Who do we look up to now?
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2012-01-18 07:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
There has and will always be only one man worth looking up to when things seem darkest
Count Alphonse Crey! I have been RPing him for years and so I can personally assure you all here, there is absolutely no one more committed to protecting humanity from the tyranny of all META.
We look up to Ourselves !
It'll be an all out WAR of heroes now. Beatin the snot out of each other to be "KING (or QUEEN) of the hill". The blood spattered bodies of the defeated will....
What ? No killing ? But Statesm... and Darren just.... Well poo... nevermind. I think I hear a glowie.... <slaps random Hellion on a fly by>.
:P
**Damien**
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss.
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. "
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Since everyone's morality differs I'll have to say I disagree and move on.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
People, in general, like to have a single figure to focus on. Similar to what I said above, if Darkseid was coming at me, I'd rather have Superman than Batman standing in front of me. On the Marvel side, Captain America was pretty much their lead good guy for a long time.
I am not saying that we as player need someone to emulate. My characters forge their own paths. But often in literature, film, or whatever, there tends to be a character that stands our as a moral centre of the story. Now, of course, we should be able to be that person, but would the game be able to allow it? For an NPC, no problem. Just write everything that way. But to have the game respond to a character as such? Harder. |
I'm not going to speak ill of the dead, and get into the problems I saw with State's "morality."
I'll leave it here.
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Quote:
Havent seen that newer batman/superman animated film where darksied takes super girl for a new soldier. Superman for all his power is NOT the reason Darksied yields in the end.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
People, in general, like to have a single figure to focus on. Similar to what I said above, if Darkseid was coming at me, I'd rather have Superman than Batman standing in front of me. On the Marvel side, Captain America was pretty much their lead good guy for a long time.
I am not saying that we as player need someone to emulate. My characters forge their own paths. But often in literature, film, or whatever, there tends to be a character that stands our as a moral centre of the story. Now, of course, we should be able to be that person, but would the game be able to allow it? For an NPC, no problem. Just write everything that way. But to have the game respond to a character as such? Harder. |
Quoting darksied best i can "Well played human, had the amazon or the kryptonian tried such a gamble I would have called thier bluff. But you? No your own kind slaughter each other for table scraps. Only you would I believe capable of such an act."
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You know, it's comments like this that bring a smile to my face and a good chuckle. Especially the 'random hellion' comment. My day is made. Thanks Damienray.
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Originally Posted by damienray
We look up to Ourselves !
It'll be an all out WAR of heroes now. Beatin the snot out of each other to be "KING (or QUEEN) of the hill". The blood spattered bodies of the defeated will.... What ? No killing ? But Statesm... and Darren just.... Well poo... nevermind. I think I hear a glowie.... <slaps random Hellion on a fly by>. :P |
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
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".... the fight raged on for a century, many lives were claimed but eventually, the champion stood, the rest saw their better....|
Originally Posted by damienray
We look up to Ourselves !
It'll be an all out WAR of heroes now. Beatin the snot out of each other to be "KING (or QUEEN) of the hill". The blood spattered bodies of the defeated will.... What ? No killing ? But Statesm... and Darren just.... Well poo... nevermind. I think I hear a glowie.... <slaps random Hellion on a fly by>. :P |
... Mister Rogers in a bloodstained sweater...."
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
If the point is to have us be the heroes to look up to, we're all in a lot of trouble. How many of us go out of our ways to design flaws in our characters? Or to give them self-serving or vigilante motivations or things that aren't really even part of the Paragon theme of heroism?
Leaders and icons are really rare individuals and they're paragons of virtue for a reason; they act in ways others wish to emulate but still look to for inspiration. Now take a moment and not only look around the playerbase but also look at the Phalanx and tell me who fits that bill if not Statesman.
Yes, Statesman can be seen as a chariacture or two-dimensional, but he still embodies the paragon of virtue ideal better than any other heroic character. Arnabas said it best, if things are really dire, and you're looking for the hero who can turn it around when noone else can, you won't be looking to Manticore or Positron. You'll be looking to Statesman.
