Another Dr. Who question


Agent White

 

Posted

A while back I posted a thread about how I was interested in watching the series again, and thanks to Netflix on my Wii, I did just that. However, I am having a bit of trouble with the end of the David Tennant Dr's in season 4.

On Netflix it jumps from the last episode of season 4 right into Matt Smiths Dr in the first episode of season 5. I went online and saw that (according to a Wiki article) that there were 5 "special episodes" that served as Tennants leaving and the introduction of Matt Smith. My question is what are they and in what order are they? I have the following;

1. Planet of the Dead
2. The Waters Of Mars
3. Dreamland (an animated episode)
4. The End of Time (a "2 part" episode)

Is this all of them? And is that the order they should be watched? I don't want to jump right into season 5 untill I see the end of David Tennant's Dr because I read that he does some neat things in "The End Of Time". So I ask the Whovians (Whoites?) what is the correct route for these. Planet Of The Dead, unfortunately, is not available on Netflix, but I will happily rent it. Thanks for all your help.


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Posted

Ok, turns out all I can get on Netflix are the Waters Of Mars and both parts of The End of Time. Is that enough, or do I need the other 2 to see his "exit"?


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Posted

yeah, those are the important ones.

Planet of the Dead is cool, but it's the most "one-off" of the set. see it, but you don't have to put everything on hold for it.

all you need to know going in to Waters of Mars is that the Doctor was told by someone with psychic affinity (in Planet of the Dead) that his "song is ending" and "He will knock four times." note: that "He" is meant to imply someone that is not the Doctor.

now go watch Waters of Mars! =D one of my absolute favs! =)

*edit* oh, don't worry about dreamland. it's neat, but not at all important. it's an adventure with Martha Jones.


 

Posted

Coolin. Thanks.


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Posted

honestly you don't even need to see Waters of Mars, the important bits are only right at the end and mostly just a slight teaser. Also some of the most hamfisted and awful writing I've even seen in the show.

But definitely see End of Time, that was a fairly fantastic one and the most important to see for the transition/send off.


 

Posted

Don't forget Tennant's final Christmas special, "The Next Doctor", which precedes "Planet of the Dead". I enjoyed it the most of all Tennant's last episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
honestly you don't even need to see Waters of Mars, the important bits are only right at the end and mostly just a slight teaser. Also some of the most hamfisted and awful writing I've even seen in the show.
Sadly, the ending squandered both the entire episode's suspenseful buildup and Russell Davies's criticisms of the Doctor's heroic impulse to interfere.

Quote:
But definitely see End of Time, that was a fairly fantastic one and the most important to see for the transition/send off.
The two-parter is pretty much mandatory viewing, both as Tennant's swan song and the wrap-up of Davies's reboot of the series (some, however, have criticized its Total Bollocks Overdrive).


 

Posted

Is there a good synopsis of all the Dr's and their stories (not the minutia of helping this alien or that, but as their story relates to the whole of the Dr's) that I could read to sort of get cought up to the beginning of the "new" series? Like I said, I have finished 1-4 of the "new" seasons, but I read that there were things happening way back in the Tom Baker years (the ones I remember from my youth) and further back than that even that had an affect on the current incarnation, and logicly all of them. So some sort of "heres what you need to know" bit just to get me to where I am now.

For instance, because I can not actually remember specific episodes I watched of Tom Baker, but by watching the last regular episode of David Tennant, I learn that it was the 4th Dr. and Sara Jane who met the Dalek Creator (I assume for the first time). So I would like to get a bit more "cought up" to the now series'. Does anybody know if such a synopsis exsists? I imagine it would be pretty long, but for me, well worth it.

Thanks all.

I also know (from the Wiki) that a lot of the episodes were destroyed (most of the first and second Dr's), but surely the stories of the shows were kept somewhere. I mean, I hope.

Oh and True Gentleman, I loved "The Next Dr." very much. Thought the writing was excellent. Whilst it was a hair predictable, it was still very enjoyable.


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Posted

Start here:

http://guide.doctorwhonews.net/index.php

That will give you summaries of all the seasons and is a good jumping point.

There's a 16 year gap between the end of the old run and Davie's relaunch, and in that time period you had the Paul McGann movie as well as 200 + Original novels written for the 7th and 8th Doctor that the BBC considers pretty much Cannon- these can be hunted down here and there.

Also, most of the missing episodes are from Pat Troughton's run (2nd doctor, 1966-69). Out of 21 stories, only 7 remain intact, 6 of those from his last season. But ALL the stories exist in audio form completely and all have been released on CD and MP3 with linking narration from surviving actors. Also, EVERY televised story was novelized by Target Publishing in the 80s.. you can usually track down PDFs of these- the BBC have started mmaking these into Audo MP3s.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
honestly you don't even need to see Waters of Mars, the important bits are only right at the end and mostly just a slight teaser. Also some of the most hamfisted and awful writing I've even seen in the show.

