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If the wound is on the face, would the salt be applied with a slap?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
It's salting the wound.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yes, with rock salt.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If the wound is on the face, would the salt be applied with a slap?
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Positron's kind of a bad example though.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
And the worse of it, Positron knows the system doesn't reasonably allow many popular character concepts and it's something they're unable or unwilling to address. But hey, his armored ranged hero can exist because when you hold the keys to the sandbox, you can do whatever you want. Lucky him.
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The signature character looks like he's wearing armor, but doesn't actually have any armor powers. He gets rad emission and rad blast. His signature power is Overcharge, which really isn't any more interesting or powerful than Barrier.
Sure, when Matt Miller logs into the game he can grant himself all the powers he wants. He can also become 100' high and arbitrarily kick people from the server if he wants (though he'd have a lot of 'splainin to do to the execs).
He can also write in fiction and comic books that Positron the character has armor. Well, you know what, so can everyone else. In fact, my namesake hero is a tech blaster with power armor -- that's what it says in his bio and other material. Come to think of it, I'm actually a lot closer to that character concept than Positron because I'm at the ranged defense softcap thanks to set bonuses.
There's more than a couple cheating NPCs in the game to complain about, but the for the most part the Phalanx and ones with matching red names aren't among them.
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Originally Posted by MTS
The signature character looks like he's wearing armor, but doesn't actually have any armor powers.
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Did you watch the Vidoc? The FIRST thing Positron lists about the character's abilities is that he's extremely tough because he's armored.
And he is. I've seen eight player characters beat on him and he shrugs it off for a good while without even being knocked down.
He's got mez protection and more HP and resistance than any player Defender. He's closer to being "armored" than any player made Defender, and without even being a proper Incarnate. He doesn't even need purple IOs.
So yes, in game and out, Positron the character, along with many of the signature characters, flouts the oppressive rules and AT system that binds player characters. All the while the devs could do better at allowing for popular character concepts that system currently doesn't support very well. But they don't, and that's the sore spot.
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A standard boss - they need to be able to fight up to 8 people at once, so making them be the same power level as just one of those 8 would be stupid.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I've seen eight player characters beat on him and he shrugs it off for a good while without even being knocked down.
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And if he was only as powerful as one player, just imagine the "gimmicks" he'd be using when he had to fight 8
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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While the NPCs having abilities I wish I could give characters (or rather being the type of character I wish I could create as well) doesn't really agitate me, I have to agree...Positron is just as Posi said, armored.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Did you watch the Vidoc? The FIRST thing Positron lists about the character's abilities is that he's extremely tough because he's armored.
And he is. I've seen eight player characters beat on him and he shrugs it off for a good while without even being knocked down. He's got mez protection and more HP and resistance than any player Defender. He's closer to being "armored" than any player made Defender, and without even being a proper Incarnate. He doesn't even need purple IOs. So yes, in game and out, Positron the character, along with many of the signature characters, flouts the oppressive rules and AT system that binds player characters. All the while the devs could do better at allowing for popular character concepts that system currently doesn't support very well. But they don't, and that's the sore spot. . |
While I can feel armored on a few Defender primaries, RAD was never one of them.
Not to mention Mez Protection. Which, I thought they could of just given the squishies easily enough in their Epic Pools.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I agree with you on this. When in a TF as an enemy he should be upped in power for the story to work when it's 8 players taking him on.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A standard boss - they need to be able to fight up to 8 people at once, so making them be the same power level as just one of those 8 would be stupid.
And if he was only as powerful as one player, just imagine the "gimmicks" he'd be using when he had to fight 8 |
However, that's hime without that too. But...also like I said, doesn't bother me. I just wish they'd do some things to make the squishies feel a bit more like Posi. Even if that means waiting for Epics and not Destiny Power
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I'd question the notion than Manticore had any powers prior to City of Villains. Even Chimera, I understand, was Katana exclusively before the Archery set was introduced.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
We had a Blaster turned Defender who used arrows when players couldn't for five issues.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Yes, with rock salt.
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Citadel has access to ALL THE WORLD'S DATABASES?
What???????
