Another Dr. Who question
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-01-19 22:11 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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I know what he was going for, but his "technically" was technically incorrect given the specification of "longest-running" in the post he was responding to. |
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
I'm guessing Hyperstrike is adding the years from the final McCoy episode until the McGann movie to the time McCoy spent as the Doctor (after all, McCoy was at the very beginning of the McGann movie); and adding the years from the end of the McGann movie until the first Eccleston episode to the time McGann spent as the Doctor.
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And really, all things considered, episode count is the only decent measurement anyway, what with time being all wibbly-wobbly. Before you know it, there's Peter Davison in the TARDIS, apparently having been the Doctor for 25 years or so. Or else none of these other upstarts have counted since we've already had an appearance of Doctor 12.5 ...
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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No, because "longest running" could mean a number of things. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I know what he was going for, but his "technically" was technically incorrect given the specification of "longest-running" in the post he was responding to.
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Had it be specified "longest running on screen", I probably would have just left it. But that isn't what was asked. Thus I posted what I did with clarification.
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| And really, all things considered, episode count is the only decent measurement anyway |
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It could mean a number of things, but it certainly doesn't mean 'longest time not doing anything', and that's the important bit.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No, because "longest running" could mean a number of things.
Had it be specified "longest running on screen", I probably would have just left it. But that isn't what was asked. Thus I posted what I did with clarification. |
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| For you, possibly. Others might (and would) argue differently. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
To chippeth in, the Docotr Who DVDS released by the BBC officially list the Sylvester McCoy years as being 1987-1989. He's only classed as a gues star in McCanns film.
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And here I thought Kirk vs. Picard and Joel vs. Mike were the nerdiest arguments around. Wow. Doctor Who wins again, I guess.
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According to you. You're forgetting one important thing. You're not the arbiter of meaning for the english language.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It could mean a number of things, but it certainly doesn't mean 'longest time not doing anything', and that's the important bit.
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| They might also argue that the earth is flat. In both cases reason would be against them, but that's rarely stopped anyone from arguing. |
Ah well. My work here is done.
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Cute, but counting anything other than time spent actually playing the role hardly seems relevant. You might as well compare the actors' heights to see who was the Doctor "the longest". |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Both McGann and McCoy were officially "The Doctor" far longer than Tom Baker was. Whether episodes were put out or not.
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And I thought "Who is the 'best' Doctor?" was this programme's most heated debate...|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
And here I thought Kirk vs. Picard and Joel vs. Mike were the nerdiest arguments around. Wow. Doctor Who wins again, I guess.
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So, the role of "The Doctor" is like a conferred title, i.e. considered permanent until a successor steps up?
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
And I thought "Who is the 'best' Doctor?" was this programme's most heated debate...
So, the role of "The Doctor" is like a conferred title, i.e. considered permanent until a successor steps up? |
Throughout a good chunk of the fandom? Yeah.
Plus, canonical or not, the Big Finish audiobooks are considered by many to be continuations of one's role. Both McCoy and McGann made quite a few of these.
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If Big Finish adventures count, then Tom Baker is back in the running thanks to his new recordings.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Plus, canonical or not, the Big Finish audiobooks are considered by many to be continuations of one's role. Both McCoy and McGann made quite a few of these.
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No. Because the count goes from regeneration to regeneration.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
If Big Finish adventures count, then Tom Baker is back in the running thanks to his new recordings.
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This gives a fair representation from a couple of viewpoints.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_the...lay_Doctor_Who
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I'm going to have to side with Hyperstrike on this one. The Doctor is the The Doctor until someone else becomes The Doctor. Thats how it works.
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That presupposes a strict progression of cause to effect. One must take a non-linear non-subjective viewpoint when it comes to such matters. How else would Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee, and Peter Davison be able to appear as the Doctor in later episodes?|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No. Because the count goes from regeneration to regeneration.
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(Things do get a bit complicated with all this wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey ... stuff.)
Yes, things are known to get a little extra wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey around the Doctor. Speaking of which, what are the chances we'll see a "multiple Doctors" special for the upcoming 50th anniversary?
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Crossing my fingers and toes (and when I'm not driving or working, my eyes) that we'll see a couple of 'em in there.
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Originally Posted by Chris_Zuercher
Speaking of which, what are the chances we'll see a "multiple Doctors" special for the upcoming 50th anniversary?
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Matt Smith is all for it (name-checking Tom Baker, David Tennant, Christopher Eccleston, and Paul McGann). Moffat's been a little more secretive, though.
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Originally Posted by Chris_Zuercher
Speaking of which, what are the chances we'll see a "multiple Doctors" special for the upcoming 50th anniversary?
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If nothing else, I would love to see all of the surviving actors for not only the Doctor but his companions, in the same place at the same time.
The thought I have is something like the Doctor Who at the Proms concerts, perhaps divided into stages where you bring out actors from that part of the series (i.e. Sarah Sutton and Janet Fielding sharing the stage with Peter Davison) mixed in with music and stories from the series.
