So, why does the Mastermind ATO set suck?
By
BenRGamer,
Posted on: 2012-02-14 19:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Just noticed another little point of irritation: The one potentially useful piece of the set, being the defense aura, is attached to a Recharge enhancement bonus. Whoopie. The stat that doesn't actually do anything at all for the pet it's slotted in. Great idea.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
My only gripe with your post is that max HP is incredibly useful for Masterminds, as long as they understand bodyguard mode.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I was under the impression that recharge enhancements in pet summoning powers caused pet summoning powers to recharge faster. Which, admittedly, is only useful when your pets are dying a lot, but still, not useless.
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Bodyguard isn't something everyone uses, it has little do with understanding it, rather it's more about whether you need it or not. I never use bodyguard because I've never required the survivability for anything in this game on my nin/dark, 45% ranged defense with copious amounts of -tohit and -dmg on top is more than enough.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
My only gripe with your post is that max HP is incredibly useful for Masterminds, as long as they understand bodyguard mode.
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Overall the MM set is awful. The only thing that sets it apart from current pet sets (since that's what you'd be replacing) is the recharge and the proc. I'm putting ATOs in all my toons except my MM, even the proc (not because the proc is bad, but because I have no room for it).
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Incredibly useful is an overstatement of epic proportions even if you give Bodyguard Mode it's absolute best-case scenario of increasing your maximum HP by 4 times, which never happens in reality.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
My only gripe with your post is that max HP is incredibly useful for Masterminds, as long as they understand bodyguard mode.
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It's 1.88% +Max HP, which is 15.10016 health for a Mastermind at level 50.
60.4 HP in an ideal, fantasy world scenario that never happens is... not a good set bonus.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I was under the impression that recharge enhancements in pet summoning powers caused pet summoning powers to recharge faster. Which, admittedly, is only useful when your pets are dying a lot, but still, not useless.
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If you're in a situation as a Mastermind where your pets are dying faster than you can summon them, a few seconds more uptime is not going to help you. A damage, accuracy, or even an endurance reduction for your pet power, however, would be a constant and useful benefit, and at least closer to being appropriately parallel to increasing the recharge speed of another AT's core powers.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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I thought even that was changed (but I can't find patch notes to that effect with a cursory search).
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I was under the impression that recharge enhancements in pet summoning powers caused pet summoning powers to recharge faster. Which, admittedly, is only useful when your pets are dying a lot, but still, not useless.
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I haven't read up on the MM proc but is the proc like the other procs that MMs can use? Like the +def one where you can put it in Hell on Earth and it gives the 5% def to all pets?
I know on my one MM he has both of the +def ones and the +resist ones...*shrugs*
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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Yes, sort of. It's the same type of mechanic, but is AoE Defense only.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I haven't read up on the MM proc but is the proc like the other procs that MMs can use? Like the +def one where you can put it in Hell on Earth and it gives the 5% def to all pets?
I know on my one MM he has both of the +def ones and the +resist ones...*shrugs* |
It's 10% standard, 15% on the Superior version.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Recharge in pet powers increased the recharge of the power itself but does not affect the recharge of the powers of the pets it summons. Supposedly the reasoning behind it was that increasing the recharge in pets affected their AI poorly. It also made Lightning Storm ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
I thought even that was changed (but I can't find patch notes to that effect with a cursory search).
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Are you saying you never have all your henchmen alive?
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Incredibly useful is an overstatement of epic proportions even if you give Bodyguard Mode it's absolute best-case scenario of increasing your maximum HP by 4 times, which never happens in reality.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Absolutely - well aware of that but I had it in my head somewhere that it was changed so that there was NO benefit in Recharge at all. I'd test it but I'm at work right now |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Recharge in pet powers increased the recharge of the power itself but does not affect the recharge of the powers of the pets it summons. Supposedly the reasoning behind it was that increasing the recharge in pets affected their AI poorly. It also made Lightning Storm ridiculous.
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The fact that the Pet Damage sets have zero Recharge (and there's separate Recharge Intensive Pet sets) seems to bear this out.
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welcome to masterminds and set bonuses 101.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
The title pretty much says it all. Why is there only one remotely useful set bonus in the Mastermind ATO set (being +Recharge, which isn't even good for every Mastermind primary/secondary combo)?
