Another Dr. Who question
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-01-19 22:11 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
The designs from one series to another have changed slightly, including various shades of grary (Mark I, II, and III). The Black Dalek was the Supreme Controller, and like the Emperor Dalek and Gold Dalek, intended to designate a command position. The later 80s versions you mention, like the white and heavy weapons ones, are inventions of Eric Saward, from the time whne the series began to go downhill, not least because they couldn't write a proper Dalek story. For goodness sake, one of the Doctor's later companions defeated a Dalek with a super-powered baseball bat.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
They've had multiple colours for quite some time, as I pointed out previously. There have been leader Daleks in black, a leader Dalek in gold, and Imperial Daleks that were white with gold trim. Not to mention the heavy weapons Dalek, the lighter and darker greys, and the various Emperors. And that's all classic Who. So much for 'utter deindividuation'. They must've had the intent to sell toys since the 60s, when the black Dalek showed up.
|
Repainting the entire Dalek army in a rainbow of Teletubby bright colors makes them superficially more vivid but loses their presence as a massed army. And yes, Dalekmania did sell a lot of toys in the 60s, at the cost of overexposing them and turning them into kitsch. The paradox of the Dalek is that although its "pepperpot" shape is, frankly, silly, they represent implacable hatred in a way that no other science fiction TV villain can, even in adult shows. By revising their design into something more toy-like, the New Who producers risk the balance of the Dalek's appeal.
The essential Dalek stories are The Daleks (1963), The Dalek Invasion of Earth (1964), Genesis of the Daleks (1975), and, in New Who, Dalek (2005). Those serials convey their menace underneath their "zeerust" design. Anyone interested in immersing themselves in classic Doctor Who can start with those.
Other pre-JNT stories, such as Day of the Daleks (1972), Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks (1973), Death to the Daleks (1973), and Destiny of the Daleks (1979), only draw on the capital established by the better ones. After that, villain decay sets in badly, especially with the overuse of Davros. And of course, we've already discussed what New Who's Dalek stories can be like.
It's a shame that The Daleks' Master Plan (1965-66), The Power of the Daleks (1966), and The Evil of the Daleks (1967) are all missing. Not only do we never see Patrick Troughton's Doctor fight his hallmark antagonists, but those stories sound like fairly decent additions to the canon, too.
Quote:
Dude, please, the BBC hasn't been a public interest company for decades, at least in anything but name. It might be officially funded by the licence, but they are still out there make money, especially worldwide where they sure aren't funded by a licence! |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
You are aware that the BBC is a chartered public service broadcasting corporation, and that's not an aesthetic defense. It tends to get trotted out whenever there isn't one, though.
|
They want the money, ideally to make more TV shows but also to make a profit and to think otherwise is naive at best.This is why the likes of Top Gear get away with so much, they know the controversey is one of the things that makes people watch it and sell so well, especially abroad.
If they weren't out to make a profit, all the DVD, books etc based on the channels shows would be sold at cost.
And the same point still stands. Yes, they probably did change the Daleks for better toy sales, I dunno, I don't write it, but what I said earlier still applies. If you don't like the show, don't watch it, vote with your feet, it's the single thing that the BBC will take notice of.
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
Genesis of the Daleks is probably my favourite of the bunch. I wish I had seen the Troughton episodes (I should check into the novelisations). I like the Daleks as a serious hate machine, but I also don't mind seeing that subverted a bit every now and then for a fun adventure. And my favourite Dalek designs are all the variants.
Admittedly, though, the Spitfires in Space episode(s) could've involved just about any aliens and been about the same.
Also: Ace with the Hand-of-Omega-powered bat was hilarious. It's a shame Sly didn't get another season or two.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Talk to me when BBC America officially produces Doctor Who. The Beeb gets almost three-quarters of its funding from the license fee, nearly 80% when government grants are included.|
Originally Posted by Coin
Dude, please, the BBC hasn't been a public interest company for decades, at least in anything but name. It might be officially funded by the licence, but they are still out there make money, especially worldwide where they sure aren't funded by a licence!
|
Quote:
| If you don't like the show, don't watch it, vote with your feet, it's the single thing that the BBC will take notice of. |
Quote:
Haven't you just proven my point then?? They still need to make 25% of their money somehow and merchandising is the main way, especially with a family and kid-oriented show like Doctor Who, they make a change in the show that may or not be for that reason and yet you keep on watching it?|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Talk to me when BBC America officially produces Doctor Who. The Beeb gets almost three-quarters of its funding from the license fee, nearly 80% when government grants are included.
Thanks for the tip, sunshine, but actually, I try not to watch the episodes that look like crap - Victory of the Daleks slipped in, to my regret, since I watched it with less discerning friends - and I buy the ones on DVD that are good. |
Makes no sense to me, but hey, each to their own.
And thanks for the condescending tone, helps me decide what I was leaning towards as the thread went on
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
Quote:
Strangely, I think the BBC funding thing is actually why Top Gear can be the way it is. On a commercial channel, they would risk having sponsors/advertisers pulling out due to controversey. That can't happen on the BBC, so they can pretty much make what they want (within their charter, of course).|
Originally Posted by Coin
This is why the likes of Top Gear get away with so much, they know the controversey is one of the things that makes people watch it and sell so well, especially abroad.
|
As for the Daleks at war thingy, yes, it was silly, juvenile, not particularly good, had a few dodgy(ish) special effects and quite a few plot holes. On the other hand, it was kind of fun. As such, it's pretty much right on par for a lot of Doctor Who.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Quote:
Is your point that the tail wags the dog? "Auntie" has a different mandate and a different institutional culture than Sky or the typical advertiser-driven US network TV. Doctor Who tie-in toys are fine, but when Doctor Who ties in with toys, then it's a problem. For an audience raised on Transformers and similar toy commercials disguised childrens shows, it might not be noticeable, but it's aesthetically indefensible.|
Originally Posted by Coin
Haven't you just proven my point then?? They still need to make 25% of their money somehow and merchandising is the main way, especially with a family and kid-oriented show like Doctor Who, they make a change in the show that may or not be for that reason and yet you keep on watching it?
|
The kindest explanation for the Power Rangers-style design is that since Doctor Who doesn't have the budget to produce a full-blown Dalek army and CGI Daleks don't have the same presence, they wanted a visually distinctive redesign. That only invites the question of what was wrong with the new series's previously updated design for the Daleks.
Quote:
It's somewhere under Real Life Writes the Plot on tvtropes, that they mention the, erm, first wave of NewWho Daleks were built to match Billie Piper's height. I think they then say the new models were adjusted to match Matt Smith.
|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
... That only invites the question of what was wrong with the new series's previously updated design for the Daleks.
|
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Quote:
Fair enough, I suppose. Smith, Gillan, and Darvill are all on the tall side. Still, one of the hallmarks of the classic Daleks was that they were shorter than the rest of the cast, making them deceptively less threatening. (Joe Ahearne, the director of the New Who episode "Dalek", said in some interview or another that he didn't take it seriously as the story's antagonist until it started killing everyone in the script.) Making them taller and bulkier doesn't really contribute to what makes the Daleks menacing.|
Originally Posted by Agonus
It's somewhere under Real Life Writes the Plot on tvtropes, that they mention the, erm, first wave of NewWho Daleks were built to match Billie Piper's height. I think they then say the new models were adjusted to match Matt Smith.
|
On the topic of old school Daleks, here's the trailer for the fan-made restaging of the lost Power of the Daleks.
Quote:
Other than their Doctor, it doesn't look too bad.
|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
On the topic of old school Daleks, here's the trailer for the fan-made restaging of the lost Power of the Daleks.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound