What of Relcuse?
Recluse was never immortal (Outside of the aging aspect) because in the villain story arcs you go into the future and actually kill him to stop Project Destiny. This is even before Incarnate existed so you exceeded his power greatly then...
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Statesman was immortal and nearly indestructible but his kryptonite as it were was the same power that destroyed Imperious and Romulus as we see in SSA #5. So generally speaking Statesman was 99.9% indestructible, it's just that Darrin was ready and thus was that 0.1% chance to kill Statesman.
Superman: kryptonite is his main weakness but also so is magic and if cut him off from the yellow sunlight he will power down
They seem to have a Professor X/Magneto relationship with each other (movie canon) and I kind of picture the reaction being something similar to when Jean disintegrated Charles.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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This is one helluva good observation. With everything written on or about Recluse, doing something exactly or near enough what you suggest, would be completely within his established character. Recluse is not some chaotic evil villain that enjoys wanton destruction. He does things with a purpose that will benefit him and Arachnos.
What I would believe and think it would add more depth to what you suggest is he does help in locating and aid in destroying Wade. However, while he is seeking vengeance for a fallen bitter foe he respected and deep down a friend no matter where they ended up, he would have some secret agenda that could put him in a position to supplant Statesmans former position and/or gain more respect by the people and heroes alike of Paragon City. Recluse does not do things without some series thought behind it in seeking some plausible outcome to improve his position or power. Yeah, I would like to see something along the lines you have suggested. I think it would bust this game wide-open turning into something dynamic with endless possibilities. |
As I said, Recluse has the look, feel and style of a decent villain, but not the street cred. Turning him into a proper hero would be a waste, in a lot of ways, but having him get dangerously close to becoming a hero, but then succumbing back to his lust for power, thus falling over backwards into villainy would make for a very cool villain reaffirmation arc.
You know what's even better, though? This could be Recluse's big moment. Say he took off and left Arachnos headless, so Daos took over. Well, Daos is old and weak. As much authority as he has, he's still just one old guy trying to manage four immensely powerful, completely unscrupulous individuals who owe him nothing at all, and would have his head on a pike at the first possible opportunity. This is the perfect opportunity to show how Arachnos would descend into utter chaos without Recluse, almost break apart to infighting, lose control of its land and teeter on the brink of collapse.
Then Recluse shows up, armed with more power and bringing back the authority which kept Arachnos together. The moment he shows up, the Patrons recoil and retreat into their strongholds. His mere presence inspires respect among the soldiers present, who salute him as their one true leader. Arbiter Daos, realising his weakness, vacates the leadership position, and Recluse is Lord once again. He ends any real rebellions swiftly and with great brutality, then gathers the Patrons in the same room and hurts them for their betrayal. With Recluse back in command, and armed with new-found motivation and purpose, Arachnos once again becomes major player on the world scene.
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Obviously, you can sell this any number of ways, but a trip like this could put Recluse over REALLY strongly and put his name back on the map. And honestly, after acting like a small fish bully all these years, he needs it. A bit more humanity, a bit more authority and we have an awesome villain on our hands.
Honestly, though, having a former leader return and everyone immediately going "Oh, ****!" and backing down is one of the best ways to put a villain over
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Immortal means you don't die from old age, it does not always mean you are 100% indestructible. Vampires tend to go up in smoke from sun exposure (not sparkle), or fire, or decapitation or a stake in the heart. Werewolves are also immortal yet cuts from silver weapons can kill them and so can silver bullets in the heart (or other vital organs).
Statesman was immortal and nearly indestructible but his kryptonite as it were was the same power that destroyed Imperious and Romulus as we see in SSA #5. So generally speaking Statesman was 99.9% indestructible, it's just that Darrin was ready and thus was that 0.1% chance to kill Statesman. |
Anyways...I believe that Recluse should go after Darrin. Not because he wants to avenge Marcus' death...but because in Recluse's eyes...him and Marcus were the most powerful...and if someone was capable of killing Marcus...they would also be capable of killing him.
