
The OP being wrong is pretty normal around here. The OP is apparently also a two-faced troublemaker who needs to stop stirring crap up on the forums and just go back to living under his bridge:

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
I try to keep liquid around 15-20 bill (atm about 18)

in bins in base about another 20-25 bill depending on market (all purples and pvp ios)

If i start to get over these numbers i burn it or purple out a toon i dont even play. Which at the moment i have 15 purpled out and pvpiod toons of which i play 5.

Thats another thing i have 35 toons all iod. I only play 5 regularly. So if i needed to liquidate I couldnt put a number on it but in the 100s of billions.
Please tell us, o holier-than-thou one, exactly how DO you amass a net worth of hundreds of billions of INF without occasionally fleecing some of the ignorant masses you're now pretending to be claiming to try to protect?

The sheer stupidity of a "one-percenter" ranting and wailing about the other "one-percenters" is sort of hysterical. What's the real issue here? "I got mine, but damned if you should get yours?"


"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast View Post
And, really, even then only a tiny handful of IOs are actually expensive.
Well, when you're shuffling around 100+ billion across your characters, "expensive" one's idea of "expensive" isn't quite the same as the guy who's total Inf store on their account is 2-3 billion.

Quote:
Anyone dropping a billion on a single IO is already way, way out on the far end of the curve for slotting up a character.
Agreed.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldorado View Post
The OP being wrong is pretty normal around here. The OP is apparently also a two-faced troublemaker who needs to stop stirring crap up on the forums and just go back to living under his bridge:


Please tell us, o holier-than-thou one, exactly how DO you amass a net worth of hundreds of billions of INF without occasionally fleecing some of the ignorant masses you're now pretending to be claiming to try to protect?

The sheer stupidity of a "one-percenter" ranting and wailing about the other "one-percenters" is sort of hysterical. What's the real issue here? "I got mine, but damned if you should get yours?"
This thread is about off market transaction over the cap while a major impending change is about to occur in the market.

Its different from marketing off market cause i did all that on the market before the announcement of an impending shift in marketing. I also did that all at fair market prices not one off market sale ever.

And as far as me making my influ on the market honestly is very different than someone charging 1 bill over the cap for something that is currently as of this writing about 1.2-1.5 bill. Thats a 100% overcharge.

Also this thread was begun only a couple days ago.

My though process was that once you get so close to this kind of major shift its not nice to fleece unsuspecting people.

At least on the market you can watch the last 5 and follow it for a couple days and you have a fair understanding about where the market is on certain things.

Also having played from almost the begining of this game i have had a lot of time to work on my fortune. As well as I saved every hamio i had for about 2 years (many were 51,52,53 not +,++,+++ they became quite valuable and i had hundreds.

Plus some purple flipping since you are so interested in my marketing ablity. As well as an AFK pvp IO farm about 3 years ago i guess now.

BUt that was deemed ok by the devs so nothing bad there.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldorado View Post
The OP being wrong is pretty normal around here. The OP is apparently also a two-faced troublemaker who needs to stop stirring crap up on the forums and just go back to living under his bridge:


Please tell us, o holier-than-thou one, exactly how DO you amass a net worth of hundreds of billions of INF without occasionally fleecing some of the ignorant masses you're now pretending to be claiming to try to protect?

The sheer stupidity of a "one-percenter" ranting and wailing about the other "one-percenters" is sort of hysterical. What's the real issue here? "I got mine, but damned if you should get yours?"

I realized that you think bad of people that are rich. But being angry at me for trying to protect off market buyers your anger is misplaced. As well as I earned that stuff. I at one time played this game way to much while recovering from an injury(severe too). So how I got rich is irrelevant what is relevant is that your from what i read a little jealous and skeptical of my intentions.

But this comment:

"The sheer stupidity of a "one-percenter" ranting and wailing about the other "one-percenters" is sort of hysterical. What's the real issue here? "I got mine, but damned if you should get yours?"

is putting the pain and suffering of the real world people that are the 99%ers and their cause into a video game. Your using bad logic and a somewhat flawed comparison to my super hero video game where i fight giant rocks and thorn bushes.

But if you want to please continue to rail against one of the few that are actually putting this out there.

So if you have something to say constructive I would love to hear it. I suspect its probably trivial and thats why even in a video game your 99%


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
And as far as me making my influ on the market honestly is very different than someone charging 1 bill over the cap for something that is currently as of this writing about 1.2-1.5 bill. Thats a 100% overcharge.
If somebody offered to sell you that 1.5b item for 100 million off-market, would you make that trade? Would it be unethical or "not nice" to do so? And if not, why is it OK to buy something below the going rate but not OK to sell something above it, as long as both parties agree on the price?

Plus, you have yet to demonstrate that this is actually happening to anyone, anywhere. I haven't seen anyone selling glad armor uniques in Freedom help chat for the last few weeks, (and if anyone tried, I suspect they'd be shouted down by people who are aware of the coming changes), other than one known scammer, and he's not really selling anything anyway. I find it difficult to believe that someone has more than 2b to spend on such items, but has not bothered to check the market for them (where they are guaranteed to get the item for 2b or less) at any point in the last few weeks.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
I realized that you think bad of people that are rich. But being angry at me for trying to protect off market buyers your anger is misplaced. As well as I earned that stuff. I at one time played this game way to much while recovering from an injury(severe too). So how I got rich is irrelevant what is relevant is that your from what i read a little jealous and skeptical of my intentions.

