A brief, speculative muse on the Coming Storm
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2012-02-17 10:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Uh, yeah... about that.... No it doesn't.|
Originally Posted by FlashToo
Nah... it's Rularuu. Stormwatcher badge confirms it.
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However, as has been pointed out, Rularuu is still very much involved. It's almost like a certain someone has a plot, you might say, to use Rularuu when the Coming Storm of the Battalion arrives.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Uh, yeah... about that.... No it doesn't.
However, as has been pointed out, Rularuu is still very much involved. It's almost like a certain someone has a plot, you might say, to use Rularuu when the Coming Storm of the Battalion arrives. |
You're just paranoid. I'm sure there is no plot. Come, let us mend that apophenia of yours!
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I swear it's true! I will not be ridiculed for my discoveries. Rularuu is a loaded warhead, waiting in one of this demented mastermind's silos.
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
You're just paranoid. I'm sure there is no plot. Come, let us mend that apophenia of yours!
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That's it in a nutshell for me. For me, the Battalion was more fearsome when they didn't have a Well munching fetish to them. To worry about them wanting to consume our Well means you kind of have to give two hoots about our Well which, quite frankly, I don't. I'd far rather have a foe that wants to consume everything like Rularuu rather than honing in on a meta-plot artefact that I care nothing for. |
Originally Posted by Tyger
From what I can surmise: it's the difference between the early Borg in Next Generation "You will be assimilated" no negotiation, no exceptions and the Voyager Borg with the Queen and her yuri-like crush on Seven of Nine as well as the ships getting blown up every other episode they showed up in. Sure they were more visually impressive as the post-movie upgrade but something was lost; terror.
They were no longer a force to be avoided. Instead they became the technological buffet car that got ransacked whenever they decided "we need an upgrade that the Borg have". I know it was because the series would be over in one episode if the Borg acted like the Borg of old but there could've been a better way of getting round it. That and the Well is just a bad plot device to justify Incarnate powers being for everyone. |
But anyway, this isn't helpful. My dislike of current Well Lore is detracting from discussion about the Battalion as it stands now rather than what it might have been. So I apologise for the derail.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Originally Posted by Dante
That's it in a nutshell for me. For me, the Battalion was more fearsome when they didn't have a Well munching fetish to them. To worry about them wanting to consume our Well means you kind of have to give two hoots about our Well which, quite frankly, I don't. I'd far rather have a foe that wants to consume everything like Rularuu rather than honing in on a meta-plot artefact that I care nothing for.
But anyway, this isn't helpful. My dislike of current Well Lore is detracting from discussion about the Battalion as it stands now rather than what it might have been. So I apologise for the derail. |
To be fair, what you've described sounds rather like the plot of Marvel's Annihilation series, so if they retained exactly that concept it's probably a game killer.
I've gone to visit Prometheus and spent a good hour or more reading and rereading his sordid little tail. [sic - good enough for Carroll, good enough for me]
I'm convinced that he is "The Well" that we are dealing with and he's giving Cole his power, whilst setting us against him because he's scared by the Battalion and that's meant his tale's between his legs [I did it again, sorry.]
He's clearly having a loose bowel moment over this, and is essentially arranging an arena fight between us and Tyrant, and the winner gets to be his champion and fight the Battalion and stop him being eaten. He's doing it remotely because he knows if we suss him out, then he's got nothing left - and so he's gone to the end of time and is trying to manipulate us from the base of the (not very) Grand Schemer Nemesis - and if we find out we'd just tell him to GTFO. So he has to manipulate us from a distance - almost as though we're his Champions Online [ Ok, I'll stop now, I promise]
Two other things I noticed from speaking wtih him: No mention of the TPN or MoM trials - which seems to be a curious oversight. More importantly - he's scared of us. I'm undecided about the writing - some of it's pretty ham fisted, but I'm not going to open that can of worms here - but some is subtle as though he's saying: "I can control Tyrant, but I don't think he's up to the job of saving me, but I can't control a whole bunch of heroes to that extent, so I must give them free will and beg them to save me." He needs us, but once we've gotten that power the genie's out of the bottle and there's no going back. It could be that by saving him, we emasculate him - which is a subtle take on Cronus and his castrating Uranus.
There are other wells out there, and Prometheus has told us that Zeus was one of the first Incarnates - but just a man. The Titans could well be the other Wells, the original Incarnates - there are clearly others around - we've just not met them.