Statesman was not and Recluse is not immortal. Read "The Web of Arachnos" for their backstory.
Anyways...I believe that Recluse should go after Darrin. Not because he wants to avenge Marcus' death...but because in Recluse's eyes...him and Marcus were the most powerful...and if someone was capable of killing Marcus...they would also be capable of killing him. |
Obviously, you can sell this any number of ways, but a trip like this could put Recluse over REALLY strongly and put his name back on the map. And honestly, after acting like a small fish bully all these years, he needs it. A bit more humanity, a bit more authority and we have an awesome villain on our hands.
Honestly, though, having a former leader return and everyone immediately going "Oh, ****!" and backing down is one of the best ways to put a villain over ![]() |
Most importantly, allowing the players to influence outcomes by decisions or actions could really make the SSA's more of an impact on the game for those players. As you see after successfully completing Matthew Habashy and Aron Thiery's storylines.
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Recluse has reasons to want Wade dead that have nothing to do with him killing Statesman. He also killed Miss Liberty who was Recluse's neice and closest living relative. And he certainly doesn't want Wade to actually succeed in his end goal. In fact, none of the worlds big human/formerly human villians would want Wade to succeed as it would really screw up their own plans.
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@Inquisitor
Where are people seeing this relationship? Did Magneto ever send the Brotherhood out to specifically attack Xavier? Recluse isn't rallying for Supers' rights in a world that fears them, he is actively trying to bring the world under his iron-fisted rule. He takes people and shoves them into those Tarantulas shells, turns them into Tarantula Mistresses, Arachnoids, forces them though training that forces them to psychically brainwash themselves into a hive mind. At least Magneto had the benefit of Humanity constantly proving his fears of them right.
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What does any of this have to do with their personal relationship? In both instances; it seems to be a case of friends turned enemies (or even ,*ugh*, 'frenemies'. And Statesman's recollection of Recluse seems to be on par with how Xavier would view Magneto if put into the same shoes.
Along those lines, Recluse would more than likely harbor some semblance of respect from his one-time friend and greatest adversary... but would ultimately continue forward on whatever path he has left to travel
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Recluse has reasons to want Wade dead that have nothing to do with him killing Statesman. He also killed Miss Liberty who was Recluse's neice and closest living relative. And he certainly doesn't want Wade to actually succeed in his end goal. In fact, none of the worlds big human/formerly human villians would want Wade to succeed as it would really screw up their own plans.
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total kick to the gut
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
My take on Recluse's whole shtick (pardon the word) was that he believed in survival of the fittest.
Someone's just taken down Statesman, the closest thing he had to the other 'Alpha Male'. He's either taking that as an outright challenge or a threat. His possible borderline turn to a hero would be a great story (I did note we are getting both Statesman and Recluse helms at the end of the loyalty period....) and put the big man back on the front page. Someone without the moral restrictions of Statesman but just as powerful?
I suggest Emperor Cole step aside because the ruler of Tartarus is back.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Despite their differences, one would think that Recluse would be a bit furious at Darrin for killing Statesman, if for no other reason then Recluse was saving that pleasure for himself.
But, Statesman and Recluse are truly immortal/eternally young (ok States isn't anymore), these two were fated to outlive the entire human race if it came down to that, yet in the end they'd still have each other.....imagine Earth being a desolate wasteland and only Recluse and States were left alive simply because of their immortality? Quite possibly that could be considered a fate worse then death. All their hatred and attempts to destroy each other, and what is left? A desolate planet, the human race gone..... |
Superman: kryptonite is his main weakness but also so is magic and if cut him off from the yellow sunlight he will power down
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For instance, imagine a bullet made of kryptonite and an enchanted bullet. Place the kryptonite bullet next to Superman and it will weaken and eventually kill him. Place the magic bullet next to Superman and it will have no more effect on him than placing a normal bullet next to a normal man. Shoot Superman with the magic bullet, however, and it will have the same effect as shooting a normal bullet from the same gun at a normal man of Superman's size and physique.