Now given that a)a lot of people hate Statesman for that apparently self-pious characterisation and b) A lot of people will just seek to emulate him and finally c)Some people will outrightly reject the notion to be a 'better' hero, you wind up with an incredibly small number of people who could theoretically step forward.
And you can't have an army of leaders; that dooms any chance of success outright. And will the City of Heroes accept a player character that steps forward?
No. I expect the story will foist one upon us (most likely Positron in a non-too-ironic twist of fate) and the only ball we'll be carrying is the one we fancy ourselves capable of carrying whilst never being acknowledged as such.
I know that's a harsh assessment, but the notion of the players being in the spotlight is kind of ludicrous. We're not permanent fixtures in the story, we're only being told that we can handle something the Phalanx cannot, which happens in every single Task Force with their name attached.
The status quo remains.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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I guess I am not explaining my thoughts too well.... I agree with what you're saying. I am talking about something a bit different.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Since everyone's morality differs I'll have to say I disagree and move on.
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Whatever you or I might think of Statesman as a character, he was intended to be the lead hero of Paragon, if not all of Primal Earth. Did he succeed? Up to each of us to decide individually. Do we need to emulate him and do exactly as he does? Again, up to the individual.
Do heroes kill? Some say yes, some say no. I'm not looking for that kind of discussion.
What I am asking, is if the idea behind killing off the main hero of the game lore is to allow us to shine, how do we do that? I am not talking about my character imposing his views of morality, and right/ wrong on you, or being the lead character when we play together. When you play you are the star of the show. When I play my scrapper, he is the ultimate, be-all, end-all hero of the game for me and, in my head at least, he is a great, revered hero to the people of Paragon. When I log him out and play my tanker, then my tanker is the be-all, end-all hero of the game. I am not talking about affecting anyone else's play, or anything like that.
Froma game lore perspective and a game mechanics point of view, how can my/your/ his/ her character become that main character in the eyes of the NPCs? We have saved the world many times, yes, but for me, being the top hero of the game is more than just punching/ blasting/ holding thing things. I am just wondering how this might be achieved.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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Ummm, in all the tfs, sf, etc my heroes have done NONE of them involved any of the Freedom Phalanx coming to the rescue. I'll say again I'll have to agree to disagree on who is or isn't a permanent fixture in the story.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
I know that's a harsh assessment, but the notion of the players being in the spotlight is kind of ludicrous. We're not permanent fixtures in the story, we're only being told that we can handle something the Phalanx cannot, which happens in every single Task Force with their name attached. The status quo remains. S. |
More critically in all the Incarnate trials it's OUR Incarnates doing the heavy lifting, NOT ANYONE in the Phalanx.
/shrug.
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Quote:
Do you know that after you complete a mission or beat a boss npcs on the street actually yell out to you about the deeds you just completed.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I guess I am not explaining my thoughts too well.... I agree with what you're saying. I am talking about something a bit different.
Whatever you or I might think of Statesman as a character, he was intended to be the lead hero of Paragon, if not all of Primal Earth. Did he succeed? Up to each of us to decide individually. Do we need to emulate him and do exactly as he does? Again, up to the individual. Do heroes kill? Some say yes, some say no. I'm not looking for that kind of discussion. What I am asking, is if the idea behind killing of the main hero of the game lore is to allow us to shine, how do we do that? I am not talking about my character imposing his views of morality, and right/ wrong on you, or being the lead character when we play together. When you play you are the star of the show. When I play my scrapper, her is the ultimate, be-all, end-all hero of the game for me and, in my head at least, he is a great, revered hero to the people of Paragon. When I log him out and play my tanker, then my tanker is the be-all, end-all hero of the game. I am not talking about affecting anyone else's play, or anything like that. Froma game lore perspective and a game mechanics point of view, how can my/your/ his/ her character become that main character in the eyes of the NPCs? We have saved the world many times, yes, but for me, being the top hero of the game is more than just punching/ blasting/ holding thing things. I am just wondering how this might be achieved. |
That's been a feature of the game for YEARS. Just saying we ALREADY ARE the main characters in the eyes of NPCs.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I didn't say coming to the rescue, Aura. I said in all the TF's that we do something that the Phalanx can't do and we can. They are there 24/7/365. They are constants.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Ummm, in all the tfs, sf, etc my heroes have done NONE of them involved any of the Freedom Phalanx coming to the rescue. I'll say again I'll have to agree to disagree on who is or isn't a permanent fixture in the story.
|
We are not. We go away, we play other games, we quit the game.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Quote:
Yeah they are constants standing around while the world burns.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
I didn't say coming to the rescue, Aura. I said in all the TF's that we do something that the Phalanx can't do and we can. They are there 24/7/365. They are constants.
We are not. We go away, we play other games, we quit the game. S. |
If our heroes didn't do the things we did in all those tfs, etc, there would have been no Paragon City years ago.
I don't consider them constants in anything relevant.
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Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
True, yeah, but I suspect that after yelling "Character X just beat Nemesis!" (or whatever), they probably discuss it with their friends and say "Wow, some day he might be as great as Statesman!" Lol|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Do you know that after you complete a mission or beat a boss npcs on the street actually yell out to you about the deeds you just completed.
That's been a feature of the game for YEARS. Just saying we ALREADY ARE the main characters in the eyes of NPCs. |
And I have yet to be called in for a press conference and given a medal while crowds chant my name and take pics of me kissing their babies.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
I guess I am not explaining my thoughts too well.... I agree with what you're saying. I am talking about something a bit different.
Whatever you or I might think of Statesman as a character, he was intended to be the lead hero of Paragon, if not all of Primal Earth. Did he succeed? Up to each of us to decide individually. Do we need to emulate him and do exactly as he does? Again, up to the individual. Do heroes kill? Some say yes, some say no. I'm not looking for that kind of discussion. What I am asking, is if the idea behind killing of the main hero of the game lore is to allow us to shine, how do we do that? I am not talking about my character imposing his views of morality, and right/ wrong on you, or being the lead character when we play together. When you play you are the star of the show. When I play my scrapper, her is the ultimate, be-all, end-all hero of the game for me and, in my head at least, he is a great, revered hero to the people of Paragon. When I log him out and play my tanker, then my tanker is the be-all, end-all hero of the game. I am not talking about affecting anyone else's play, or anything like that. Froma game lore perspective and a game mechanics point of view, how can my/your/ his/ her character become that main character in the eyes of the NPCs? We have saved the world many times, yes, but for me, being the top hero of the game is more than just punching/ blasting/ holding thing things. I am just wondering how this might be achieved. |
Hm, I'm not saying I disagree with you but I do think you may be thinking too hard about this.
You are correct in saying that when you play your character is the most important character in the game. In fact, that's kind of the point of an RPG. You, as the player, get to decide where you fit in the game universe and, as you play, you get to build your own personal story around your exploits.
If, as a player, you decide to become a moral center of the game universe, that's well and good. If you want any recognition of that to actually happen in game, well, you might be out of luck because thousands of other people are shooting for the same goal.
Decide for yourself where you take your character. Enjoy the ride. Write it down in prose or verse or song if thats what you want to do. Don't worry about anyone elses definition. It is only a game.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
I don't know if it's a case of looking up to anyone. Statesman was the figurehead, but one reason he has died is because many of the player base didn't actually respect him or look up to him. Hence, he was easier to take out of the game.
I viewed many of the FP as "long distance mentors" - the guys who were there to call upon, if the ordure impacts the thermantidote. Now, as the story progresses, they are largely superfluous to requirements and increasingly becoming irrelevant as the game becomes our characters' story.