It's a rough idea but, yeah, I could get behind that. Make it possible for me to but tickets and I would strongly think about it.
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Not that likely, unfortunately. At least, not in the form you're probably thinking.|
Originally Posted by Chris_Zuercher
Yes, things are known to get a little extra wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey around the Doctor. Speaking of which, what are the chances we'll see a "multiple Doctors" special for the upcoming 50th anniversary?
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The first three actors have passed away (Hartnel, Troughton, Pertwee), several of the actors are obviously older that it's going to be tricky (Davidson, McCoy, but especially both Bakers who are almost unrecognizable now outside of their voices), one that will only do it without the wig and in a different costume (McGann), and one has stated uncategorically that he will *never* reprise the role (Eccleston). That leaves Tennant and Smith.
Replacing all those actors with reasonable look-alikes would... I dunno, they got away with replacing Hartnel a couple of times when he was ill, and after he had passed away, so I guess replacing the dead actors isn't that bad really. But replacing the living actors just because they don't resemble themselves as of thirty-or-so year ago feels a bit odd.
There might be some weird jiggery-pokery they could pull [See BabelColor's The Ten Doctors: http://www.youtube.com/user/BabelCol.../8/_nCb3y4J850] and with a *serious* budget they might even make it reasonable, but I fear another reprise of 'Dimensions in Time'.
Peter Davison's already been back for the "Time Crash" mini-episode. There his appearance of advanced age was explained as a side effect of the temporal accident that had brought him face-to-face with the Tenth Doctor. I also thought he and Tennant had really good chemistry.
Not sure if Eccleston would be willing, as it seems that he didn't leave on the best of terms. With Davies gone, though, and for one special, maybe he could get talked into it. Seems like Tennant would be on board, as would McGann.
Obviously an "all the doctors" special would be impossible to do without CGI and fans might not take to such fakery. But just having several Doctors together would be well received.
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The use of Tron: Legacy class character alteration effects for the actors would be pretty much required to pull it off. The old docs (from the "old series") are all very obviously much older and something like done with Flynn/Clu in Tron: Legacy woudl be pretty much required to pull it off with anything short of giggle inducing badness and even then a lot of the "age reduction" on Bridges was noticable.
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Originally Posted by Chris_Zuercher
Peter Davison's already been back for the "Time Crash" mini-episode. There his appearance of advanced age was explained as a side effect of the temporal accident that had brought him face-to-face with the Tenth Doctor. I also thought he and Tennant had really good chemistry.
Not sure if Eccleston would be willing, as it seems that he didn't leave on the best of terms. With Davies gone, though, and for one special, maybe he could get talked into it. Seems like Tennant would be on board, as would McGann. Obviously an "all the doctors" special would be impossible to do without CGI and fans might not take to such fakery. But just having several Doctors together would be well received. |
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I haven't seen the new Tron yet, but I have seen the Curious Case of Benjamin Button, where, iirc, they used a ton of CGI to show us the old-looking (young) Brad Pitt as well as the younger-looking (old). The old one we got to see a fair amount - moving around, doing things, etc. The young one? Not so much, I recall he stood around, partially hidden in shadow in a dark room! I don't think our CGI, even with unlimited budgets, can really get us that far yet. |
Originally Posted by Redbone
The use of Tron: Legacy class character alteration effects for the actors would be pretty much required to pull it off. The old docs (from the "old series") are all very obviously much older and something like done with Flynn/Clu in Tron: Legacy would be pretty much required to pull it off with anything short of giggle inducing badness and even then a lot of the "age reduction" on Bridges was noticeable.
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So yeah, I can't see them even attempting that route either.
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No, no... it's apparently better to create arbitrary criteria to govern such matters than to go with the simpler, more effective method of counting the number of episodes. If it opens up the future possibility of a corpse being the longest running Doctor and other illogical shenanigans, so be it. I'm sure more arbitrary criteria can be added as the situation necessitates. |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
That presupposes a strict progression of cause to effect. One must take a non-linear non-subjective viewpoint when it comes to such matters.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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The technology is currently convincing, but JUST barely convincing and there are times where is is a glaring effect. The problem isn't the tech though, the tech is there, the problem is the cost of that tech. In a decade, maybe, they could pull it off cheaply enough for a TV show, but as it stands now, it would cost a season or two's entire budget just for the age effects.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
I haven't seen the new Tron yet, but I have seen the Curious Case of Benjamin Button, where, iirc, they used a ton of CGI to show us the old-looking (young) Brad Pitt as well as the younger-looking (old). The old one we got to see a fair amount - moving around, doing things, etc. The young one? Not so much, I recall he stood around, partially hidden in shadow in a dark room! I don't think our CGI, even with unlimited budgets, can really get us that far yet.
So yeah, I can't see them even attempting that route either. |
Both McGann and McCoy were officially "The Doctor" far longer than Tom Baker was. Whether episodes were put out or not.
And, as I added the caveat about Tom Baker if you're just going by episode count...
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