Maybe that's for the future - we save Prometheus from Battalion, and then he summons his brother Titans to save himself from us.
Thelonious Monk
Aren't virtually all of components of the Rularuu crazy, except for that HUGE BLUE JERK that nobody thought to give a cellphone to? I think it'd be hard to call in Rularuu's assistance against the Battalion.
Plus waking up a chaos god doesn't seem like a good idea. Isn't Rularuu's mind the entire dimension when he's actually awake? He must've munched every Well in his universe. And the OTHER universes he consumed.
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He does - after the Underground Trial, there's a text option to tell him that we're planning to use TPN to broadcast the truth about Tyrant to Praetoria - but he just says that it'll be a waste of time, without actually telling us that he knows what Mother Mayhem is planning.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Two other things I noticed from speaking wtih him: No mention of the TPN or MoM trials - which seems to be a curious oversight.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Amen brother. They might as well have said characters had the potentional to become incarnates because they have high midi-chlorian levels.
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Originally Posted by Tyger
That and the Well is just a bad plot device to justify Incarnate powers being for everyone.
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_________
@Inquisitor
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I don't think anyone aside from a certain far flung future version of a master plotter thought using Rularuu to fight the Battalion was a good idea. There's a reason why a certain prolific author we keep running into is distinctly upset about the whole issue.
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Originally Posted by Iannis
Aren't virtually all of components of the Rularuu crazy, except for that HUGE BLUE JERK that nobody thought to give a cellphone to? I think it'd be hard to call in Rularuu's assistance against the Battalion.
Plus waking up a chaos god doesn't seem like a good idea. Isn't Rularuu's mind the entire dimension when he's actually awake? He must've munched every Well in his universe. And the OTHER universes he consumed. |
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Originally Posted by Dante
That's it in a nutshell for me. For me, the Battalion was more fearsome when they didn't have a Well munching fetish to them. To worry about them wanting to consume our Well means you kind of have to give two hoots about our Well which, quite frankly, I don't. I'd far rather have a foe that wants to consume everything like Rularuu rather than honing in on a meta-plot artefact that I care nothing for.
But anyway, this isn't helpful. My dislike of current Well Lore is detracting from discussion about the Battalion as it stands now rather than what it might have been. So I apologise for the derail. |
I'm having a hard time understanding this sentiment.
The Well = Humanity. It is everything we are and we are everything that is it. It is our collected potential, will, and the force to use them. It is the scientist that is driven to create feats of technological impossibility, the mutant that learns to control his genetics with resolve, the natural warrior who learns how to go +7.5% faster with a little gamble most think unnatural; the Battalion are coming to consume us, everything we are.
Good lord, isn't it MORE awful that they might take our Well and LEAVE US intact, doomed to wander without merit and will? Sure, getting eaten might suck, but... *shiver* imagine if they didn't!
I'm also still, honestly, quite intrigued by a species so powerful the Shivans are their scouts and herald and use intergalactic beings (Kheldians) as their fuel.
If that doesn't excite you or scare you, well, my friend, you've skydived a few too many times and have blown an adrenal gland.
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
I'm having a hard time understanding this sentiment.
The Well = Humanity. It is everything we are and we are everything that is it. It is our collected potential, will, and the force to use them. It is the scientist that is driven to create feats of technological impossibility, the mutant that learns to control his genetics with resolve, the natural warrior who learns how to go +7.5% faster with a little gamble most think unnatural; the Battalion are coming to consume us, everything we are. Good lord, isn't it MORE awful that they might take our Well and LEAVE US intact, doomed to wander without merit and will? Sure, getting eaten might suck, but... *shiver* imagine if they didn't! I'm also still, honestly, quite intrigued by a species so powerful the Shivans are their scouts and herald and use intergalactic beings (Kheldians) as their fuel. If that doesn't excite you or scare you, well, my friend, you've skydived a few too many times and have blown an adrenal gland. |
I guess it depends what floats your boat. The Battalion as they were appeared as a Cthulu or Unicron type entity. It didn't matter about your alignment, beliefs, weapons, powers... you were getting consumed, end of. That's a threat: a foe who you are nothing more to than a light snack.
Bear in mind that IMHO, the Well is, as others have described, a bad plot device and something that should never have been brought to the forefront of the plot and it's hard for me to care that much about it. Using Shivans as scouts and other species as fuel is intreguing and very epic hence why I've been excited about the Coming Storm since they were first mentioned.