But definitely see End of Time, that was a fairly fantastic one and the most important to see for the transition/send off.
I'm really confused by how you call The Waters of Mars "hamfisted and awful" while you can call The End of Time "fairly fantastic" because I see it as the exact opposite.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
I'm really confused by how you call The Waters of Mars "hamfisted and awful" while you can call The End of Time "fairly fantastic" because I see it as the exact opposite.
I can't help that you have no taste

And Time Lord Victorious and the suicide were just god awful stupidity. All he had to do was go ANYWHERE BUT EARTH and there would have been no conflict, no need for all the ham and drama at the end. Also the gaping -gaping- plothole of someone finding a body with no explanation and that somehow keeps the timeline intact. Yeah, no. Bloody awful.


And ya, End of Time had huge flaws, in fact I really disliked Part 1 until I saw Part 2 and for whatever reason it clicked better for me with all the references and the heroic final moments and the rather heart string tugging (though overly long) goodbye scene. But a lot of the characters were hammy or just outright silly, the actual climax was pretty decently epic and well acted, if only failed because it resorted back to Davies failsafe 'magic button' ploy. It's not perfect but I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than the Waters of Mars, which I can't even sit through now.

I will say 10's final moments probably make me dislike Davies more than anything though. I've never seen an author so thoroughly torture and punish a character.


 

Posted

See, "huge flaws" is much different from "fairly fantastic".


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Posted

It should go:

"The Next Doctor"
"Planet of the Dead"
"Waters of Mars"
"End of Time" Part 1 and 2

You can pretty much skip "Dreamland" and it was God awful CGI.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki120 View Post
You can pretty much skip "Dreamland" and it was God awful CGI.
The best way to experience "Dreamland" is to leave it on in the background, and don't look at the TV screen. Just pretend it's a radio drama of Dr. Who.

Worked pretty good for me. Made good background stuff as I puttered about on the computer one day.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
I will say 10's final moments probably make me dislike Davies more than anything though. I've never seen an author so thoroughly torture and punish a character.
*cough* Joss Whedon *cough*

Those final two episodes made me glad Davies was leaving (which was a difficult thing as I admire him for having brought back the show and making it work), they were terrible, a few good Wilf moments aside.


 

Posted

I am having a HECK of a time getting into the new (for me) Smith seasons. Amy reminds me of somebody I know (she is a DEAD ringer for her), and his Dr. just seems off to me. I also don't like that he looks so young. I don't know how old he is, but he just looks young. Did it start slow for anybody else? And if it did, did it get better?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Blanc View Post
I am having a HECK of a time getting into the new (for me) Smith seasons. Amy reminds me of somebody I know (she is a DEAD ringer for her), and his Dr. just seems off to me. I also don't like that he looks so young. I don't know how old he is, but he just looks young. Did it start slow for anybody else? And if it did, did it get better?
Amy seems like an amalgamation of Rose, Martha and Donna. She has the youth of Rose, the crush of Martha and the brashness of Donna.

Matt's Doctor feels a lot more alien than Tennant's, but Tennant was maybe a little too human anyway. Matt's portrayal also seems to be of a playful old man trapped in the body of a young man. He's not my favorite Doctor, but I think he's done a fairly good job.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Blanc View Post
I am having a HECK of a time getting into the new (for me) Smith seasons. Amy reminds me of somebody I know (she is a DEAD ringer for her), and his Dr. just seems off to me. I also don't like that he looks so young. I don't know how old he is, but he just looks young. Did it start slow for anybody else? And if it did, did it get better?
I have loved the Smith run from the get go, especially the character of Amy Pond. Smith took a bit of an adjustment coming off Tennant, but I think it comes around rather quickly as I think the Doctor needed a break from all the guilt and angst. The Smith Doctor seems to really relish the adventure and is unburdoned by his past. I love the dynamic between the Doctor and Amy and then Amy and Rory and then especially with River.

Give this run more time, I think you'll end up loving it!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Blanc View Post
I also don't like that he looks so young. I don't know how old he is, but he just looks young. Did it start slow for anybody else? And if it did, did it get better?
He may look young, but with his jutting jaw, high forehead, and gangly limbs, he looks sufficiently odd to play a human-like alien. Moffat described his performance as a young person put together by old people.

Smith makes a strong first impression, but he does take a little longer to establish his characterization of the Doctor. He's fully settled in to the role by "Amy's Choice", and by the season finale of "The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang", he's become one of my favorite Doctors. His Series Six gives Troughton, Baker (Tom, obviously), and Tennant some serious competition.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Blanc View Post
I am having a HECK of a time getting into the new (for me) Smith seasons. Amy reminds me of somebody I know (she is a DEAD ringer for her), and his Dr. just seems off to me. I also don't like that he looks so young. I don't know how old he is, but he just looks young. Did it start slow for anybody else? And if it did, did it get better?
get out while you can. season1 with CE brought back The Doctor with a vegeance, DT did a great job keeping it going, and then along comes our new writer and he has quickly killed off the franchise. Ratings are way down for a reason since Moffet got control.

