Here's my take on it.
1. Chilblain- Fine, leave it as is.
2. Block of Ice- Fine, leave it as it
3. Frostbite- Remove the -kb on the power.
4. Arctic Air- Fine, leave it as is.
5. Shiver- Make it a Neurotoxic Breath Clone but with a guaranteed Special or a 75-90% chance Special. The special should be "Target Held for 2 seconds" BUT you can slot holds in it so you have the potential to max it out for 4 or 5 seconds or greater. This will make Shiver Perfect for Alphas Stoppers and it should give you enough time to let AA, Glacier or Ice Slick do its job. If someone would complain that this is OP then you could balance the power out by reducing the values of the slow and -Recharge in the power.
6. Ice Slick- Fine, leave as is.
6. Flash Freeze- Much like many of you have said. Take out the damage and make it a Static Field Clone.
7. Glacier- Fine, leave as is.
8. Jack Frost- This dude is PERFECT! Thank you Arbiter Hawk! SCREEEEE!!! <---Hawk Scream attempt. lol I ended up sounding like an Arachnoid lol.
As far as I'm concerned:
1) half the powers in ice can and typically are skipped because they're redundant or counteract other powers in the set
2) ice is the weakest of the control sets from top to bottom and every other set can CC better and in more situations
Sure, it could be left alone. But why when the tech and mechanics exist to fix it, plus the dev team seems on a roll for lining up sets to make better.
It's now while their eyes are on doms or wait a couple more years for the AT to re-enter the rotation.
Please buff Ice Control.
I've been playing an Ice/Ice Dom for the past few years.. I think. I have to say it's my fave toon, he rolls through PvE. I have to admit I only have the ST hold, Ice Slick, AoE Hold and AA from Ice/. I dont need the AoE Immob, everything is slowed down so much anyways, I wouldnt bother with shiver because I have too many other AoEs to throw down, I dont touch sleep, Jack isn't really useful unless you want slot mule. I find that /Icy/Ice really helps though, Chilling Embrace, Sleet, Frost Breath, ISC, Ice Storm help with that AoE and Slow.
I am IO'd out though, and there are much smarter builds but there is just something fun with this one. Being able to Power boost, Spring attack into the middle of a mob, survive the alpha and drop Glacier is a ton of fun. Yes, I do have 45.6% S/L defense, even more with PB. Sure the Ice/ part is quite weak but you can make it fit.. I love this toon, and I love how I am forced to be in the middle of the mob all the time for maximum potential, and when the mob is spread out and Glacier still hits everyone is just great. Also able to fit Hoarfrost into the build is just awesome.
When my toon got Perma-dom he got about 10x easier to play with the resistance to status effects because I usually take some aggro on a team. You really have to get bonuses to fit your play style to make it work.
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I think you've identified the issues I have with the set. It's not that it doesn't work, it's that half the powers are easily skippable because they're weak or they conflict with the other half.|
Originally Posted by ToxicMantis
I've been playing an Ice/Ice Dom for the past few years.. I think. I have to say it's my fave toon, he rolls through PvE. I have to admit I only have the ST hold, Ice Slick, AoE Hold and AA from Ice/. I dont need the AoE Immob, everything is slowed down so much anyways, I wouldnt bother with shiver because I have too many other AoEs to throw down, I dont touch sleep, Jack isn't really useful unless you want slot mule. I find that /Icy/Ice really helps though, Chilling Embrace, Sleet, Frost Breath, ISC, Ice Storm help with that AoE and Slow.
I am IO'd out though, and there are much smarter builds but there is just something fun with this one. Being able to Power boost, Spring attack into the middle of a mob, survive the alpha and drop Glacier is a ton of fun. Yes, I do have 45.6% S/L defense, even more with PB. Sure the Ice/ part is quite weak but you can make it fit.. I love this toon, and I love how I am forced to be in the middle of the mob all the time for maximum potential, and when the mob is spread out and Glacier still hits everyone is just great. Also able to fit Hoarfrost into the build is just awesome. When my toon got Perma-dom he got about 10x easier to play with the resistance to status effects because I usually take some aggro on a team. You really have to get bonuses to fit your play style to make it work. |
There have been several suggestions here that would fix the situation and make the set much better and more competitive with the other control sets without ruining ice's position as king of slows.
Please buff Ice Control.
