I still think treating Shiver like Neurotoxic Breath is the best solution. It involves little work as well.
Just Add in NB, give it slightly more Ice like graphics, tweak the values and up the Special! Boom! Done!
I gave up on my ice control dom and switched to an earth/earth which I like much better
I gave up on ice control because its 2 key powers failed too much
ice slick - at least half the teams someone would drop AoE immobilize that prevented knockback and the slick was useless.
AA - as a controller this was fine. I could stand in the middle of the enemies and use my secondaries at range. As a dominator I found that I needed to move into melee to attack, and I could not do that and stay in the middle to cover all of the foes with AA. I found myself just moving to cover the foes with AA and not doing much else. A range focused secondary might not have that issue.
Historically the Devs dont like to change powers to much from the original unless the power is so borked up there just doesnt seem to be any other choice. I have tried to keep that in mind for these suggestions.
Chiliban / Frostbite: Remove the anti-knockdown aspect this power creates so when you cast it on top of Ice Slick, they cant run off the slick and keep falling.
Flash Freeze: This one is tricky. It is supposed to be Ices answer to Flash fire or Stalagmites; its just that the sleep part doesnt work right with the damage.
So working with what we have in the power:
We can remove the damage and no one will take the power.
Leave it alone and no one will take the power.
We increase the damage so it could be worth taking but then the Fire Doms will cry cause they are the ones who are supposed to do all the damage =).
or
Make the power work like Static Field.
Shiver: If I could have a Christmas Present it would be making Shiver work like a watered down version of Heat Loss.
@mr-blaze
-The Corporation-
Justice
If you drop the damage (and reduce recharge) from Flash Freeze it becomes the same as Spore Burst, which isn't popular by any means but is a useable power. I've used Spore Burst it on the STF and LRSF to help hold off the AVs on teams that couldn't tackle them all together. Flash Freeze can't dream of doing that because of the damage and bad recharge. It's even slow to help ward of an ambush, once again due to the delay for the damage.
For it to be considered for a damage power, you'd have to buff its damage waaaaay higher. It's doing approximately 1/6 of the immobilize's damage with 10 times the recharge. Even Terrify, which matches the base damage of an immobilize, does so at about 6 times the recharge, making it a lackluster damage power.
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This is what i say.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blaze
Flash Freeze: ...
Make the power work like Static Field. |
Please buff Ice Control.
I think another interesting idea would be a sleep that ticks more magnitude after a set amount of time, perhaps an additional 2 magnitude after 4-8 seconds with a chance for another 2 magnitude 4-8 seconds later. It would be able to resleep minions with some consistency and occasionally resleep lieutenants and bosses.
Despite all the good ideas being tossed out in this thread, I'm not too hopeful anything useful will come or be done given the situation with the Gravity Control tweaks.
If the devs did decide to do something, they'd probably make Shiver's range longer and the damage done by flash freeze higher to 'fix' them.
Please buff Ice Control.
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I have to agree...the changes to Gravity are just pathetic at best.
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Despite all the good ideas being tossed out in this thread, I'm not too hopeful anything useful will come or be done given the situation with the Gravity Control tweaks.
If the devs did decide to do something, they'd probably make Shiver's range longer and the damage done by flash freeze higher to 'fix' them. |
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I dunno if I'd go quite *that* far - at least wormhole is halfway decent now, when you finally get it. But yeah, the rest of the changes don't do much, especially for doms.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I have to agree...the changes to Gravity are just pathetic at best.
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@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Sorry I always look at things from a Dom's point of View. Ok, I can give you that the change to wormhole is awesome but I still don't see a reason to keep all that crazy Kb baked into that power. PVP yes PVE no. In my mind PVE wins.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
I dunno if I'd go quite *that* far - at least wormhole is halfway decent now, when you finally get it. But yeah, the rest of the changes don't do much, especially for doms.
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I PMed A. Hawk about why Dominator's Chilling Embrace has no -damage component and he said he doesn't know why Castle set it up that way (he may have his reasons). He said he'll look into it in the future. I'll remind him later... hehe
I said if Dominator's CE has no -damage, then it shouldn't cost the same endurance.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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to me the gravity control changes are more geared to controllers rather than doms
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
I dunno if I'd go quite *that* far - at least wormhole is halfway decent now, when you finally get it. But yeah, the rest of the changes don't do much, especially for doms.