And if that was too serious, then Faultline - because anyone who can cope with Fusionette for more than 20 minutes at a stretch is a genuine hero!
Thelonious Monk
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lol you're asking for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much in an mmo.
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
True, yeah, but I suspect that after yelling "Character X just beat Nemesis!" (or whatever), they probably discuss it with their friends and say "Wow, some day he might be as great as Statesman!" Lol
And I have yet to be called in for a press conference and given a medal while crowds chant my name and take pics of me kissing their babies. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
My characters pretty much only ever looked up to themselves. That's not going to change.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Yeah they are constants standing around while the world burns.
If our heroes didn't do the things we did in all those tfs, etc, there would have been no Paragon City years ago. I don't consider them constants in anything relevant. |
As you wish. I agree to disagree with you, but I was arguing from the position of where we stand in the game to where they do. They will be here, presuming the game is around in the future, and you and I will not. It was nothing more complicated than that.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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It can't. Not in anyway that works with the storyline anyways.|
Originally Posted by Thor's Assassin
Sadly it feels like the trend. Jack Emmert (am I still allowed to say that name here?) as Statesman and now Matt Miller as Positron. I would like for it to somehow creatively turn to our heroes as the ones we look up to but I don't know how that could be achieved.
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Look at how it is now. Romulus, Imperious, Statesman, dead...and not because of you character.
Not to mention all the other stuff that goes on, and in in game storyline, your character really wasn't all that involved.
And would it make since if it did? We have the joke about the MAGI vault, when it was how many missions exactly that something got stolen from there? One?
So the new joke would be, everyone's being looked up to to replace Statesman? Wow. And people thought he was a joke, but it took over 5000 heroes to replace him? That says something impressive about Statesman.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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In the game, Statesman is looked up to. Just because the player base went the other way with it, doesn't mean that's not how it is in lore. And admittedly, maybe not with players characters as they again, dont want to go along with it, but the citizens, other heroes, they all looked up to Statesman, even if they didn't agree with him.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I don't know if it's a case of looking up to anyone. Statesman was the figurehead, but one reason he has died is because many of the player base didn't actually respect him or look up to him. Hence, he was easier to take out of the game.
I viewed many of the FP as "long distance mentors" - the guys who were there to call upon, if the ordure impacts the thermantidote. Now, as the story progresses, they are largely superfluous to requirements and increasingly becoming irrelevant as the game becomes our characters' story. And if that was too serious, then Faultline - because anyone who can cope with Fusionette for more than 20 minutes at a stretch is a genuine hero! |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You've been RPing a guy in coma?
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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
There has and will always be only one man worth looking up to when things seem darkest
Count Alphonse Crey! I have been RPing him for years... |
Just a though but in the long run would could Lord Recluse turn to the light side and replace Statesman? Now that Marcus is dead, Stefan might have a change of tune...
Just a thought...
@EU Blue Blaze
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Lol, well, obviously.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
lol you're asking for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much in an mmo.
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I am giving that as an example of events in-game that the top-tier heroes would possibly be involved it. I am merely asking how we might become-- if we choose to-- a hero at the level of Statesman and have it reflected in the game.
I'm starting to wonder if you are intentionally missing my point.
For the record, I do not want to roleplay a press conference, or kiss babies. Press conferences are boring and as for the babies... Bill can have them.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
There has and will always be only one man worth looking up to when things seem darkest
Count Alphonse Crey! I have been RPing him for years and so I can personally assure you all here, there is absolutely no one more committed to protecting humanity from the tyranny of all META. |
From an RPers point of view, I really hope you are joking...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I am not saying that we as player need someone to emulate. My characters forge their own paths. But often in literature, film, or whatever, there tends to be a character that stands our as a moral centre of the story. Now, of course, we should be able to be that person, but would the game be able to allow it? For an NPC, no problem. Just write everything that way. But to have the game respond to a character as such? Harder.
Est sularis oth Mithas