My ice/storm would have hwr damage hit pretty hard (a loss) and/or have to work a lot harder to leverage it, if they remove -kb from the aoe Immob. Still, I can see that it would benefit more people, so I would be irritated, but I would deal with it. My ice/storm is softcapped (45%) to aoe, range, energy, and smashimg/lethal, so I guess if it takes me longer to kill stuff, I can at least ignore lots of attacks and survive.
Blah.
Lewis
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Of course, on a team, ally immobs and aoes will still jack up the sleep and the knockdown.
I would like to see damage removed from the sleep. I could live with -kb removed from the immobs, tho I dont like it. I would like to see shiver have a 33% knockdown chance.
However, what I would really love to see, either in addition to or instead of the above, would be a change to glacier where its base duration of hold and its recharge were improved to match that of flashfire, stalagmites, etc. It would give ice a nice unique feel in having a bread and butter pbaoe hold.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Ice Control lacks battle opening move that can reduce alpha damage greatly. Ice Slick is good when you can cast it out of sight and have others to run in.
The only aoe hold is a pbaoe so you need to run in first.
The whole set has synergy problems left and right.
I hate Flash Freeze the most. They should never add damage in a sleep power. It never makes sense to me. It comes out slow as snail and the damage makes it hard to sleep again.
At this point, the only thing I want to see is adding Smashing damage in Ice Slick because every time I see mobs slipping up and down like that, I feel their butts must hurt really bad! I can't help but think they have to suffer some sort of smashing damage during Ice Slick. lol
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I'll just throw my 2 inf. in and say I'd love to see some type of changes happen to Ice Control.
Every time I think about making an Ice Control/* Controller or Dom. I'm like...eeeh...Ice Control is so weak as far as actually controlling mobs (comparing it to earth, mind, plant...etc...).
I have never made an ice control toon that has made it past lvl 8 or so....never know if that will change but...I'd like to see some love for the set.
And yes, I'd like to see other sets buffed/loved too (like TA, FF and Sonic Reson.).
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Ice Control is ok. It doesn't really shine on dominator because your Domination doesn't affect Ice Slick. I've leveled one Ice/Psi to 42 and one Ice/Fiery to 40. The ice/psi combo was made before the nerf on Psionic Shockwave. I was looking for a primary that requires me to go melee and Ice's AA + Shockwave was AWESOME. After the Psi nerf, I haven't played that toon in years.... T_T I didn't even bother respecing him.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I'll just throw my 2 inf. in and say I'd love to see some type of changes happen to Ice Control.
Every time I think about making an Ice Control/* Controller or Dom. I'm like...eeeh...Ice Control is so weak as far as actually controlling mobs (comparing it to earth, mind, plant...etc...). I have never made an ice control toon that has made it past lvl 8 or so....never know if that will change but...I'd like to see some love for the set. |
Ice Control works pretty well on a large team because Ice Slick stops mobs from running away and all the slow debuffs in AA. I mostly just run in with AA on and try to attack/hold. I do need somebody to take alpha for me though because Ice Slick can still get you killed if you don't drop it out of sight.
The pbaoe hold with domination is visually pleasing when it happens. Big ice cube with great sound effect.
I don't use Shiver but it can be useful. And I almost never use aoe immb on dominator. Sue me!!!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I don't think that Ice Control is any better on a controller either...not much in the set benefits from containment and really the only safe control power in the set is Ice Slick : /
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Ice Control is ok. It doesn't really shine on dominator because your Domination doesn't affect Ice Slick. I've leveled one Ice/Psi to 42 and one Ice/Fiery to 40. The ice/psi combo was made before the nerf on Psionic Shockwave. I was looking for a primary that requires me to go melee and Ice's AA + Shockwave was AWESOME. After the Psi nerf, I haven't played that toon in years.... T_T I didn't even bother respecing him.
Ice Control works pretty well on a large team because Ice Slick stops mobs from running away and all the slow debuffs in AA. I mostly just run in with AA on and try to attack/hold. I do need somebody to take alpha for me though because Ice Slick can still get you killed if you don't drop it out of sight. The pbaoe hold with domination is visually pleasing when it happens. Big ice cube with great sound effect. I don't use Shiver but it can be useful. And I almost never use aoe immb on dominator. Sue me!!! |
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It does have better debuff values on a Controller, 81.25% -recharge v. 65% -recharge in Shiver for example, making it much easier to floor the recharge on higher conning enemies. Personally, I think debuffs that mitigate damage (-recharge and -tohit) from a Dom's primary should share the same value as a controllers.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I don't think that Ice Control is any better on a controller either...not much in the set benefits from containment and really the only safe control power in the set is Ice Slick : /
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To me that's still not enough mitigation due to the enemies still being able to fire off their non activated attacks...still I agree with you when it comes to debuff values for controllers and doms. |
Originally Posted by ketch
It does have better debuff values on a Controller, 81.25% -recharge v. 65% -recharge in Shiver for example, making it much easier to floor the recharge on higher conning enemies. Personally, I think debuffs that mitigate damage (-recharge and -tohit) from a Dom's primary should share the same value as a controllers.