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
I see some gloating, talking about killing Darrin Wade as Wade's 'reward' for destroying Statesman for them since they don't want him getting cocky.
And then ugly crying in the shower.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
I'm thinking whatever happens, Recluse dies. The masks were released as tributes to States and Recluse. It may likely be at the hands of Wade, or Wade's benefactor (with Reclusing offing Wade). with the benefactor being offed by the players. This opens up an vaccum of power, both red and blue side, which would be a good thing cause we are now supposed to have these uber heroes, who are still flunky level to the Phalanx and upper level Arachnos? So the absence of the uber hero/villain would make for a more realistic acheivement of at least a villains ultimate aim, the whole enchilada. Can they possibly make all of Arachnos non hostile towards you? or would they continue to be hostile towarrds you as they would be attemping to usurp your power? its an intriguing possibility when in fact we are altering the universe now, according to the way missions are geared around team leader's view point. (experience the universe created by JimBob)
furthermore, this opens up a possibility for some other SSA ideas- blueside you have to reform a phalanx like team, or putdown invasions by each of Recluse's seconds in command, or redside consolidate arachnos powers (take on GW, Mako, Black Scorpion and Scirocco sequentially as they make their individual gambits to seize power) and implement a level 50 praet zone where you would choose to either reform the Empire in your Image or liberate the peoples.
In regards to SSA, I expect Recluse to go after Wade. Manipulating heroes into helping him whenever possible, perhaps even a "teamup" gesture. And a betrayal when the cost/benefit analysis calls for it.
But not to kill Wade, to use him. To find out exactly how one steals incarnate powers and what the consequences are. This could advance project: FURY by decades. And if it takes a few vivisections.. that just makes it fun.
In a more general sense, I expect Lord Recluse to concentrate on "building" the future he has planned for primal earth, now that the one he considered his greatest obstacle is gone. He does have an ideal after all. A world where one is only limited by their power and willingness to use it. A world consisting of mini-kingdoms and wastelands ruled by superpowered persons with Arachnos maintaining a nominal peace. A world that will force its inhabitants to evolve or be destroyed by those who do. A world no one sane would want to invade. A world destroying or conquering every other it encounters, just because they can. Glorious.
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
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I never saw the States/ Recluse relationship as similar to Professor X/ Magneto. I always saw it more like the Doctor and the Master.
They were friends once, but the Master's lust for power and insanity drove them apart. They both still deeply respect each other (as the third Doctor put it 'Best Enemies") but they just cannot reconcile their differing philosphies. Any yet, they have saved each others lives several times. Showing that there's still something there.
Forget romantic subtext. This is deeper.
States and Recluse have a similar dynamic. They were once friends until the Well changed them. Marcus Cole believed in using that power to save the world. Stefan Richter, perhaps driven a little mad by the well (or by his own failings) believed in using that power to rule the world (since somebody had to do it.)
I would think that Recluse would take his time and go after Darren Wade, not because he wants all of the power for himself, but because he simply doesn't think Wade can be trusted with it. Recluse has spent years fighting the Well and has gotten pretty good at it. He feels he's the only one left who can actually keep it in check.
Ah, its all a bit babbling. But You see where I'm going with that
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
Recluse still has to deal with the Praetorian Invasion and the Coming Storm.
Wade may also get greedy; if this worked on Synapse, then Statesman... who is to say that it won't work on Recluse; especially now that he's an Incarnate...
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Wade may also get greedy; if this worked on Synapse, then Statesman... who is to say that it won't work on Recluse; especially now that he's an Incarnate...
