A brief, speculative muse on the Coming Storm
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2012-02-17 10:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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My impression is that the game in its early conception was heavily influenced by Lovecraft; with the Circle, the Coralax, Rularuu, Shivans, the original Battalion, and so on. (In addition to other influences, of course.)|
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
I actually think having gods be these special things apart from humanity is rather trite. Having them be human, or at least formerly mortal, prior to effectively apotheosizing strikes me as a lot more interesting and makes a lot more sense.
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Now it's more of a Star Wars / Green Lantern / D&D scenario, with players charging up at the Well and acting as Guardians of the Well, probably eventually to become Wells themselves (Omega slot?).
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Originally Posted by konshu
My impression is that the game in its early conception was heavily influenced by Lovecraft; with the Circle, the Coralax, Rularuu, Shivans, the original Battalion, and so on. (In addition to other influences, of course.)
Now it's more of a Star Wars / Green Lantern / D&D scenario, with players charging up at the Well and acting as Guardians of the Well, probably eventually to become Wells themselves (Omega slot?). |
That's a very interesting point - we become the greatest we can be... and then there needs to be something we must fight against.
Somebody above also said the Rikti have fought the Battalion off - which is interesting because as the game stands, we're pretty well stalemated with the Rikti at present. That could lead one to suspect the Battalion would be somewhat circumspect in their initial contact with us... plenty of fifth columnists (lower case variety) etc... The idea being if the Rikti and the Humans have fought each other to a standstill and the Rikti can beat the Battalion... then when the Rikti and Humans join forces to take on the Battalion...
Maybe with Statesman out of the way we can now be a bit more pro-active in making our world safe.
As for influences on the game they draw from many many sources but there's a lot of Squadron Supreme that just screams "City of Heroes" from its pages.
Thelonious Monk
Another possible plot point is that the Praetorian Well is just called a "version" of the Well of the Furies, which could imply that humanity shares one single Well across the multiverse, rather than having sepearte Wells for each dimension.
That would explain why the Battalion, which so far seems to only be in the Primal dimension, is also a threat to Praetorian Earth - and why the Rikti would be under threat too, as they could still be attached to the human Well in some way.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I would like to point out that we only stalemated with the Rikti because we sealed them off from their home dimension with magictheir one true weakness. From what I can gather, the capabilities of the Rikti on their homeworld is nothing to sneeze at and they would have decimated our world utterly if it wasn't for the Omega Team. The Rikti, after all, seem to have their own Incarnates (U'kon G'rai, anyone?) and even managed to Rikti-fy one of ours (Hero 1).|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Somebody above also said the Rikti have fought the Battalion off - which is interesting because as the game stands, we're pretty well stalemated with the Rikti at present. That could lead one to suspect the Battalion would be somewhat circumspect in their initial contact with us... plenty of fifth columnists (lower case variety) etc... The idea being if the Rikti and the Humans have fought each other to a standstill and the Rikti can beat the Battalion... then when the Rikti and Humans join forces to take on the Battalion...
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I wouldn't be surprised if their homeworld's resources rival that of the Battalion's.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Somebody above also said the Rikti have fought the Battalion off - which is interesting because as the game stands, we're pretty well stalemated with the Rikti at present. That could lead one to suspect the Battalion would be somewhat circumspect in their initial contact with us... plenty of fifth columnists (lower case variety) etc... The idea being if the Rikti and the Humans have fought each other to a standstill and the Rikti can beat the Battalion... then when the Rikti and Humans join forces to take on the Battalion...
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| The Battalion is an alien force the Rikti Lineage of War battled about 100 years ago. They were mentioned in The Hro'Dtohz file, a clue received in part four of Dreams of Peace and Acts of War arc from Serpent Drummer. |
I could certainly believe that once the power of the Battalion has been witnessed (or was Galaxy City enough?) we would certainly want to join forces with anyone who successfully beat them off in the past. A trip to the Rikti Homeworld anyone? I can but hope.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Originally Posted by Scythus
I would like to point out that we only stalemated with the Rikti because we sealed them off from their home dimension with magictheir one true weakness. From what I can gather, the capabilities of the Rikti on their homeworld is nothing to sneeze at and they would have decimated our world utterly if it wasn't for the Omega Team. The Rikti, after all, seem to have their own Incarnates (U'kon G'rai, anyone?) and even managed to Rikti-fy one of ours (Hero 1).
