So, why does the Mastermind ATO set suck?
By
BenRGamer,
Posted on: 2012-02-14 19:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
It's.. recharge enhancement, on a set that can only be slotted in a Pet power.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Because what other possible powerset combination could really matter, once you've gone Demons/Storm?
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Unless you mean you're really having trouble keeping one of your Demons alive, that doesn't make any sense.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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The other ATs ones aren't as bad as this. Most of them are downright fantastic.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
They probably gave the assignment to someone that while on the dev team has no idea what bonuses would have been better for each AT.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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I'm sure more of the issue is that the majority of the ATO enhancement breakdowns are carbon copied between eachother, which works for most ATs. MMs are an exception in that they don't slot quite the same as many other ATs and this wasn't taken into consideration.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
They probably gave the assignment to someone that while on the dev team has no idea what bonuses would have been better for each AT.
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Depends on AT. If your AT has high damage mods (scrappers, blasters, doms, stalkers) then all those +dmg setbonuses are fabulous, and getting ~20% from set bonuses can be a good and easily obtainable dps increase. On the other hand if you have low dmg modifiers (like Brutes) you probably won't even notice the +dmg bonuses you have.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
On a personal note, I feel that damage bonuses are kind of "meh" as a whole...
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And understanding bodyguard mode would be incredibly useful for Masterminds, as long as their pets understand proper AI...
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
My only gripe with your post is that max HP is incredibly useful for Masterminds, as long as they understand bodyguard mode.
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I'm really not a fan of the set. The bonuses won't beat a set of Blood mandate, and yay the unique proc is another defense aura. Not to mention the wonkyness with having recharge as a heavy aspect of a MM set.
Switch the Damage bonus (set) to accuracy, At least one resist bonus to a positional defense, and the the enhancement aspect of the proc to Endurance instead of recharge.
I'd also would have liked something more Unique for the Proc, like resistance to BG mode damage or something.
But ah well, We're Masterminds. We're hardcore badass SoBs who drink the tears of AVs and bathe in the blood of GMs. I won't loose sleep over it.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Quote:
Accuracy would be... better, I guess. Not ideal, but better.
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Originally Posted by William_Valence
Switch the Damage bonus (set) to accuracy, At least one resist bonus to a positional defense, and the the enhancement aspect of the proc to Endurance instead of recharge.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
The set does indeed suck. But if you have any recharge intensive pets (say Gang War) you can slot the aoe defense in that instead of a henchman.
_________
@Inquisitor
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That is unfortunately the only currently viable use for the set. It just should not be the case.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
The set does indeed suck. But if you have any recharge intensive pets (say Gang War) you can slot the aoe defense in that instead of a henchman.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Of course it sucks! The devs hate masterminds! Our feedback fell on deaf ears.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
The title pretty much says it all. Why is there only one remotely useful set bonus in the Mastermind ATO set (being +Recharge, which isn't even good for every Mastermind primary/secondary combo)?
Damage set bonuses don't effect pets, which makes that utterly useless, Masterminds have the lowest base HP in the game, so a maxhp bonus is trivial, and resistance bonuses are only remotely valuable when you already have a lot of resistance to add them to, which, obviously, a Mastermind does not - not that their resistance hard caps are high enough for it to matter anyway. Could we get some of these changed to something relevant, like Defense, which at least gives a feasible boost to survivability when stacked, or recovery, for the end. heavy secondaries? |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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That seems to happen ... a lot ... when people don't raise a stink within 24 hours of the release of information about new stuff ... and sometimes even if we do, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever ... {shudders in memory of the explosively negative reaction to ED and GDN nerfs prior to CoV melting the Forum software and knocking them offline for days(!), and then watching the *HATED* nerfs go Live anyway, without changes, because Devs WOULDN'T LISTEN}.
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
Our feedback fell on deaf ears.
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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"Listening to you" does not mean "doing exactly what you say".|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
That seems to happen ... a lot ... when people don't raise a stink within 24 hours of the release of information about new stuff ... and sometimes even if we do, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever ... {shudders in memory of the explosively negative reaction to ED and GDN nerfs prior to CoV melting the Forum software and knocking them offline for days(!), and then watching the *HATED* nerfs go Live anyway, without changes, because Devs WOULDN'T LISTEN}.
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There certainly are issues that the devs have failed to listen to at the time, ED and the GDN were not two those times. The devs listened to the feedback on those issues and decided that those gameplay changes were still required despite the negative feedback.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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I cannot believe anyone would still be bitter over GDN and ED. They were necessary changes that happened a long damn time ago.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
That seems to happen ... a lot ... when people don't raise a stink within 24 hours of the release of information about new stuff ... and sometimes even if we do, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever ... {shudders in memory of the explosively negative reaction to ED and GDN nerfs prior to CoV melting the Forum software and knocking them offline for days(!), and then watching the *HATED* nerfs go Live anyway, without changes, because Devs WOULDN'T LISTEN}.
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Also, as stated, just because they didn't act on the collective whine doesn't mean they didn't listen.