In short, the Battalion were already an exciting, epic threat to me from how they were built up in the first place and I hope they still will be. Adding the Well into the plot does nothing for me other than make me groan in the knowledge that we'll have to put up with yet more nonsense about the Well in the future. I guess YMMV as they say.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
To me, the Well wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the only way one could increase their powers beyond that of a normal being. It seems very magic based to me. I would have loved it if they kinda had a story for each specific origin, for example:
Science Origins could delve into research with the aid of Dr. Aeon or some other big wig science guy to adjust your structure on a near Atomic level, or come up with some kind of chemical that can increase your potential beyond what you expected.
Mutants could have a go at Gene splicing to the point where they technically aren't Human (or whatever race they mutated from) anymore.
It would also help if they didn't pass off the risk of control with a kind of Deus Ex Machina sort of deal where you are a 'slow' path Incarnate. Considering the fact that the Well can't control you 24/7, while good because it would be difficult to impliment it in game mechanics, would be bad because you lose the Risk/Reward ratio altogether.
The big shock factor behind it was that you're putting your trust in an entity that, at the time, we knew next to nothing about. When you can, in the process of a single hour, steal a large portion of its strength with basically no consequence makes the entire thing trivial, and therefore not exciting.
Ever since the introduction of Mot I have had a Theory on the The Coming Storm, We currently have Mot and The Banished Pantheon, The 5th and the Nictus, Preatorean Hamidon, Tyrant and the IDF, The Well, Ouroboros, The Letter Writer, Rularuu and the Rularuu-Shin, Darin Wade, The Battalion, The Rikti, The Furies, and with the recent events of this spring fling it looks like Arachnos may be coming back as a threat all at once.
This is the freaking Ragnarok, every major power we know about is coming into the fray at once, and we have a Jormungandr under sharkhead.
"...and we have a Jormungandr under sharkhead"
Who is an Incarnate as well.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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I like the sentiment but that's not what I understand the Well to be - were it to be so it'd be much more pleasing. However my understanding is that the Well is a separate and distinct entity that's little more than a lunatic psychotic witha lot of power - however it's not humanity. Conclusion; either I've missed something or it's written so poorly the meaning is lost in delivery. |
Originally Posted by RadDidIt
I'm having a hard time understanding this sentiment.
The Well = Humanity. It is everything we are and we are everything that is it. It is our collected potential, will, and the force to use them. It is the scientist that is driven to create feats of technological impossibility, the mutant that learns to control his genetics with resolve, the natural warrior who learns how to go +7.5% faster with a little gamble most think unnatural; the Battalion are coming to consume us, everything we are. Good lord, isn't it MORE awful that they might take our Well and LEAVE US intact, doomed to wander without merit and will? Sure, getting eaten might suck, but... *shiver* imagine if they didn't! I'm also still, honestly, quite intrigued by a species so powerful the Shivans are their scouts and herald and use intergalactic beings (Kheldians) as their fuel. If that doesn't excite you or scare you, well, my friend, you've skydived a few too many times and have blown an adrenal gland. |
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Originally Posted by Dante
I guess it depends what floats your boat. The Battalion as they were appeared as a Cthulu or Unicron type entity. It didn't matter about your alignment, beliefs, weapons, powers... you were getting consumed, end of. That's a threat: a foe who you are nothing more to than a light snack.
Bear in mind that IMHO, the Well is, as others have described, a bad plot device and something that should never have been brought to the forefront of the plot and it's hard for me to care that much about it. Using Shivans as scouts and other species as fuel is intreguing and very epic hence why I've been excited about the Coming Storm since they were first mentioned. In short, the Battalion were already an exciting, epic threat to me from how they were built up in the first place and I hope they still will be. Adding the Well into the plot does nothing for me other than make me groan in the knowledge that we'll have to put up with yet more nonsense about the Well in the future. I guess YMMV as they say. |
Obviously - we know we cannot lose the fight against the Coming Storm, whatever entity it is - because if we do, then it's literally Game Over... so I don't envy the challenge the Devs have to meet, especially the writers.
In my opinion, the game has come on in leaps and bounds since GR arrived in terms of graphics, shiny and the new powersets are a lot of fun. Many of the mechanics are great too... but the writing hasn't reached the same level of awesome. Let's hope that the Coming Storm addresses that.