I wouldn't be surprised if their homeworld's resources rival that of the Battalion's. |
If that were the case surely they'd be back more frequently... Sure they have big nasties... but they aren't so nasty now we're Incarnates. Metahumans have increased exponentially since the Rikti first arrived.
Hell they don't even try invading any more cuz we kick their arses to kingdom come.
Thelonious Monk
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Well, what we were fighting in RWZ was a dripping faucet compared to what we stopped Hro'Dtohz from bringing in by the end of Dark Watcher's arc, which is what Earth's heroes stopped at the end of the First Rikti War. Not only that, but the Battalion fought the Rikti when the Rikti had the home team advantage, which I would imagine be the entire lake, metaphorically speaking. I'm not really sure what 'defeated' means when the fight is referenced in the RWZ arcs: if there's another, seperate Battalion in the universe the Rikti are from and it was completely wiped out, or if the Rikti fought off the same Battalion we're fighting now, and it came to this universe to try another angle.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
That's a very interesting point - we become the greatest we can be... and then there needs to be something we must fight against.
Somebody above also said the Rikti have fought the Battalion off - which is interesting because as the game stands, we're pretty well stalemated with the Rikti at present. |
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| ...then when the Rikti and Humans join forces to take on the Battalion... |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Another possible plot point is that the Praetorian Well is just called a "version" of the Well of the Furies, which could imply that humanity shares one single Well across the multiverse, rather than having sepearte Wells for each dimension.
That would explain why the Battalion, which so far seems to only be in the Primal dimension, is also a threat to Praetorian Earth - and why the Rikti would be under threat too, as they could still be attached to the human Well in some way. |
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
If that were the case surely they'd be back more frequently... Sure they have big nasties... but they aren't so nasty now we're Incarnates. Metahumans have increased exponentially since the Rikti first arrived.
Hell they don't even try invading any more cuz we kick their arses to kingdom come. |
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
Well, what we were fighting in RWZ was a dripping faucet compared to what we stopped Hro'Dtohz from bringing in by the end of Dark Watcher's arc, which is what Earth's heroes stopped at the end of the First Rikti War. Not only that, but the Battalion fought the Rikti when the Rikti had the home team advantage, which I would imagine be the entire lake, metaphorically speaking. I'm not really sure what 'defeated' means when the fight is referenced in the RWZ arcs: if there's another, seperate Battalion in the universe the Rikti are from and it was completely wiped out, or if the Rikti fought off the same Battalion we're fighting now, and it came to this universe to try another angle.
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In this respect, would it be possible that the Rikti attempted a similar gambit like we did in the first Rikti war? Perhaps they didn't so much send the Battalion off with their tails between their legs rather than find a clever way to stop the fighting before they got wiped out.
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Perhaps it sounds like personal opinion because I explicitly stated it as such. I was under the impression that "I actually think..." and "...strikes me as a lot more interesting..." were indicative of opinion. |
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
That sounds more like a personal opinion rather than intelligent speculation on the nature of such beings in the CoH universe. The truth is that two origins for godlike beings have been given so far in the canon and we don't know which, if not somehow both, remains true.
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Your jibe about "intelligent speculation" was irrelevant and unnecessary.
The truth is that one of those origins came from someone who couldn't possibly have been an eyewitness, and who could have been repeating received wisdom. She wouldn't be the first unreliable narrator in City of Heroes, nor the last.
The difference between what she has to say and what Prometheus has to say is that at least Prometheus was there for it. Of course, Prometheus limits himself to mentioning two names, but by extension that really should mark multiple others as incarnates as well, simply by association.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Well, who's to say Prometheus was around for it himself? Judging by the fact that his only reason for being involved in all of this, and for keeping a large portion of information about the Praetorian war quiet is due to a long standing grudge against the Well and a guy he thinks is the incarnate of a guy who hurt him before, I can't exactly trust the Giant Fiery Smurf in a toga.|
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
The truth is that one of those origins came from someone who couldn't possibly have been an eyewitness, and who could have been repeating received wisdom. She wouldn't be the first unreliable narrator in City of Heroes, nor the last.