Ooooooook, so there is NO chance of all our credit, military, intellectual property and other knowledge bases including our personals being misused or otherwise compromised by anyone, especially seeing that the Council tried to clone him and Citadel appears in a variety of villain and hero arcs...
Wow.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Oh, we're talking about AVs being tougher than player characters? My mistake, I thought we were talking about how the signature characters flaunt the overly restrictive AT rules of primary and secondary power sets (and some do, just not the Phalanx, and not a majority).|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
And he is. I've seen eight player characters beat on him and he shrugs it off for a good while without even being knocked down.
He's got mez protection and more HP and resistance than any player Defender. He's closer to being "armored" than any player made Defender, and without even being a proper Incarnate. He doesn't even need purple IOs. |
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I agree with you on this. When in a TF as an enemy he should be upped in power for the story to work when it's 8 players taking him on.
However, that's hime without that too. But...also like I said, doesn't bother me. I just wish they'd do some things to make the squishies feel a bit more like Posi. Even if that means waiting for Epics and not Destiny Power |
50% Base To-Hit (Players get 75%)*However*, as GG and BrandX noted, AVs are designed to be fought by many players at once, and driven by a relatively stupid AI. Even then he has some disadvantages. On the game's default difficulty, you will never fight AV Posi alone. You'll fight EB Posi, who has:
20% Regeneration (Players get 25%)
Mag 4 Mez Protection (Players get mag 1), except to Taunt, Placate, Immobolize, and Sleep to which he only gets mag 3.
28,271 HP (Players get around 1,150 base on average)
800 Endurance. Cheater.
400% Damage Cap, not that it really matters since he doesn't get any enhancements or damage buffs. (Players get 400%, 500%, or 775% depending on AT)
Considerably higher damage modifiers than players, on the order of 15 times higher.
50 seconds of mag 50 mez protection out of every 75 seconds (purple triangles). Players get a varying amount of transient mez protection of varying duration, depending on how many break frees they carry and use.
20% Resistance to Smashing, Lethal, and Energy. That's a tiny bit higher than unslotted Charged Armor on a Blaster. Slotted, squishy players can get up to 30% or so.
13% Regeneration (compared to player's 25%)Or maybe even Boss-level Posi, depending on the level range and what mission you're doing:
5,354 HP
Damage modifiers only around 8 times higher than a player.
Same regen as an EB, 7m 40s from 1 to full, considerably less than players.So, given that NPCs have some significant disadvantages like lower regen, 25% less to-hit than players, and AI that's dumb as a box of rocks. Most players can easily beat Boss Posi one-on-one without breaking a sweat, and many can solo EB Posi without much trouble.
2,570 HP (slightly higher than Tanker base, reachable for EATs, Brutes, and Tankers)
Damage scale around 6-7 times higher than players. Keep in mind that this is before enhancements and buffs, so really it's only around 2-3 times higher.
Does NOT have Overcharge.
Seems reasonably fair to me, when he's scaled for a one-on-one fight he's only as tough as his 20% resist - comparable to an epic pool shield. If you're facing the EB version, he has his "Godmode" power that gives him 60% Defense -- easily counterable with a few yellows.
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Sonic/AR or Ar/Sonic with APP and/or power pools.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
To be fair, that's not always the case. If you're someone like me who likes the "power armour minigun guy," you're pretty much SOL. There's no AT that has both a minigun AND armour in its powers... That's ignoring the fact that no AT has minigun to begin with, that's easier to solve.
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| There's also no AT that has both pistols and fast reflexes, nor an AT that has both a sword and a gun. |
Sword and gun: Not so easy, but there are several gun temp powers and plenty of sword sets.
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| While I realise that those are just the limits of the game, having signature characters that CAN have this really does play with my emotions more often than not. |
Anyway, watched the Vidoc and it was interesting. Appreantly there's much more to come in part two that will make some of the odd inclusions and exclusions more understandable.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Did you? The first thing dev-Positron said was that NPC-Positron is a brilliant scientist, who built a suit that allows him to harness antimatter.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Did you watch the Vidoc? The FIRST thing Positron lists about the character's abilities is that he's extremely tough because he's armored.