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I guess the devs were thinking that a Dominator would dish out more damage/control than controller...but they were dead wrong. So, to compensate they added some buffs: The change of domination (or the need to be permadom), The reduction of the degradation of the Domination bar, The Upscale in damage...still it didn't work so they added the debuffs to the Dom's side of the APP power picks and that gave controllers some competition.
Even after all that certain Dominator Control sets fall flat on their face when the values are reduced...Dark Control is one of the sets that make this issue stand out like a sore thumb. Also Corruptors have a similar issue to some degree.
I know that you already know this Ketch, I just like to hear myself talk er type lol.
For the folks supporting ice control as a strong set, I'd like to suggest one comparison:
Imagine Earth Control without Stalagmites and having some ranged -spd cone called Dust Storm instead. Now you'd have ice control.
Would you play it knowing your opener is now Earthquake from range or charge in and hit Salt Crystals?
Please buff Ice Control.
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[EDIT: edits to tone and clarity]|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
For the folks supporting ice control as a strong set, I'd like to suggest one comparison:
Imagine Earth Control without Stalagmites and having some ranged -spd cone called Dust Storm instead. Now you'd have ice control. Would you play it knowing your opener is now Earthquake from range or charge in and hit Salt Crystals? |
I have characters with both sets, and respectfully disagree with this comparison. IMO some positive points not touched on are Glacier, the fact that Ice Slick's -RunSpeed keeps enemies in the area better than Earthquake considering animation time (EQ + Quicksand takes much longer to cast), and how Arctic Air fits in overall. My Ice characters do not even have Shiver, so the idea of Earth with Shiver being the same as Ice Control is not representative of how I personally use the set.
Also, Salt Crystals < Glacier.
One specific place Ice is fairly competitive, for example, is cast time relative to control effort. On a team with decent buffs and/or with IOs, where alpha strikes matter less, it is entirely possible to pour almost all of your time into damage powers and let the control happen on its own. Earth has to set up Volcanic Gasses + Quicksand to match around what AA does just by the character showing up, then continually recast these powers throughout the fight (with VG not being perma without IOs). AA is one of the only control powers that is almost always available, irrespective of recharge. Getting hit with massive -Recharge or -ToHit debuffs does nothing to curb AAs effectiveness. There is also never a moment where the player has to refrain from using the power toward the end of a fight or risk not having it recharged for the next group, which is, IMO, a significant and often overlooked advantage.
You can see elsewhere in the thread where I give my criticisms of Ice, but IMO Ice is not a Devices or Energy Melee.
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Eh, it still doesn't address the issue about the set having two practically useless powers. AA takes a while before it really starts working it's magic and by then you've been shut down by a LT or two. Ice Slick isn't always a guarantee especially with warwolves and the bunch of other mobs that have a high resistance to kd/kb.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
[EDIT: edits to tone and clarity]
I have characters with both sets, and respectfully disagree with this comparison. IMO some positive points not touched on are Glacier, the fact that Ice Slick's -RunSpeed keeps enemies in the area better than Earthquake considering animation time (EQ + Quicksand takes much longer to cast), and how Arctic Air fits in overall. My Ice characters do not even have Shiver, so the idea of Earth with Shiver being the same as Ice Control is not representative of how I personally use the set. Also, Salt Crystals < Glacier. One specific place Ice is fairly competitive, for example, is cast time relative to control effort. On a team with decent buffs and/or with IOs, where alpha strikes matter less, it is entirely possible to pour almost all of your time into damage powers and let the control happen on its own. Earth has to set up Volcanic Gasses + Quicksand to match around what AA does just by the character showing up, then continually recast these powers throughout the fight (with VG not being perma without IOs). AA is one of the only control powers that is almost always available, irrespective of recharge. Getting hit with massive -Recharge or -ToHit debuffs does nothing to curb AAs effectiveness. There is also never a moment where the player has to refrain from using the power toward the end of a fight or risk not having it recharged for the next group, which is, IMO, a significant and often overlooked advantage. You can see elsewhere in the thread where I give my criticisms of Ice, but IMO Ice is not a Devices or Energy Melee. |
What's your back up for Ice slick? Glacier? To long of a timer on that one and you already used it last mob. AA...great power to have but it doesn't really shine until you slot it with Procs and it takes a while for it to truly kick in AND you are putting yourself in melee which can be deadly.