Worse he took the best part of season 3, the Blink episode, which he had done, and I loved. And bent over those weeping angels and made them weep all the harder.

And pretty much the only thing from 1-4 he ever allowed to matter was River who was a interesting character in season 4s 2 parter in the library, I rather loved her sacrifice and the docs saving of her at the very end. But Moffet has turned her into a disgusting mary sue character that practically has become the new example one points to when explaining that term.

I was so into DW that I was digging up and watching the original serials from episode 1 on but with what 5+ has done to my enjoyment of the character i have lost the interest in finishing the project of educating myself on classic who.

Those who like the 5+ ask yourselves do you really like anything except amy and rory who are great companion characters, and the doc light episodes have been tolerable. But overall even they have been largely under used and even contaminated with Rivers lameness.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos View Post
Those who like the 5+ ask yourselves do you really like anything except amy and rory who are great companion characters, and the doc light episodes have been tolerable. But overall even they have been largely under used and even contaminated with Rivers lameness.
I do love Amy and Rory.

I do love the Smith Doctor. Not all emo-whiny about the Time War. Proud to be himself again. Happy to be on adventures and relishing the fact that there are entire races of aliens rightfully terrified of him. And fezzes are cool.

And I do truely and deeply love River Song and her story with the Doctor. Unapologetically I might add. Mary Sue? pfffft. Just badass if you ask me.

Sorry but your characterization of series 5+ is wrong.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos View Post
And pretty much the only thing from 1-4 he ever allowed to matter was River who was a interesting character in season 4s 2 parter in the library, I rather loved her sacrifice and the docs saving of her at the very end. But Moffet has turned her into a disgusting mary sue character that practically has become the new example one points to when explaining that term.
I would have preferred River Song to have been left alone to preserve her mystery, but at this point, her character has been acceptably fleshed out. The real problem is that Alex Kingston is growing noticeably older while River is supposed to be younger than when she was introduced. As for the Mary Sue charge, Russell Davies already went down this path with his Marty Stu character, Captain "Shiny Teeth" Jack Harkness.

By the way, his name is Moffat. (Georgia Moffett is the actress who played the titular Doctor's Daughter and is now married to David Tennant.)


 

Posted

I think Smith's Doctor tries to bury all the guilt and angst under his over the top zaniness. Let's not forget the Dreammaster (or whatever he was called) had a lot of selfloathing.

And I never considered Amy to have a crush on the Doctor. She's the kind of woman who can spot guys who get uncomfortable around women who aggressively flirt with him. Plus from the Doctor's perspective she was just a 7 year old and a woman scheduled to get married the next day. Plus he had all that "Who was River Song to him" knowledge pestering him as well.

I think the current Who under Moffet is a lot more funny then RDF's. Funny isn't bad. I appreciate all the humorous asides from Rory and Amy as well as The Doctor's over the top wackiness to distract from the impending doom he is trying to avoid. And I really enjoy this Doctor when he is around children. Very "Cat in the Hat".


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
IBy the way, his name is Moffat. (Georgia Moffett is the actress who played the titular Doctor's Daughter and is now married to David Tennant.)
He's not related to her dad Peter Moffett (Davison) either. Which is kinda confusing as it means Georgia really is the Doctor's daughter in RL and in the show and she's married to her show father... Which means the Doctor is kind of his own father in law...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos View Post
get out while you can. season1 with CE brought back The Doctor with a vegeance, DT did a great job keeping it going, and then along comes our new writer and he has quickly killed off the franchise. Ratings are way down for a reason since Moffet got control.
Ratings are down in England but up in America, last I heard; in my eyes that balances out; the BBC views the show as an international product, not just something made for the locals. (I'll agree with you about The Weeping angels follow-up being disappointing).

Personally I'm loving Smith in the role and also see him as giving Baker a run for the money. Tennant did too for me, but then you have to factor in some really bad episodes like his final two-parter. I find the show now has episodes that are only forgettable instead of awful. It also has something Tennant's era seemed to lack: no matter how dull you may find an episode's big picture, the moment to moment dialogue crackles just about every time someone opens their mouth, which can gloss over a number of sins in my book.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
I think the current Who under Moffet is a lot more funny then RDF's. Funny isn't bad. I appreciate all the humorous asides from Rory and Amy as well as The Doctor's over the top wackiness to distract from the impending doom he is trying to avoid. And I really enjoy this Doctor when he is around children. Very "Cat in the Hat".
Moffat has been quite clear that he regards Doctor Who as a family show, so his series has been even more kid-friendly than RTD's. It's a far cry from Tom Baker's "gothic horror" era under producer Philip Hinchcliffe.