Please try to be mature about it. You've had years to grow up.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Will it slot into Gang War? Not that I am excusing the complaint. I am just trying to figure out if it can help there.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
It's.. recharge enhancement, on a set that can only be slotted in a Pet power.
Unless you mean you're really having trouble keeping one of your Demons alive, that doesn't make any sense. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Are you kidding? I don't think some people are ever going to let those go. Which I would like to ask those people "aren't you glad that is the worst thing that has ever happened to you in your entire life?"
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I cannot believe anyone would still be bitter over GDN and ED. They were necessary changes that happened a long damn time ago.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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It's also great for, say, Hell on Earth. And since Tornado in the secondary also accepts Recharge Intensive Pet sets, you don't necessarily even have to give up those procs either.|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
It's.. recharge enhancement, on a set that can only be slotted in a Pet power.
Unless you mean you're really having trouble keeping one of your Demons alive, that doesn't make any sense. |
Well, the same could be said for Thugs and Necromancy, since they have similar powers, but none of them are as stylin' as Demons/Storm.
I thought the big AoE def bonus was sort of nice. They probably didn't want to just do another +3% to all DEF.
Think set bonuses just usually sort of suck for MMs in general. The archetype enhancement reflects the IO enhancement...what do MMs go for, just +DEF and +HP? i never bothered spending the money on setting one out since they don't get much from it (compared to my scrappers or broots that turn into SMASHMACHINES with a mountain of set bonuses)
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Yes, it will.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Will it slot into Gang War? Not that I am excusing the complaint. I am just trying to figure out if it can help there.
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(Superior) Command of the Mastermind can be slotted into the following non-primary-pet-summon powers:
Gang War
Hell on Earth
Soul Extraction
Tornado
Don't ask me why, I have no idea. At least the ever popular Demons/Storm has another option, assuming it doesn't get changed at some point.
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I cannot believe anyone would still be bitter over GDN and ED. They were necessary changes that happened a long damn time ago.
Also, as stated, just because they didn't act on the collective whine doesn't mean they didn't listen. Please try to be mature about it. You've had years to grow up. |
Those who do not anticipate the future are doomed to resent it.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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The enhancement values work out okay for Hell on Earth, yes, but the set bonuses make the set worse than both the Recharge Intensive Pet sets that currently exist, as both of them are pretty nice. This still leaves us with the best use of our ATO set being to mule the proc in an oddball power and forget the rest exists |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
It's also great for, say, Hell on Earth. And since Tornado in the secondary also accepts Recharge Intensive Pet sets, you don't necessarily even have to give up those procs either.
Well, the same could be said for Thugs and Necromancy, since they have similar powers, but none of them are as stylin' as Demons/Storm. |
As a general response to the direction the thread is going, please try to stay positive. Dev-bashing will not do us any good if we want to see anything changed.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Originally Posted by Iannis
I thought the big AoE def bonus was sort of nice. They probably didn't want to just do another +3% to all DEF.
Think set bonuses just usually sort of suck for MMs in general. The archetype enhancement reflects the IO enhancement...what do MMs go for, just +DEF and +HP? i never bothered spending the money on setting one out since they don't get much from it (compared to my scrappers or broots that turn into SMASHMACHINES with a mountain of set bonuses) |
Masterminds typically build for +Def, +Recovery/+Endurance, +Recharge, and (as Dechs points out) +HP, for most secondaries. A select few like /Force Fields have even fewer viable set bonus goals, and mostly just take any +Def possible.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Okay, I've duly tested and the Recharge Enhancement attribute (and Global Recharge from the set bonus) will quite happily affect how quickly you can summon your henchmen.|
Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Absolutely - well aware of that but I had it in my head somewhere that it was changed so that there was NO benefit in Recharge at all. I'd test it but I'm at work right now
The fact that the Pet Damage sets have zero Recharge (and there's separate Recharge Intensive Pet sets) seems to bear this out. |
It is, however, THE worst thing to enhance for on a Mastermind summon. A better idea (in my mind) would be a "Special" option which boosts a secondary function of any given henchman (like Heal/Def for Protector Bots, Heal/Res for Ember Demons, etc. [with pure damage Henches getting a mini-buildup chance])
The AoE Def special hancie is not awful, but it seems that way when it is paired with Recharge and you may well have to forgo something critical in a primary Summon!
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This... is an absolutely fantastic idea.
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
It is, however, THE worst thing to enhance for on a Mastermind summon. A better idea (in my mind) would be a "Special" option which boosts a secondary function of any given henchman (like Heal/Def for Protector Bots, Heal/Res for Ember Demons, etc. [with pure damage Henches getting a mini-buildup chance])
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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So do us a favor and learn from the history that the change was needed, that the people who were whining were wrong, and that the devs did listen to them anyway, but just didn't change their minds because it was still the right thing to do.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not anticipate the future are doomed to resent it. |
Then get over it.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
They probably gave the assignment to someone that while on the dev team has no idea what bonuses would have been better for each AT.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.