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Plus, I didn't hear him say "as tough as Citadel or Statesman", just "extremely tough". It is absolutely possible for a player-built defender to become "extremely tough" at higher levels (y'know, where you could start to consider Positron as an equal). On SOs alone, a defender with Tough and an epic resist shield can easily get above 60% S/L resist all the time, and if they take Force of Nature they can cap all their resists (except Psi) for 120 seconds at a time. Many defender builds can reach the softcap to one or more defense types. Plus, they sometimes have buffs and heals in their primary that help them stay alive, or so I've heard.
But even without building for survivability, a level 50 defender using Walk can take a rocket launcher to the face and live to tell about it.
This is the problem with letting lead designers put their vanity characters into the gamelore: it just pisses people off. It happened with Statesman, now it's happening with Positron.
Not letting me complete SSAIV without my character saying Positron was more important than Statesman is lame and, in my opinion, completely incorrect. Positron saying you could "tag along" with him is lame. I've beaten him 1v1. Why shouldn't he tag along with me? Positron claiming he formed the Freedom Phalanx in the 80s is lame. Positron, a tech-based character, being the guardian of the flames of Prometheus is lame. Add to this Positron being a character Matt Miller shoe-horned into the game, and this entire thing smacks of wish fulfilment.
I know from personal experience that the writers in this game do not take criticism well. But please, enough with the vanity characters. The player character should be treated as #1. ESPECIALLY now that we have all these nonsense incarnate powers.
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Yes. He's a computer, thus he can access any other computer in the world. But don't worry, only data that's relevant to the current plot will ever be compromised. The Council might hack the floorplans for all the banks in town or the codes for a nuclear missile or the mayor's Facebook, but never all at the same time.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Citadel has access to ALL THE WORLD'S DATABASES?
What??????? Ooooooook, so there is NO chance of all our credit, military, intellectual property and other knowledge bases including our personals being misused or otherwise compromised by anyone, especially seeing that the Council tried to clone him and Citadel appears in a variety of villain and hero arcs... Wow. |
Just repeat to yourself "it's just a comic book, I should really just relax".
Character index
Citadel...the harbinger of Skynet!
When fantasy becomes reality!
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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You are acting like LtCmdr Data could get hacked (by a chip implanted by his maker/uploaded virus, etc.) and hijack the Enterprise once a season or so. Unpossible. Androids can never be compromised.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Citadel has access to ALL THE WORLD'S DATABASES?
What??????? Ooooooook, so there is NO chance of all our credit, military, intellectual property and other knowledge bases including our personals being misused or otherwise compromised by anyone, especially seeing that the Council tried to clone him and Citadel appears in a variety of villain and hero arcs... Wow. |
Funny, my bank account seems to be empty and I appear to have bought 50,000 huge TVs at Best Buy...
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Agree in part. Positron theorized the city needed a new incarnation of the Phalanx and took it upon himself to engineer one. But hit efforts didn't work, and it was only until the disparate parts came together on their own that it actually happened. And even then, it wasn't until Statesman came around. The fact that Positron the character was such a Statesman fanboy is what started things rolling to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
Positron claiming he formed the Freedom Phalanx in the 80s is lame.
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To call Positron the 'heart' of the Freedom Phalanx? Yeah, that's just plain not true and disrespectful to Statesman, no matter how you view him.
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| Positron, a tech-based character, being the guardian of the flames of Prometheus is lame. |
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| Add to this Positron being a character Matt Miller shoe-horned into the game, and this entire thing smacks of wish fulfilment. |
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| I know from personal experience that the writers in this game do not take criticism well. But please, enough with the vanity characters. The player character should be treated as #1. ESPECIALLY now that we have all these nonsense incarnate powers. |
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/11/16
Even if they did start writing better, that doesn't change the existing characters or address the problem I feel are at the root of this, namely the powers and AT system.
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That's just what Crow and Tom Servo WANT you to do! They are all in it together with Citadel! It's a vast AI conspiracy! |
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Yes. He's a computer, thus he can access any other computer in the world. But don't worry, only data that's relevant to the current plot will ever be compromised. The Council might hack the floorplans for all the banks in town or the codes for a nuclear missile or the mayor's Facebook, but never all at the same time.