The difference between what she has to say and what Prometheus has to say is that at least Prometheus was there for it. Of course, Prometheus limits himself to mentioning two names, but by extension that really should mark multiple others as incarnates as well, simply by association. |
That, and after reading both bits of information, neither seem to implicitly challenge or really touch upon what the other has said. War Witch focusses on entities that were around before prehistoric man, while Prometheus focusses on entities that were brought to light during Ancient Greece. Until one directly challenges the other, it's entirely possible that both things hold true.
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If he is the Prometheus he was by definition around for it before.|
Originally Posted by ArticulateT
Well, who's to say Prometheus was around for it himself? Judging by the fact that his only reason for being involved in all of this, and for keeping a large portion of information about the Praetorian war quiet is due to a long standing grudge against the Well and a guy he thinks is the incarnate of a guy who hurt him before, I can't exactly trust the Giant Fiery Smurf in a toga.
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Also, his skin color is irrelevant to his reliability as a narrator (which I do not say is 100% reliable, but that he is more likely to have accurate information than someone who repeats received wisdom).
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| That, and after reading both bits of information, neither seem to implicitly challenge or really touch upon what the other has said. War Witch focusses on entities that were around before prehistoric man, while Prometheus focusses on entities that were brought to light during Ancient Greece. Until one directly challenges the other, it's entirely possible that both things hold true. |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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As I said, they can't come back because there's a magical barrier blocking their world from ours.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
If that were the case surely they'd be back more frequently...
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Bluh... the Lady of the lake _is_ the Well of the Furies, Excalibur, Hero-One, I can't believe I haven't seen that before. Prometheus does say that the Well is/was a person who has chosen to represent the connection of the race in question to a "Higher power"| They say that now it's hunting through space for the "Blue Maiden" - which is hinted to be Earth and the human Well. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
and why the Rikti would be under threat too, as they could still be attached to the human Well in some way.
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Maybe that's why the Rikti beat their Batallion, due to not having a "local" Well to be drained, having some remote race that protects it for them. Maybe that's what the Rikti's benefactors were trying to do, spread the power and harmony of their Well far and wide to act as a buffer against the Batallion?
Personally, I still don't trust Promentheus as far as I can throw him and his natty toga. There's something about the way he's written that makes me take everything he says with a large dose of salt. I guess I've never really liked know-it-all characters who spout explanations to us, I've always far preferred to read the clues in missions and learn that way. I guess we'll see.
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To which I've never understood why we couldn't do the same to Praetoria given that they appear to be mostly all technology based. It's times like this I miss the 'Fodder for the Canon' thread where we could at least ask these questions of the writers. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
As I said, they can't come back because there's a magical barrier blocking their world from ours.
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@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
As discussed in a previous thread covering this subject, the Well of the Furies seems to be defined as more like a natural Force - one that represents a Race's Potential rather than, say, Gravity. In a way, the Well is more of a psionic or preternatural construct rather than a truly magical entity. It feeds on and is empowered by human achievement, becoming a wellspring from which inspiration and power can be manifested to overcome physical or psychological limitations. Even beings that do not draw superhuman benefits from it from it remain passively associated with it. It is what separates humanity from the animals in the CoX continuity. In at least that capacity, it is much like the Speed Force in DC's "continuity".
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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Well, appearances aside, we don't want to seal off access to Praetoria because this time we have to defeat the opponent. According to Prometheus, that is.
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Originally Posted by Dante
To which I've never understood why we couldn't do the same to Praetoria given that they appear to be mostly all technology based.
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61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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from the wiki:|
Originally Posted by ArticulateT
Well, Deities and Incarnates are pretty much seperate things, but I think the Leviathan is the Incarnate of Meluria, isn't it?
