There was a post in Gameplay/Technical Issues & Bugs forum section about it. Someone had gotten a reply from a Senior GM after it had been escalated that this is the correct behavior and any different behavior previously had been a bug. Of course, the post was removed since they posted the response instead of just summarizing it, and that's a violation of the forum rules. I had seen that post so I remember it, even though it's been removed.
Apparently you need to do the entire arc based on what the player was told by Support.
I've not seen an official comment from any rednames as to whether or not the GM was correct, or even if this is the way it is supposed to work.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Ah another one of the thousands of "Known Issues" not listed because in someone's wild imagination it's an exploit that shouldn't be advertised despite being known by just about everyone.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Huh?
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Oh, the devs' Known Issues/Patch Notes practices are just a pet peeve of mine.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Huh?
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They have a very broad definition of "exploit" and a very strict policy of not advertising them. This combination leads to many cases where players see things working a certain way for years, then being changed without a word from the devs. Supposedly - at least according to some red names posts in the past - the Patch Notes should include notice when exploit bugs are fixed, but in practice that seems to rarely happen.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Quote:
The post wasn't deleted because it referred to an exploit, it was deleted because it directly pasted a GM response into a forum post, and that is against the rules.
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Oh, the devs' Known Issues/Patch Notes practices are just a pet peeve of mine.
They have a very broad definition of "exploit" and a very strict policy of not advertising them. This combination leads to many cases where players see things working a certain way for years, then being changed without a word from the devs. Supposedly - at least according to some red names posts in the past - the Patch Notes should include notice when exploit bugs are fixed, but in practice that seems to rarely happen. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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I've always wondered why that is against the rules.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
The post wasn't deleted because it referred to an exploit, it was deleted because it directly pasted a GM response into a forum post, and that is against the rules.
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You would think transparency and accountability would be a good thing.
Consistency as well.
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Yeah like he's gonna believe that just because it's true. |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
The post wasn't deleted because it referred to an exploit, it was deleted because it directly pasted a GM response into a forum post, and that is against the rules.
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Well, that's slightly annoying.
But perhaps they were aware of the lesser-known bug. Not only could you sign up 7 people to join your team for the 30 seconds it took to talk to the Latin student, but apparently you could then drop the mission and reacquire it, so long as you (the mission holder) hadn't entered the Midnight Club and completed the mission yourself. Even if you don't consider the former a bug, the latter certainly was a bug.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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It is against the rules to post a private message for the very reason you see here.|
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
I've always wondered why that isn't against the rules.
You would think transparency and accountability would be a bad thing. Nonconsistency as well. |
I've made three not terribly subtle changes to the original. Everyone can read the original, so my changes can be easily determined, and found out to be an edited quote.
But since the private message was posted, and the Red Name/GM didn't post the message in public, that quoted message may OR MAY NOT be a copy original and correct.
Further, the information between the two parties, being a private conversation, may convey information that was not meant to be publicly disseminated, for whatever reason.
And lastly, any information disseminated here by a Red Name/GM could be taken as 'canon', and a quoted message is a dangerous thing for them to have to own up to, especially if I say
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ficitious Red Name
Normally, we don't talk to you guys about upcoming things, but houtex, you're just that kind of cool person.
Believe it or not, the Big Red Ball is coming in I24, and an Ender's Game style space station to stage battles in. But don't tell anyone, k? -FRN |
/Don't believe everything you read on the intarwebs, and especially non-backed-up quotes.
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devs hate players!!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah like he's gonna believe that just because it's true.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Same reason why in complaints on the forums you are not supposed to name names without permission - maybe it's maybe it's not, but how can the mods/other players tell?
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Originally Posted by houtex
It is against the rules to post a private message for the very reason you see here.
I've made three not terribly subtle changes to the original. Everyone can read the original, so my changes can be easily determined, and found out to be an edited quote. But since the private message was posted, and the Red Name didn't post the message in public, that quoted message may OR MAY NOT be a copy original and correct. Further, the information between the two parties, being a private conversation, may convey information that was not meant to be publicly disseminated, for whatever reason. That is why you cannot do it. I hope this is a lesson to you all, and you learn it well. /Don't believe everything you read on the intarwebs, and especially non-backed-up quotes. |
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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So... no big red ball then? |
Originally Posted by houtex
That is why you cannot do it. I hope this is a lesson to you all, and you learn it well.
/Don't believe everything you read on the intarwebs, and especially non-backed-up quotes. |
I still think it would be awesome.