Just repeat to yourself "it's just a comic book, I should really just relax". |
As we all know, the dictates of the plot will control, and the most elaborate protections will vanish in a *poof!* if the writer wants them gone.
As has been noted by ZombieMan, one swipe of a Rikti blade and Positron's armor breached and he asploded in the comics, but Matt Miller is talking about how tough Positron is because he is armored. Of course, the particular story in which Posi blowed up real good really ought to have Crow, Tom Servo and Mike commenting on it as it unfolds...
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
I called it from the start
Statesman = Jack Emmert; Extremely arrogant, Acted gawdly
Positron = Matt Miller; Was like a sidekick until Jack left and he took over. Present day: Arrogant, Boosts Positron as gawdly (now that his rival is gone), will make the game soon in Posi's image.
Synapse = Sean; Cool, calm, doesn't really hype up his character.
What can we learn from this? Jack and Matt have (at some time) had a falling out. You can see his enjoyment, the way his eyes light up. He talks as if his character is the pimp daddy over all, he likes the pseudo-empowerment. Especially when he's like '' It's all about the players playing with the Lore characters, like POSITRON! OMFAWG did you see Positron? Oh snap look it's Positron again! Wait, Statesman? Yea, cool. Ahuh-uh. Bye Statesman. LOOK AT MY POSITRON! ''
+1 for misconstrued appearances. The age of Aquarius move over, Tim Tebow take a backseat, it's the Posi-Ride now. Keep all hands and feet away from the radiation at all times plz.
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My new main is an AR/SON space marine that is armored. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Sonic/AR or Ar/Sonic with APP and/or power pools.
Pistols and fast reflexes: Time/DP (or the reverse). Sword and gun: Not so easy, but there are several gun temp powers and plenty of sword sets. . |
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But that also means if anyone tries to do something vastly world-altering like finding out all the heroes' secret identities, then they'll need to leave the computer doing it running for several hours because *mumble mumble*. And if any heroes get to the computer in that time and destroy it, then they'll lose all the data. And they won't be able to incrementally save it to a separate storage either, because *mumble*.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
That's just what Crow and Tom Servo WANT you to do! They are all in it together with Citadel! It's a vast AI conspiracy!
As we all know, the dictates of the plot will control, and the most elaborate protections will vanish in a *poof!* if the writer wants them gone. |
Character index
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Statesman has never gone to 9000.
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
How dare you speak his name in the same breath of goku!
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my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Exactly so! Just in the same way we always know the PRECISE amount of time it will take for the poison to kill you, and if you drink the antidote with 30 seconds to spare, you recover completely and with no residual damage or aftereffects of any kind, since antidotes *mumble mumble*.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
But that also means if anyone tries to do something vastly world-altering like finding out all the heroes' secret identities, then they'll need to leave the computer doing it running for several hours because *mumble mumble*. And if any heroes get to the computer in that time and destroy it, then they'll lose all the data. And they won't be able to incrementally save it to a separate storage either, because *mumble*.
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"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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But he also doesn't need to take half an hour to turn his hair gold and get a little more ripped. All while screaming.
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Originally Posted by Organica
Statesman has never gone to 9000.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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While I realise that those are just the limits of the game, having signature characters that CAN have this really does play with my emotions more often than not.
And the worse of it, Positron knows the system doesn't reasonably allow many popular character concepts and it's something they're unable or unwilling to address. But hey, his armored ranged hero can exist because when you hold the keys to the sandbox, you can do whatever you want. Lucky him.
The signature characters only underscore the limitations the AT system forces on us. In other venues, like PnP games, the signature characters were used as examples of the classes and characters you could make. For a large part, ours do the opposite.
We've got two Tankers who are offensive powerhouses.
We've got an armored Defender.
We had a Blaster turned Defender who used arrows when players couldn't for five issues. And he tougher than both of those ATs combined.
Red side is no better.
A Mastermind who mostly uses melee attacks.
A Corruptor with a SWORD.
The toughest Stalker on the planet.
A Dominator with a ton of debuffs and wicked heals.
And a mostly ranged Brute, who again, is in power armor.
It all comes back to our characters being inferior to the NPCs, and IMO, spending time 'fighting along side' of the Signature characters in a SSA or anywhere else is just a constant reminder.
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