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For millennia, a godlike being as old as the cosmos itself floated free across the universe. As the fetid swamps of the Earth’s Cretaceous Period began to recede, this god Merulina crashed into the turbid waters of the expanding Atlantic. Settling into the ocean depths, the deity conjured followers, calling forth the Coralax from the incandescent coral thriving in the warm shallows. Made from coral imbued with Merulina’s divine essence, the first Coralax were Shapers, high priests meant to lead the burgeoning Coralax civilization Merulina instructed these Shapers, who were psychically connected to the thoughts and feelings of their god, to construct a beautiful city over its body now deeply embedded in the ocean floor. The brilliant multicolor spires and sweeping arches of the city now radiate a luminous aura from the otherwise blackened depths. This city of coral with a god at its heart is the enchanted capital of the Coralax Empire. In firm control of their watery domain, the Coralax were suddenly thrust into confusion when the god Merulina fell silent. As the Shapers cast about with no god to guide them, the threats from the surface began. With no god to direct them, the Coralax began building watchtowers just off the Earth’s coastlines in order to maintain a vigilant watch over this growing threat from the surface. ................... It is revealed in Vincent Ross's story arc that Merulina's silence is due to her death. Intrigued by an object crash landing on the mainland, she decided to investigate. She was overcome by a mysterious shadowy figure, and died. However, it is further revealed that immense power, of the type Merulina wielded, is never lost - only transferred. When Calystix the Shaper summoned forth the Leviathan, the power of Merulina was what truly created and empowered the massive beast (although Calystix did not know the true source of its power). |
i would personally like to see more of the wells and incarnates of other races/species. and more involvement of the coralax, and i would also like to know what the "mysterious shadowy figure" she encountered was.
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Originally Posted by Serva_Obscura
Bluh... the Lady of the lake _is_ the Well of the Furies, Excalibur, Hero-One, I can't believe I haven't seen that before. Prometheus does say that the Well is/was a person who has chosen to represent the connection of the race in question to a "Higher power"
Isn't it possible that the Riktification process ties them to their benefactors well? Their outlook, society, physical form and powers are much more coherent, while we don't know what their benefactors were like it those seem like they could be symptoms of being tied to another Well. Maybe that's why the Rikti beat their Batallion, due to not having a "local" Well to be drained, having some remote race that protects it for them. Maybe that's what the Rikti's benefactors were trying to do, spread the power and harmony of their Well far and wide to act as a buffer against the Batallion? |
complicated but interesting idea.
Also, as an Incarate and especially of the instant-variety, I would kind of like to see Stheno be... interesting... and powerful... Since Recluse and his rocky relationship with power and the well, and Stheno so close to him location wise...
idk...
make SOMETHING happen plz? spider-snake babies? spiders riding snakes? shooting bees? :shrug:
anything?
no? they gonna sit by as their source of power is destroyed by an intergalaca-dimensional force?
Sorry to derail this, but based on current events, I suspect that the next major threat will not be the Battalion or the Coming Storm, but either Rularuu or Mot.
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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Mot is dealt with by the end of the DA content |
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
Sorry to derail this, but based on current events, I suspect that the next major threat will not be the Battalion or the Coming Storm, but either Rularuu or Mot.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Speaking of Mot, I remember a specific, low class spoiler where [name removed due to spoilerness] tells you that Mot's corruption became so far reaching, most of Chicago was devoured.
I'd love to see the ruins of Chicago be a zone. Perhaps something has been dwelling in lake Michigan that was upset by the commotion on land?
I would also like to see something with Sstheno, though a Snakes based iTrial may be a marmite affair
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Mot is dealt with by the end of the DA content
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Quite so.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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They appear to be technology based, but when one considers Praetorian Infernal, Diabolique, etc., such appearances are deceiving. The Praetorians have magic, it's just that it appears to be a domain exclusive to Emperor Cole and his Praetors.|
Originally Posted by Dante
To which I've never understood why we couldn't do the same to Praetoria given that they appear to be mostly all technology based. It's times like this I miss the 'Fodder for the Canon' thread where we could at least ask these questions of the writers.
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Oh, and those exiled to First Ward.
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Yeah but Mot's buddies are still about and probably quite angry that they did not get freed.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Mot is dealt with by the end of the DA content
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(Then again, the Battalion is probably more like a force composed of several different species with the 'Dark Father's' forces calling all the shots among them. Still, there's nothing saying that those species haven't been significantly altered in some way, moving traits from one to others to create different kinds of soldiers, sort of like the Combine forces in the HL2 canon. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Battalion turned out to be quite like the Combine, but altered with a comic book flair.)
I am taking Prometheus' statement with a grain of salt -- the Rikti beat the Battalion, after all -- but the only way for the Battalion to appear as a credible threat in the near future is to have them get very cheaty on Day One of their arrival, which they should because they know that we already know they're coming and because they know there are Incarnates on Earth. The challenge the writers have is that to make the Battalion a credible threat, there must be the impression that our characters, and Earth, really could lose this time, no matter how much the players expect to win.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)