But this comment:

"The sheer stupidity of a "one-percenter" ranting and wailing about the other "one-percenters" is sort of hysterical. What's the real issue here? "I got mine, but damned if you should get yours?"

is putting the pain and suffering of the real world people that are the 99%ers and their cause into a video game. Your using bad logic and a somewhat flawed comparison to my super hero video game where i fight giant rocks and thorn bushes.

But if you want to please continue to rail against one of the few that are actually putting this out there.

So if you have something to say constructive I would love to hear it. I suspect its probably trivial and thats why even in a video game your 99%
/facepalm

anyone who wants to pay 3 bill for IO (or more) can. It's there inf. You don't have any business whatsoever in that transaction.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeling View Post
if somebody offered to sell you that 1.5b item for 100 million off-market, would you make that trade? Would it be unethical or "not nice" to do so? And if not, why is it ok to buy something below the going rate but not ok to sell something above it, as long as both parties agree on the price?

Plus, you have yet to demonstrate that this is actually happening to anyone, anywhere. I haven't seen anyone selling glad armor uniques in freedom help chat for the last few weeks, (and if anyone tried, i suspect they'd be shouted down by people who are aware of the coming changes), other than one known scammer, and he's not really selling anything anyway. I find it difficult to believe that someone has more than 2b to spend on such items, but has not bothered to check the market for them (where they are guaranteed to get the item for 2b or less) at any point in the last few weeks.
this!


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
And as far as me making my influ on the market honestly is very different than someone charging 1 bill over the cap for something that is currently as of this writing about 1.2-1.5 bill. Thats a 100% overcharge.
So if you buy a car for $50,000 from a dealer and later find out that another dealer was selling the same car for $28,000 due to a tax rebate, are you entitled to the $22,000 back? Did that first dealer rip you off?

No. You made the decision to buy at a certain price point. If you didn't have all the facts, there's nobody to blame but you.

Quote:
BUt that was deemed ok by the devs so nothing bad there.
Also notice that the devs aren't going out of their way to penalize people who facilitate transactions off-market. They're not going out of their way to make it easier to do so, but they're not criminalizing it or anything.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
If somebody offered to sell you that 1.5b item for 100 million off-market, would you make that trade? Would it be unethical or "not nice" to do so? And if not, why is it OK to buy something below the going rate but not OK to sell something above it, as long as both parties agree on the price?

Plus, you have yet to demonstrate that this is actually happening to anyone, anywhere. I haven't seen anyone selling glad armor uniques in Freedom help chat for the last few weeks, (and if anyone tried, I suspect they'd be shouted down by people who are aware of the coming changes), other than one known scammer, and he's not really selling anything anyway. I find it difficult to believe that someone has more than 2b to spend on such items, but has not bothered to check the market for them (where they are guaranteed to get the item for 2b or less) at any point in the last few weeks.
If somebody offered to sell you that 1.5b item for 100 million off-market, would you make that trade? Would it be unethical or "not nice" to do so? And if not, why is it OK to buy something below the going rate but not OK to sell something above it, as long as both parties agree on the price?

Try that with a car, milk, butter, a house, electricity, natural gas, propane, gold, silver, platinum, oil, the list oges on and on. Why cause you cant. Its unetical and illegal.




"Plus, you have yet to demonstrate that this is actually happening to anyone, anywhere. I haven't seen anyone selling glad armor uniques in Freedom help chat for the last few weeks, (and if anyone tried, I suspect they'd be shouted down by people who are aware of the coming changes), other than one known scammer, and he's not really selling anything anyway. I find it difficult to believe that someone has more than 2b to spend on such items, but has not bothered to check the market for them (where they are guaranteed to get the item for 2b or less) at any point in the last few weeks"


Here is something you request its just one of many examples. Happy now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
As of right now:

1.5 Billion on 1/26
2.0 Billion on 1/25
1.96 Billion on 1/25
2.0 Billion on 1/25
2.0 Billion on 1/25

With 14 for sale and 1,597 bids... you can still easily get 2 Billion.

Do it now before Converters go Live.

Selling a level 50 GladArmor +3% Defense IO that recently came into my possession. Asking price is 2 billion. Contact @Justaris in-game or send me a pm if interested in buying. Thanks.--this one is newer

yes its older dates but tis a current active post. Im just warning people and why shouldnt I. How could you assume that its ok to sell things at high prices.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
/facepalm

anyone who wants to pay 3 bill for IO (or more) can. It's there inf. You don't have any business whatsoever in that transaction.
No I do not have any business in that transaction I dont pretend to. However this thread is a warning to those that might do it.

Watch out. There is change a comin.

and for whatever reason you dont like that im doing this to warn people. Well quite frankly I do not care what you think.
I just dont want to see on the boards I just spent 2+ billion on something worth 300 mill. Wahh.

So i am letting the news out. I am sorry that this bothers you so much

But you seem terribly interested in my and this thread. May i ask why?