Thelonious Monk
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Can you be an Incarnate if you are an actual god? Cause I think The Leviathan is actually a God of some sort.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
"...and we have a Jormungandr under sharkhead"
Who is an Incarnate as well. |
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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
Can you be an Incarnate if you are an actual god? Cause I think The Leviathan is actually a God of some sort.
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Well, Deities and Incarnates are pretty much seperate things, but I think the Leviathan is the Incarnate of Meluria, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
Can you be an Incarnate if you are an actual god? Cause I think The Leviathan is actually a God of some sort.
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Originally Posted by ArticulateT
Well, Deities and Incarnates are pretty much seperate things, but I think the Leviathan is the Incarnate of Meluria, isn't it?
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This was dialogue I read after I did the BAF and Lambda for the first time.
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I was under the impression Deities differ from Incarnates in that Deities require praise to thrive.|
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
As I recall, Prometheus states that gods are incarnates, and that the reason you have Statesman and Imperious being incarnates of Zeus is that they inherited Zeus' power (which suggests that Zeus is dead, based on his other explanations).
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It's the explaination given when you go fight Hequat in Scirocco's arc as to why a mere mortal can stand up to a god. She lacks as many worshippers as she did back in her pre-Ermeeth glory days.
Edit for more information:
Actually, I've just gone and read what Prometheus has had to say about the Well. He only says Zeus and Tartarus were incarnates, he doesn't explicitly state all gods are Incarnates. Zeus and Tartarus were humans who became Incarnates of a concept shared within humanity. War Witch gives a very detailed history on Gods and Spirits in the Origin of Magic
Actually, Prometheus specifies that Zeus and Tartarus were human incarnates. He didn't make a sweeping statement about gods.
I am inclined to believe that gods in general are incarnates, although not always necessarily human. I am also inclined to believe that Scirocco probably isn't an expert on deific theory.
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Perhaps not, but I'm under the impression War Witch knows what she's talking about. I guess whether Gods are or are not Incarnates will be a matter that is up for debate for a while, if it hasn't been already, especially if the existance of deities requires praise, and incarnates don't need praise, chances are, there wouldn't be a war over whether Ermeeth should have given the humans magic.
However, Prometheus does point out that basically all power is connected to the Well, so deities aren't seperate from it in a slightest.
I don't see that requiring praise necessarily means that a deity couldn't be an incarnate. After all, Magus in Marvel draws power from worship. Gladiator's powers wax and wane in relation to his self confidence and faith in himself. There's an NPC in Mutants & Masterminds: Paragons who becomes more powerful from positive attention.
And I don't know why War Witch would know anything about how Incarnates work, either. The number of characters who did know were fairly small, and most of them were paragons themselves, I think. Statesman tried to conceal the source of his powers for a long time.
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Meanwhile, Prometheus says|
Originally Posted by War Witch
The world was once full of gods. As of yet there was no magic as we would think of it today, only the powers of the divine and the spirit. These spirits were reflections of the greater Gaia that encompasses all of earthly existence.
Long before our predecessors used the first rock as a tool, these spirits knew sentience, intelligence, song and poetry. They, in turn, taught these wonders to humankind, guiding them up the long ladder of evolution. In return, the spirits fed and thrived upon the emotional and psychic devotion of their human proteges. |
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Originally Posted by Prometheus
All an Incarnate truly is, ultimately, is a person who has reached the pinnacle of super-powers that can be achieved in a mortal lifetime and who then accepts the greater power offered by the Well.
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Again, I could be wrong, there might be a large chunk of things I'm missing out, but right now, I'm thinking the two things can be seperate.
Anyway, getting sidetracked.
As for the Battalion, I'm half expecting the situation to be something fairly spectacular. However, writing-wise, if the Devs are following the sorting algorithm to evil, I'm wondering what we could possibly fight other than Rularuu that would be a bigger challenge.
And considering Rularuu already has such a large tie-in with the Coming Storm, would we be facing something new?
War Witch wasn't there and what she said has a sense of myth to it. She's not a firsthand witness.
I actually think having gods be these special things apart from humanity is rather trite. Having them be human, or at least formerly mortal, prior to effectively apotheosizing strikes me as a lot more interesting and makes a lot more sense.
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They were no longer a force to be avoided. Instead they became the technological buffet car that got ransacked whenever they decided "we need an upgrade that the Borg have". I know it was because the series would be over in one episode if the Borg acted like the Borg of old but there could've been a better way of getting round it.
That and the Well is just a bad plot device to justify Incarnate powers being for everyone.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union