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If we had had Recluse turn face before and spend some time helping the heroes, that might be a pretty creative coup to do a turn back to heel AND strike a major victory to put him back on the map.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm thinking whatever happens, Recluse dies. The masks were released as tributes to States and Recluse. It may likely be at the hands of Wade, or Wade's benefactor (with Reclusing offing Wade). with the benefactor being offed by the players. This opens up an vaccum of power, both red and blue side, which would be a good thing cause we are now supposed to have these uber heroes, who are still flunky level to the Phalanx and upper level Arachnos? So the absence of the uber hero/villain would make for a more realistic acheivement of at least a villains ultimate aim, the whole enchilada. Can they possibly make all of Arachnos non hostile towards you? or would they continue to be hostile towarrds you as they would be attemping to usurp your power? its an intriguing possibility when in fact we are altering the universe now, according to the way missions are geared around team leader's view point. (experience the universe created by JimBob)
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I don't think that they'd leave such a major death like that as a kind of afterthought to the arc about Statesman dying - especially as Recluse is ina way a more significant character when it comes to the way the game is set up - the whole red side power struture and a lot of the meta-story for Villains is based around him, unlike Statesman's more symbolic presence blue side.
The death of Reclsue would need an SSA all of its own to be able to cover all the shockwaves that that it'd cause inside and outside Arachnos.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I'm thinking whatever happens, Recluse dies. The masks were released as tributes to States and Recluse. It may likely be at the hands of Wade, or Wade's benefactor (with Reclusing offing Wade). with the benefactor being offed by the players. This opens up an vaccum of power, both red and blue side, which would be a good thing cause we are now supposed to have these uber heroes, who are still flunky level to the Phalanx and upper level Arachnos? So the absence of the uber hero/villain would make for a more realistic acheivement of at least a villains ultimate aim, the whole enchilada. Can they possibly make all of Arachnos non hostile towards you? or would they continue to be hostile towarrds you as they would be attemping to usurp your power? its an intriguing possibility when in fact we are altering the universe now, according to the way missions are geared around team leader's view point. (experience the universe created by JimBob)
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I'm personally a fan of the idea of a power vacuum in Arachnos, either resulting from Recluses' death or from Recluse stepping down to re-evaluate his life, or go after Wade or what have you.
One of the main issues I've always had with the Villain canon was that you never really feel like a true Villain. You are kind of stuck in this loop of being a lackey to the top level villains, or at the very least a lackey to Lord Recluse. Yeah, they did try and create the image of you being equal to him with the patron arcs and the LRSF, but that's where it pretty much stopped. Removing Recluse from power would allow some interesting opportunities for Villains to physically take control of Arachnos or at least try, and would give players more direct control over the way their personal Villain story pans out. The "theme" of Arachnos has always been survival of the fittest and yada yada, but you have never been really given the opportunity to prove that you are the fittest.
From a lore standpoint, I think not killing LR and keeping him in power but still having him go after Wade would be more immediately interesting, but opening up Arachnos with a power vacuum as a result of LR's fall from power would open up far more potential possibilities for your PERSONAL story to be interesting. In an MMO, I think that your characters own story should be more important then the iconic NPCs story and the lore surrounding them.
Just my 2cents I guess.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
I would like to see Recluse just shrug and be like, '' Well, doodle. Statesman is dead? Guess I'll go kill Wade, exact revenge for some odd feeling I'm having inside. Remove myself from the top and go retire somewhere. Hawaii is nice. ''
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Then every now and again we'll hear about a postcard he sends with stuff like,
'' Man.. why didn't I do this before? ''
'' How's Arachnos? LOL. Don't care! ''
'' Wish you wer--.. NOT. ''
'' Still fighting? That's cool. I'll be here under the shade drinking pina coladas'. ''
'' Saw a seagull flying over the ocean today, so beautiful how it soared over the water, skimming it for fish in the morning's light. As it landed a shark jumped up and nom'd it. Thought of you Sharkboy. Good luck with whatever it is you're doing. ''
'' Hurricane rolled through, reminded me of how you yelled at me Ghost Widow. ....Think I'll stick to hurricanes, they're safer. ''
'' Got fish? No? I do.
'' I'd send you an invite to stay for a couple of weeks but law here is no exotic bugs are allowed. ''
'' Lol. Random traveler was selling scorpions-in-a-lollipop as a gag. Loved it. Bought you three. ''
'' Found a nifty carpet at the traders villa, sent it to you express.''
'' They make the best sushi here. Ate some. Was good. ''
I'd love to see that.