Now, from here on if you are a controller you're fine, your secondary can keep you alive somewhat but if you're a Dominator you are in trouble unless you have a nice secondary that complements the lack of control of your primary...certain assault sets come to mind like Earth Assault's Tremor, Psionic Assault's Drain Psyche/PSW Ect.
I don't think you guys are looking at this set by it's self OR fully comparing it with other control sets.
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I assume you are talking about the AoE sleep and another power, but I'm not sure which. Shiver? Please read my comments earlier in the thread about these powers. |
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Eh, it still doesn't address the issue about the set having two practically useless powers.
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| I don't think you guys are looking at this set by it's self OR fully comparing it with other control sets. |
Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by 'examining the set by itself.' No set is ever by itself. The power of the set is defined entirely by its relationship to the game world. You hint at this with your statement that Ice Control is better on Controllers than Dominators (a statement I would debate if I had the energy. We'll leave at, any AT with the potential for perma mezz protection and a Mag 6 hold is far from my definition of weak).
For frame of reference, I posted a video of my Ice/Fire incarnate character running around Rikti War Zone. While he's not drop dead amazing, he isn't bad either. I'm sure someone will say that IOs and incarnate powers fix "anything" and it's therefor irrelevant, but that's a subject for another debate, and one in which I would highly disagree (again, see Devices and Energy Melee for examples of sets in much worse shape). One specific thing to look at is how spread out the enemies in each individual group are. A mezz from range would likely not hit the entire spawn.
(Video will be live once it finishes uploading. The first few groups are low level Rikti, and it gradually progresses upward. The black screen at the end is where my video driver crashed :P).
http://youtu.be/rHHiBCFPDOU
EDIT: If some people who feel the set is very poor could post some videos of trying to use the set and failing significantly I'd be interested in seeing them. I have some pretty good ideas about where Ice's holes are, but the level of frustration expressed by some people doesn't match my experience, especially post-mezz protection. Earlier in the thread I identified getting mezzed as Ice's chief worry based on my experiences around levels 30-40. I've certainly tasted the floor at the hands of Ice Control but whether that happens more often with Ice than the other sets is something I think could be highly debated. I've played every set but Gravity to 40 or higher several times, and while Ice has its issues I've never found it as limiting as some posts suggest. That may be because I always team, but I always team with Earth and Electric too due to their initial low damage (on Controllers) and while there are differences, I still do not feel Ice is so far behind as to be worthless.
EDIT2: After watching the video myself, it does make me wish Shiver had a -Range debuff. You can see, I think, that generally the biggest threat to me is anything that gets outside AA. If I could make enemies run toward me more often I'd be a lot better off. Knockdown working with Immobilize would help a lot too (you can see I use the immob very often, specifically to keep enemies positioned. The slow is useful not because its a primary goal but because it means anything temporarily able to move is less able to catch me, usually while another power animates).
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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
However, what I would really love to see, either in addition to or instead of the above, would be a change to glacier where its base duration of hold and its recharge were improved to match that of flashfire, stalagmites, etc. It would give ice a nice unique feel in having a bread and butter pbaoe hold.
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I would love this.
FWIW I think Glacier is one of the best mezzes in the game, for a reason that's rarely cited: high visibility. The other holds/stuns/etc often leave me wondering whats affected and what isn't, where Glacier makes it very clear, even through the huge amount of visual noise this game throws at you.
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I don't have the time right now to read your earlier posts BUT I definitely will when I get the chance bud. Indeed you are correct. I was referring to the AOE sleep and Shiver...I'm not sure what other powers you thought I was talking about since the set has only 9 powers and I already ruled out AA, Ice Slick and Glacier *shrug*.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I assume you are talking about the AoE sleep and another power, but I'm not sure which. Shiver? Please read my comments earlier in the thread about these powers.