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It has greater improvement for Controller than Dominator but the changes are extremely nice. They've done more upgrade than I was hoping for! (I really don't care how DS is at this point. I just won't take it and it won't affect how I view Gravity because I've been playing Gravity without DS for a long time!)|
Originally Posted by Tocharon
to me the gravity control changes are more geared to controllers rather than doms
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Controller's Gravity was really bad. Dominator has assault secondary so he can bypass the damage from Lift and Propel. Controller does use Lift and Propel for damage but they were way underperforming.
I know the aggro-less and 20' radius in Wormhole is a HUGE buff for Dominator. Dominator with domination can teleport all bosses (Controller can't?). I thought we either get bigger radius or aggro-less but not both!
They've also changed Propel's Splash effect from knock back to knock down to make it more appealing for Dominator to use. It gives one extra soft control if you are not using for damage.
Gravity control buff is great for both ATs really. They've also buffed Singularity a lot.
To be honest, the only thing I really wanted them to buff for Dominator is making Wormhole radius larger. Everything else is just GRAVY. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
how about adding a sleep to shiver?
it may not last long in a normal fight, but a cone sleep is pretty handy for soloing and it would make shiver distinct from AA
I think they have said in the past that removing slotting options from a power is a no-go, so completely removing the damage in Flash Freeze seems very unlikely. Other options would be to make it more useful in other ways or greatly pump up the damage.
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Yeah they've said a lot of things and the done the complete opposite. So if that's their justification for keeping the power a piece of garbage then it's a lie.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I think they have said in the past that removing slotting options from a power is a no-go, so completely removing the damage in Flash Freeze seems very unlikely. Other options would be to make it more useful in other ways or greatly pump up the damage.
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Please buff Ice Control.
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Wow you're easy to please :P. I had way more issues with the set but the Devs pretty much addressed them except from switching DS with WH...but hopefully the new changes actually make DS WORTH taking *crosses fingers*.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
It has greater improvement for Controller than Dominator but the changes are extremely nice. They've done more upgrade than I was hoping for! (I really don't care how DS is at this point. I just won't take it and it won't affect how I view Gravity because I've been playing Gravity without DS for a long time!)
Controller's Gravity was really bad. Dominator has assault secondary so he can bypass the damage from Lift and Propel. Controller does use Lift and Propel for damage but they were way underperforming. I know the aggro-less and 20' radius in Wormhole is a HUGE buff for Dominator. Dominator with domination can teleport all bosses (Controller can't?). I thought we either get bigger radius or aggro-less but not both! They've also changed Propel's Splash effect from knock back to knock down to make it more appealing for Dominator to use. It gives one extra soft control if you are not using for damage. Gravity control buff is great for both ATs really. They've also buffed Singularity a lot. To be honest, the only thing I really wanted them to buff for Dominator is making Wormhole radius larger. Everything else is just GRAVY. :P |
New Changes to singy? So Arbiter Hawk went ahead and decided to change Singularity's attacks to make them more in line with the current Gravity version?
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
how about adding a sleep to shiver?
it may not last long in a normal fight, but a cone sleep is pretty handy for soloing and it would make shiver distinct from AA |
Why would it be horrible to have shiver also have a sleep component (in addition to the -slow and -recharge)? I mean, it wouldnt help on teams, and I like other ideas for Shiver more than this one, but its not horrible.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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It would be bad on doms. Your damage Aura would wake them up in a second. |
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Why would it be horrible to have shiver also have a sleep component (in addition to the -slow and -recharge)? I mean, it wouldnt help on teams, and I like other ideas for Shiver more than this one, but its not horrible.
Lewis |
Have you ever tried the Static Field/Rain of Fire Combo? If you use rain of Fire before the mob is drained of end the extra tics of RoF will wake them up and they will kill you before you knew what hit you. Giving Shiver only -Recharge, Sleep and Slow would not be enough for Dominators.
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I am a weirdo in a way that I enjoy playing "unpopular" sets. (hence I only have several lvl 50 Stalkers and no brute/scrapper/tanker!)|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Wow you're easy to please :P. I had way more issues with the set but the Devs pretty much addressed them except from switching DS with WH...but hopefully the new changes actually make DS WORTH taking *crosses fingers*.