Damage set bonuses don't effect pets, which makes that utterly useless, Masterminds have the lowest base HP in the game, so a maxhp bonus is trivial, and resistance bonuses are only remotely valuable when you already have a lot of resistance to add them to, which, obviously, a Mastermind does not - not that their resistance hard caps are high enough for it to matter anyway. Could we get some of these changed to something relevant, like Defense, which at least gives a feasible boost to survivability when stacked, or recovery, for the end. heavy secondaries? |
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I'm saying that Max HP increases are only useful if they can ever prevent you from dying, and that I never die when all of my pets are active and I'm in Bodyguard Mode.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Are you saying you never have all your henchmen alive?
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If one of my Masterminds dies, it's generally in one of two scenarios:
My pets have been wiped out and are continuing to be wiped out faster than I can get them out, during or following which, I die.
Some stupid iTrial mechanic that uses a DoT to bypass the one-shot rule and does infinity billion damage hits me.
In neither of those situations does 15 more health benefit me.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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This is not a valid response or attitude towards an IO set which can only be slotted by Masterminds.|
Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
welcome to masterminds and set bonuses 101.
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There are many set bonuses that are useless to us, yes. Those set bonuses should NOT BE ON OUR ATO SET.
There are plenty of other bonuses these could be replaced with that would be infinitely more appropriate. I suggested several myself already.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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I'd suggest Provoke to help avoid this kind of thing.|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
IMy pets have been wiped out and are continuing to be wiped out faster than I can get them out, during or following which, I die.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Some stupid iTrial mechanic that uses a DoT to bypass the one-shot rule and does infinity billion damage hits me.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
In neither of those situations does 15 more health benefit me.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Ah okay...not bad overall but...yeah...if it was 10% def to all then that'd be great |
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Yes, sort of. It's the same type of mechanic, but is AoE Defense only.
It's 10% standard, 15% on the Superior version. |
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
A extra 15% AoE defense will go nicely on my Demon/Traps MM.
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"It's not useful to me."
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
I'm saying that Max HP increases are only useful if they can ever prevent you from dying, and that I never die when all of my pets are active and I'm in Bodyguard Mode.
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Most of my Mastermind builds have Provoke. It does still have limits.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I'd suggest Provoke to help avoid this kind of thing.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Then I contend that you simply don't understand the benefits of extra hitpoints when coupled with other forms of mitigation. I agree that defense would provide more benefit, but again, only to a point. Max HP is certainly very useful. Don't forget the effect it plays on regeneration as well.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Yes, the Aura is good and I said as much previously in the thread. |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
A extra 15% AoE defense will go nicely on my Demon/Traps MM.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
"It's not useful to me."
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
I also think you're picking on the completely wrong aspect.
Why is there so much recharge in the set when it can only go in the summon powers which will not affect any of the henchmens' powers?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Masterminds, Khelds, and Tankers get the short end of the stick with useless resistance bonuses and most of the procs are lame...I'd probably be less disappointed if the resistance % was larger, maybe 5-10% overall increase type larger.|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Even if the MaxHP bonus stays as is, there are still three indefensibly terrible bonuses on this set, which is inexcusable, especially considering how absurdly good some of the other ATO set bonuses are.
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On a personal note, I feel that damage bonuses are kind of "meh" as a whole...
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I'm not thrilled about that either, and would be delighted to see it change, but I feel the set bonuses are even worse.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I also think you're picking on the completely wrong aspect.
Why is there so much recharge in the set when it can only go in the summon powers which will not affect any of the henchmens' powers? |
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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I won't disagree with you that those sets aren't the best of the bunch either, but at least most tanks and Kheldians can make some kind of use of some stacked resistances, that isn't true of Masterminds.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Masterminds, Khelds, and Tankers get the short end of the stick with useless resistance bonuses and most of the procs are lame...
On a personal note, I feel that damage bonuses are kind of "meh" as a whole... |
Those sets would be more appropriate as a topic of their own threads, though, I think.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Because what other possible powerset combination could really matter, once you've gone Demons/Storm?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Why is there so much recharge in the set when it can only go in the summon powers which will not affect any of the henchmens' powers?
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The title pretty much says it all. Why is there only one remotely useful set bonus in the Mastermind ATO set (being +Recharge, which isn't even good for every Mastermind primary/secondary combo)?
Damage set bonuses don't effect pets, which makes that utterly useless, Masterminds have the lowest base HP in the game, so a maxhp bonus is trivial, and resistance bonuses are only remotely valuable when you already have a lot of resistance to add them to, which, obviously, a Mastermind does not - not that their resistance hard caps are high enough for it to matter anyway.
Could we get some of these changed to something relevant, like Defense, which at least gives a feasible boost to survivability when stacked, or recovery, for the end. heavy secondaries?
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]