Let me clarify. Saying the set isn't totally worthless isn't the same as saying it couldn't be better than it is. If I could post my full thoughts on the set in every individual post I would, but you'll have to read back on the thread to see what else I had to say about the set, which isn't entirely glowing. Still, the set is the one I play the most. And Ice Control is not simply Earth Control with Stalagmites removed. Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by 'examining the set by itself.' No set is ever by itself. The power of the set is defined entirely by its relationship to the game world. You hint at this with your statement that Ice Control is better on Controllers than Dominators (a statement I would debate if I had the energy. We'll leave at, any AT with the potential for perma mezz protection and a Mag 6 hold is far from my definition of weak). For frame of reference, I posted a video of my Ice/Fire incarnate character running around Rikti War Zone. While he's not drop dead amazing, he isn't bad either. I'm sure someone will say that IOs and incarnate powers fix "anything" and it's therefor irrelevant, but that's a subject for another debate, and one in which I would highly disagree (again, see Devices and Energy Melee for examples of sets in much worse shape). (Video will be live once it finishes uploading). http://youtu.be/rHHiBCFPDOU |
Ok, well you answered a few of my questions...your earlier post had a slight flavor of "the set is fine the way it is" so I admit I wanted to what your response would be to my post. I agree Ice Control is not worthless but it does need some help and I agree with you full about the Earth Control comparison...both sets play sooo differently.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by 'examining the set by itself.' No set is ever by itself. The power of the set is defined entirely by its relationship to the game world. You hint at this with your statement that Ice Control is better on Controllers than Dominators (a statement I would debate if I had the energy. We'll leave at, any AT with the potential for perma mezz protection and a Mag 6 hold is far from my definition of weak).
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
EDIT: If some people who feel the set is very poor could post some videos of trying to use the set and failing significantly I'd be interested in seeing them. I have some pretty good ideas about where Ice's holes are, but the level of frustration expressed by some people doesn't match my experience, especially post-mezz protection. Earlier in the thread I identified getting mezzed as Ice's chief worry based on my experiences around levels 30-40. I've certainly tasted the floor at the hands of Ice Control but whether that happens more often with Ice than the other sets is something I think could be highly debated. I've played every set but Gravity to 40 or higher several times, and while Ice has its issues I've never found it as limiting as some posts suggest. That may be because I always team, but I always team with Earth and Electric too due to their initial low damage (on Controllers) and while there are differences, I still do not feel Ice is so far behind as to be worthless.
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I think one great ways to see how Ice Control performs is to try to defeat a mob of council that are -1/+4 OR -1/+6 with a level 20-40 toon by just using Ice Slick and AA and your Dominator Secondary (preferably one without soft control but it's not necessary). With no procs or IO's or Sleet or whatever. I bet to most people this would be pretty challenging to do solo... now take that experience and apply it to serious mobs like Malta, Nemesis and KOA. I think without out reliable back-up soft control and having Ice slick being perma the control of the set can fall apart VERY quickly.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I think one great ways to see how Ice Control performs is to try to defeat a mob of council that are -1/+4 OR -1/+6 with a level 20-40 toon by just using Ice Slick and AA and your Dominator Secondary (preferably one without soft control but it's not necessary). With no procs or IO's or Sleet or whatever. I bet to most people this would be pretty challenging to do solo... now take that experience and apply it to serious mobs like Malta, Nemesis and KOA. I think without out reliable back-up soft control and having Ice slick being perma the control of the set can fall apart VERY quickly.
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This is kind of thing I'd have to pass to an Arcanaville type. I have no idea what threshold at what level range against what enemies is considered acceptable performance. I do know that my Ice Dominator did very little dying (less even than my Ice and Earth Controllers) as he headed toward 50, and from level 40 he was able to powerlevel himself in the AE using ambush spawns. Admittedly, Arctic Air was a lot better at this when enemies still self rezzed.
I do know that my IOed Ice Controller does stuff like Positron TF with no problems, but he still has a few set bonuses from purples. Same with Sutter, Numina, etc. I am considering an Ice/Dark Dominator in the next issue due to what I consider great compatability between these sets in the next issue, and don't anticipate major problems that are especially out of alignment with what I've experienced with Plant, Earth, etc, but will keep my eye out for them. My Plant/Psi Dominator actually died a TON leveling up, mainly due to occasionally wiffing on Seeds of Confusion. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the assumption that anything I aggro will struggle to run up to me.
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Apples and Oranges. The comparison is not a valid one. I can make Apples look sickly sweet by making the Orange the base we compare to or Oranges sour if Apples are the base. You are comparing a melee-centric primary to a range-centric primary.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
For the folks supporting ice control as a strong set, I'd like to suggest one comparison:
Imagine Earth Control without Stalagmites and having some ranged -spd cone called Dust Storm instead. Now you'd have ice control. Would you play it knowing your opener is now Earthquake from range or charge in and hit Salt Crystals? |
I'm not calling it a "strong set" per se (though I believe that when used properly it can be) and I believe that it is much stronger than most of the posters here that call it a weak set realize. What I am calling it a useful and unique set that requires a different play style. If you take and use all the powers and layer your mitigation it's not hard to solo at +0/x4 on SOs at level 22. You'll need to use all the tools that are available to you, like inspirations, and Aid self can be particularly useful for reducing down time between spawns.
If I were to make a recommendation of any kind to the devs it would be to look at sleep powers in general across all ATs and power sets.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Eh, it still doesn't address the issue about the set having two practically useless powers. AA takes a while before it really starts working it's magic and by then you've been shut down by a LT or two. Ice Slick isn't always a guarantee especially with warwolves and the bunch of other mobs that have a high resistance to kd/kb.
What's your back up for Ice slick? Glacier? To long of a timer on that one and you already used it last mob. AA...great power to have but it doesn't really shine until you slot it with Procs and it takes a while for it to truly kick in AND you are putting yourself in melee which can be deadly. Now, from here on if you are a controller you're fine, your secondary can keep you alive somewhat but if you're a Dominator you are in trouble unless you have a nice secondary that complements the lack of control of your primary...certain assault sets come to mind like Earth Assault's Tremor, Psionic Assault's Drain Psyche/PSW Ect. I don't think you guys are looking at this set by it's self OR fully comparing it with other control sets. |
I've played Ice in several different power combinations. If you use all the tools and layer the mitigation it is quite good. You can easily finish off a +0/4x spawn solo before your green bar empties out on SOs only.
No it doesn't compare to electric in that respect (the other melee-centric primary) as I can easily handle a +0/x6 spawn on SOs using only single target attacks. Once their endurance is gone all I have to do is make sure I keep my single target hold on the most troublesome target(s) and just plink away in relative safety.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
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EDIT:Nevermind, I think everyone knows that this set needs a little help to bring it up to snuff. The Jack Buff is one step in the right direction. He's amazing now.
Yes it needs buffing. That was my original point. Jack getting better is great. Now address the sleep, shiver and -kb of the aoe immobilize.
Please buff Ice Control.
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That's an interesting idea with Shiver, a small but potent buff. As is, I have taken Shiver on my Ice Controller, but respecced in and out of it. It's useful in the absence of additional slows, but a bit redundant if you have slows in your attacks. I never could decide definitively if it was useful or not. Putting -range would definitely mesh it more closely with AA and possibly make it preferable to a power like Snow Storm, at least for trollers.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
EDIT2: After watching the video myself, it does make me wish Shiver had a -Range debuff. You can see, I think, that generally the biggest threat to me is anything that gets outside AA. If I could make enemies run toward me more often I'd be a lot better off. Knockdown working with Immobilize would help a lot too (you can see I use the immob very often, specifically to keep enemies positioned. The slow is useful not because its a primary goal but because it means anything temporarily able to move is less able to catch me, usually while another power animates).
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I'd just like to see Flash Freeze turned into a disorient.
The game ends at 50.
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We need more control sets without pets.My characters are not "toons".
They are all project characters, though.Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue
I mostly agree. Ice is reasonably far down my list of sets in need of serious changes. Part of this is that I overcome most of its initial issues with IOs, though.
However, I do feel I need to point out again part of what makes Flash Freeze so terrible--if you take any of the incarnate procs that cause a Damage Over Time, the power ceases to function. In fact, Ice's relationship with Interface procs overall is pretty unfortunate, because where every other set can happily spam its immobilizes, Ice makes a very heavy tradeoff in doing so AND one of its powers stops functioning completely. And with Ice Controllers and the whole Containment issue, in a set with such low damage and uneven control, it feels really egregiously unbalanced.
Regardless, I agree that Energy Melee needs to be fixed way before Ice Control. And I'd add Force Field, Sonic Resonance, and Trick Arrow to that list as well.