New Changes to singy? So Arbiter Hawk went ahead and decided to change Singularity's attacks to make them more in line with the current Gravity version? |
I enjoyed Gravity because of wormhole. That power is such a gem. Yes, sometimes it sucks on a large team because other melee ATs don't like it when you move the mobs but I usually run teams myself and I would start alpha with wormhole to the corner and then the team can unleash aoe on them.
In fact, my only perma dom is Gravity/Fire and one of my friends (who is a huge fan of Dominator) saw my toon and he made one himself and it is now his most favorite dominator combo as well. He loves wormhole and great fast range attacks from /Fiery (Lift, Fire Blast and Blaze).
I never like DS and I can care less what the new version is going to be. lol I am so confused by what the current version is like. I know my perma dom doesn't have room for it so I am not sweating over DS.
Yes, Singy's current attack chain uses the old animation time which is a lot longer than the current Gravity control. They've made it so the activation time in single immb and single hold are a lot faster. It shows when I tested Singy on beta because you would see more "burst" dot damage from Singy and a bit more pauses because less activation time means the attacks come back quicker in the long run.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Haha! I'm the same way! My first two Control sets were Gravity and Plant. (Plant Control was unpopular back then) I love how unique Gravity is and I consider the set my baby BUT it had soooo many glaring issues...I ended up shelving the toon. Now I might actually play my toon more and...who knows maybe roll another one but I doubt it.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am a weirdo in a way that I enjoy playing "unpopular" sets. (hence I only have several lvl 50 Stalkers and no brute/scrapper/tanker!)
I enjoyed Gravity because of wormhole. That power is such a gem. Yes, sometimes it sucks on a large team because other melee ATs don't like it when you move the mobs but I usually run teams myself and I would start alpha with wormhole to the corner and then the team can unleash aoe on them. In fact, my only perma dom is Gravity/Fire and one of my friends (who is a huge fan of Dominator) saw my toon and he made one himself and it is now his most favorite dominator combo as well. He loves wormhole and great fast range attacks from /Fiery (Lift, Fire Blast and Blaze). I never like DS and I can care less what the new version is going to be. lol I am so confused by what the current version is like. I know my perma dom doesn't have room for it so I am not sweating over DS. Yes, Singy's current attack chain uses the old animation time which is a lot longer than the current Gravity control. They've made it so the activation time in single immb and single hold are a lot faster. It shows when I tested Singy on beta because you would see more "burst" dot damage from Singy and a bit more pauses because less activation time means the attacks come back quicker in the long run. |
I'm going to try DS on beta but I still think the set need more... maybe more damage but I also didn't get a chance to try put the new Singy! I need to log on!
I'm shocked that Arbiter Changes Singy's cast times. He told me via PM that he didn't feel it was wise to update his attacks. This is awesome.
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so for doms with a damage aura it would not be useful if you were near them|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
It would be bad on doms. Your damage Aura would wake them up in a second.
Have you ever tried the Static Field/Rain of Fire Combo? If you use rain of Fire before the mob is drained of end the extra tics of RoF will wake them up and they will kill you before you knew what hit you. Giving Shiver only -Recharge, Sleep and Slow would not be enough for Dominators. |
that does not make it horrible, that makes the sleep addition situationally not useful but in no way makes the power worse
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Well that also rules out all damage auras, all rain powers or anything that ticks for damage/can wake a mob up.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
so for doms with a damage aura it would not be useful if you were near them
that does not make it horrible, that makes the sleep addition situationally not useful but in no way makes the power worse |
If it's a sleep it should pulse or tick like Static Field. That way it would be safer for Dominators...even though I think it needs to have a Stun or Hold added to it rather than a sleep.
I think it should be a clone of...
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Neurot...rotoxic_Breath
This power works a lot like shiver. Just up the chance for hold and the duration and shiver is a power worth taking.
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- Singularity's cast time for Crush has been reduced from 3.1 seconds to 1.33 seconds.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I'm shocked that Arbiter Changes Singy's cast times. He told me via PM that he didn't feel it was wise to update his attacks. This is awesome. |
- Singularity's cast time for Gravity Distortion has been reduced from 3.2 seconds to 1.83 seconds.
That's a HUGE improvement. I didn't know Singy was that bad. lol
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
As long as I am not forced into closing distance any more often than I am now, then fine. Whatever.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan