Who do we look up to now?
So with States gone, who is a shining example of all that's good? Sure we have people who we can hope to emulate in terms of power and ability, but who is the moral centre now? Who is the heart of Paragon?
States was our Superman, the guiding force, the one that, no matter how bad things got, if you as a civilian saw him arrive on the scene, you knew you were going to be saved and everything would be ok. Now, of course, there are plenty of heroes who can save the day, but there is no one person to exemplify the ideals of the heroic side. I understand the desire to kill him off. I do. I know that with the introduction of Incarnates, we are intended to really become the pre-eminent heroes of the CoH universe. But, frankly, the game still doesn't allow it the way it would for an NPC. No matter how many pedestrians walk by and say "Character X fought the Tsoo and saved that news reporter!", we will never have our characters go accept medals from the president, or even the mayor. We'll never hold press conferences. We'll never give speeches before dozens of the next generation of heroes. We'll never stand on a dais, sharing our wisdom to help someone level up. No matter how you might feel about Statesman as a player, the everyday people of Paragon should sleep a little (or a lot) less comfortably now. So given that we are supposed to become the biggest and the best of all heroes, who amoung us will stand up to be a Paragon of Virtue? And will the game really allow anyone to notice, beyond a few random pedestrian remarks? |
#2. There are ways the devs could facilitate players becoming icoic... like having a get together, say for a memorial, where the players must speak as their character and become a part of the canon...
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I wish they update the signature heroes costumes and powers to shake things up a bit in the supergroups like Freedom Phalanx and Vindicators.
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I guess I'm the only one who always felt that my character was the one who would be THE hero to city/world.
I always assumed the fact that you single handedly save Statesman at least twice was proof that WE are the true heroes. The ones who truly stepped up to save the city/world when it came crashing down around the signature heroes.
I guess I'm the only one who always felt that my character was the one who would be THE hero to city/world.
I always assumed the fact that you single handedly save Statesman at least twice was proof that WE are the true heroes. The ones who truly stepped up to save the city/world when it came crashing down around the signature heroes. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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I think its probable that the people of Paragon would want a successor to Statesman. After all, history is filled with larger-than-life individuals who were lionized because they embodied the traits that their cultures admired. A few examples spring to mind: Joan of Arc, George Washington, Admiral Nelson, El Cid. Im sure you can come up with others.
That said, we should then ask what particular traits would earn this status for a hero in a comic-based setting. In my opinion there are two: (1) overwhelming power and/or (2) a public perception of strong morality. Earlier posters mentioned Superman and Captain America and I think these are good illustrations. From the standpoint of game mechanics, narrative cohesion and internal logic, I dont think it makes sense for player characters to fill this void. I mean, we already have to suspend our disbelief when a pedestrian remarks, Theres Captain Hero Guy. I heard he foiled a Tsoo plot to take over all the citys gangs, and we heard the same thing about Brave Valiant Lady the day before. And the Scarlet Stud Muffin on the day before that. In my opinion, canon and in-game lore should provide background and a stable framework for the world in which our characters operate. Yes, our heroes become increasingly prominent and respected in this world, but how many true paragons of virtue can one city sustain? Its their very uniqueness that makes them stand out. If youve got thousands of Statesmen running around, then what was once the lofty ideal just becomes commonplace. So if you accept this argument, were still left with the question of who will assume the role of preeminent hero in the wake of Statesmans demise. Logically, theyll either have to elevate an existing character or create a new one. I havent the foggiest idea if or how the devs will attempt this. Someone mentioned earlier the possibility of Ms. Liberty stepping into her grandfathers shoes and this has a certain appeal. Personally, Im rooting for Flower Knight. I dont believe that shes used that much in terms of game lore and shes certainly had a lot of free time since they changed the tutorial. Id love to see a storyline where she surprises everyone and ascends to the next level. Let Flower Knight bloom! |
But I agree. If it's the player characters who become Statesman's replacement, then it's just not as impressive when it's so many heroes.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Do players want their characters to be the new Statesman? I'm sure a lot do. From a story perspective however, it's just not impressive when all characters are.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Though on the bright side, while I'm sure many want their characters to be said character, I'm glad to stick to my X-23/Spider-Girl hybrid of a character, who isn't a hero one would put into that place, but is a hero none the less.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Of course, I also RP, so the idea of everyone saying "I'm the new Statesman" seems as bad to me as everyone saying "Yeah, I'm the one who discovered what happened to Hero One"
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I'm not sure if "strong morality" is such a good idea. I know it's a turnoff for me, at least, as such characters tend to feel more like icons than real people. Remember when Sonic the Hedgehog was an icon of his times and the hallmark of a whole generation? He did that not by being the paragon of honour, justice and truthfulness but by being a cheeky smarmy wiseass who thumbed his nose at the world's villains (often literally) and simply proved too fast to catch and too strong to beat.
Personally, if I had my vote for who would be our next "icon," it would be someone like that.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm not sure if "strong morality" is such a good idea. I know it's a turnoff for me, at least, as such characters tend to feel more like icons than real people. Remember when Sonic the Hedgehog was an icon of his times and the hallmark of a whole generation? He did that not by being the paragon of honour, justice and truthfulness but by being a cheeky smarmy wiseass who thumbed his nose at the world's villains (often literally) and simply proved too fast to catch and too strong to beat.
Personally, if I had my vote for who would be our next "icon," it would be someone like that. |
I'm not sure I should do this, but one could point out that with what has been going on in the world that the death of Statesman is symbolic of those events and that the leaving that "leadership" position vacant and in it's place the masses is also symbolic of world events... but i could also just be reading into things ^.^
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Bring it on.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Be well, people of CoH.
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To the OP
Hero 1, that is all.
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Personally most of the icon heroes never did much for me. Heck most where blatant direct spoofs of mainstream comic icons and we all know which ones.
However among the lore of the history of paragon there is one story alone of 2 heroes who frankly lived and died as fair little comic stories in thier own right.
Galaxy Girl and her partner Dauntless! Surprisingly few people I RP with on virtue know as much as I do, and all I really know is the same info anyone else has access to, maybe spiced up abit with my imagination.
Once upon a time there was a girl named kelly and a boy named robbie, and they grew up together in Paragon Heights. Never heard of it? well its a lost region still ruined to this day.
Kelly was a little red headed spitfire of an irish girl who was always quick to protect little robbie who the bullies liked to call runt. More then once she knocked down a boy bigger then her to make a point size didnt matter. Robbie learned that lesson from her to.
So they grew up, and kelly was always helping out and looking out for those in need around the Heights. Then one night fate would take her down a dark alley, and there in a moment of action faster then thought and a flurry of gun fire her powers as a kin/energy defender would manifest.
Soon robbie caught on to kelly flying around as galaxy girl and made it clear he wasnt going to let her do that kind of dangerous stuff without him at her back.
Years passed and they grew into adults, and heroes in the fullest sense of the word both in and out of the tights. It was at the soup kitchen where kelly volunteered that a challenge she wasnt ready for would strike.
Attacked by an assassin who specialized in killing capes, she was caught off guard and made the mistake of holding back with so many eye witnesses around. Overwhelmed all seemed lost for her and the people at the shelter.
Dauntless a mere man came at the meta human monster who had layed mightier beings then him low, with a fury of fist and shield( I always imagine dauntless as a shield guy dont know why) drawing a line in the sand with his own life. he bought kelly the time she needed to recover and draw upon the kinetic energy released in the fight.
However it was only as the killer dealt his coup de grace' to Dauntless that kelly was able to overwhelm and drive off the monster. dauntless died that day a hero far to little known for all his heroic sacrifice.
But that wasnt the end. No kelly kept going, but after robbie, her heart was gone, and soon she retired to being more of a mother to the troubled youth of the Heights.
When the war came with the rikti and the first ships appeared in the sky, she was among the first in the air holding a line, a grand motherly lady in an old cape that hadnt seen an iron in years.
During the battle a group of heroes lead by miss liberty where surrounded and cut off as a retreat was ordered. Refusing to give ground any more then dauntless had for her she put herself between the young heroes and a volly. She pulled in more kinetic energy then she had ever dared, focussed it through herself. A field enveloped the stranded, laser fire dispersed like sunlight on a prism. The explosion vaporized the rikti and left the region ravaged, but miraculously the young heroes and the civilians they had tried to lead to safety where unharmed. No sign of Galaxy Girl was ever discovered.
Now those are heroes to look up to. just my two inf.
Wasn't Ms. Liberty also entrusted with Excalibur by Hero 1? That conveys a certain amount of gravitas. Presumably, the sword's otherworldly creators would not consent to it being carried around by a punk. This could be construed as recognition of her greater potential. After all, King Arthur and Hero 1 are pretty good company.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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i just resubbed...
i *just* found out that Statesman is being killed.
i'm sad, i really like Statesman. to me he's very iconic of CoH. i'm sad to see him go.
so what about Recluse? what about States' TF? and who will be on the webpage now fighting that big robot? these are the things i'm concerned about. =)
also, yeah, the signature characters need costume and roster updates badly. but we all know this.
My main's opinion of Statesman can be found in an interview I wrote in response to a "writing challenge" in the Virtue forums many years ago. Cat Stevie, also of Virtue, has a similar outlook. (I really, really need to update and just plain redesign my CoH pages.)
With a few exceptions (another interview for the same "challenge"), my characters never "looked up" to Statesman and won't be any more (or less) affected by his death than they would be by the death of any hero.
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So given that we are supposed to become the biggest and the best of all heroes, who amoung us will stand up to be a Paragon of Virtue? And will the game really allow anyone to notice, beyond a few random pedestrian remarks?
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As some folks say (and as at least one sad madman wished) Nobody truly appreciates an artist until after they're gone. I would like to posit that in Statesman's case (as in the case of many real and imagined heroes throughtout time) this will be the way it'll play out, or at least how they hope to portray it in game.
Instead of looking at his negative traits, we can now look at his positive traits and, with our heroes, hope to reach what he accomplished in his lifetime. The goal here is who is Paragon supposed to look up to?
Now? Us. The ball's in our court.
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I couldn't agree more.
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With the death of Statesman, the heroes of Paragon City have found a new visage to look up to.
Themselves.
![]() With the death of Statesman, the heroes of Paragon City have found a new visage to look up to. Themselves. |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
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Space.
It's now the only limit left, and beyond that is exploration of said noiseless vacuum.
States is gone, so there isn't a set path. It's a ''make your own/control your own destiny.'' Paragon's of the past have faded with his death, and soon all the other bigwigs of the game will also die off. Then we'll be in a stand off against Wade, and from there Recluse and his band. Once all the Freedom Phalanx dies, Wade is eventually killed off, Lord Recluse falls, and his band is destroyed; we'll all get two notices in a weeks time span. First notice, '' World Of Heroes (or City Of Heroes 2 is launching for beta in..) '' and a week after, '' Server consolidation on the old COH game will be..''
Keep rollin rollin rollin'...
I guess I'm the only one who always felt that my character was the one who would be THE hero to city/world.
I always assumed the fact that you single handedly save Statesman at least twice was proof that WE are the true heroes. The ones who truly stepped up to save the city/world when it came crashing down around the signature heroes. |
But I still liked voting up BillZ as the new icon for the next Wade to go after...
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
total kick to the gut
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
But I still liked voting up BillZ as the new icon for the next Wade to go after... |
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
EDIT: In all seriousness, the more I ponder that, the more I find myself annoyed by it. Heroes don't give up. Fighting until you are incapable of fighting has always been a hallmark of "hero."
What should have happened:
Statesman gets hit with the bolt from the blue. It initially drops him to his knees, his skin cooking. Slowly, he forces himself back to his feet, step by agonizing step he makes his way to Wade. Costume long burnt off, most of his flesh turned to charcoal, brain being cooked, he gets his hands around Wade's neck and THEN drops dead at Wade's feet.
That's how a hero acts. He doesn't say, "ahh, screw it, this guy may have murdered my daughter, endangered and caused pain to my friends, let someone else deal with it. Maybe that baby-eating, cigar chewing, devil guy will save the day."
Be well, people of CoH.
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I wish they update the signature heroes costumes and powers to shake things up a bit in the supergroups like Freedom Phalanx and Vindicators.