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"
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What in the world does this have to do with anything I wrote? I couldn't care less about why the post was deleted. Or the post at all, for that matter. I didn't even bother to click the link. I just took TJ's assessment as accurate that it was considered an exploit fix.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
The post wasn't deleted because it referred to an exploit, it was deleted because it directly pasted a GM response into a forum post, and that is against the rules.
|
What I do care about, and what I was complaining about, is that their Patch Notes are woefully incomplete. And that much of that short-coming appears to be due to their policies regarding exploits.
Here... I'll spell it out:
(1) They have a bug that someone decides could be exploited.
(2) They log that as an exploitable bug.
(3) Therefore it doesn't go in the "Known Issues" because they don't advertise exploits. (Of course... very, very little actually does make it into the "Known Issues".)
(4) Time passes. Sometimes years.
(5) Someone fixes the bug. The bug fix doesn't go into the Patch Notes on the Training Room because it is a fix for an exploit and they still don't want to advertise it.
(6) The patch including the fix then goes live with a copy of the TR Patch Notes (often verbatim) that still includes no mention of the change.
Based upon previous dev statements (6) isn't supposed to happen. But because the devs' Patch Note process is so iffy, it happens far more often than not. Unfortunately, whatever methodology the devs have in place for tracking changes to produce patch notes seems to be terribly inadequate. And the exploit policies seem to hit it right where it's the weakest.
As a result of the lack of a Patch Note for this change my teammate ended up reporting the incident as a bug, and apparently at least one other person actually did a petition on it (my friend didn't bother with a petition, as it only takes 15 min or so to get this badge). This sort of failing in the Patch Notes not only results in wasted customer service resources, but can also hurt customer relations when things that appeared to be working as intended for years are abruptly changed with no comment whatsoever.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
I think you're reading way too much into things. A bug was reported, so they fixed it. They don't just leave stuff unfixed if it's not exploitable (okay, sometimes they do, but mostly when it's low priority stuff). The badge was not WAI, now it is WAI.
Not every single issue that is known to the devs is on the (visible to players) Known Issues list because they shouldn't be, the list would be enormous. And not ever single tiny little bug fix makes it into the patch notes either, even if it's not an exploit.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Even if it were an exploit, and thus, bypassing the patch notes; it still goes against the stated principle that they would announce the closing of the exploit after it goes live.
If this was an intended change, then Paragon Studios dropped the ball *again* in the Patch Notes process and violated their own stated operating procedure.
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Quote:
But they'd be consistent with their inconsistency.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Even if it were an exploit, and thus, bypassing the patch notes; it still goes against the stated principle that they would announce the closing of the exploit after it goes live.
If this was an intended change, then Paragon Studios dropped the ball *again* in the Patch Notes process and violated their own stated operating procedure. |
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Don't put words in my mouth please.|
Originally Posted by Kosmos
What in the world does this have to do with anything I wrote? I couldn't care less about why the post was deleted. Or the post at all, for that matter. I didn't even bother to click the link. I just took TJ's assessment as accurate that it was considered an exploit fix.
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I never said it was considered an exploit fix. I never mentioned the word exploit at all.
I used the word bug, which is the word that was in the response the player received from support.
Bug =/= Exploit
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
Why would that be against forum rules? I'd think sharing official info from GMs might be the safest thing one could do on the forums, yet it's actually banned?
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
The post wasn't deleted because it referred to an exploit, it was deleted because it directly pasted a GM response into a forum post, and that is against the rules.
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And, as far as I know, the requirements to get the badge are to have completed the arc. But, also as far as I know, you can also get the badge by just being on the team when someone else 'Talks to the Latin Student.'
Quote:
That has been changed. That's the point of this thread I believe.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
But, also as far as I know, you can also get the badge by just being on the team when someone else 'Talks to the Latin Student.'
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Because it's considered a private conversation, which you are not supposed to share without the other person's permission.|
Originally Posted by Madadh
Why would that be against forum rules? I'd think sharing official info from GMs might be the safest thing one could do on the forums, yet it's actually banned?
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Also because the forum rules that aren't the common sense forum rules that every forum has, are largely pretty stupid.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Also if you fail the mission with assisting Lady Jane only the mission holder is able to move forward with the arc. You have to succeed or continue running the mission over and over until everyone has gone through it. On a full team without an appropriate dedicated protector for Jane you may need to run it eight times. This just happened to a team I was on the other day. We simply couldn't keep her alive with the size of the spawns and buffs available.
I always use 'stealth' techniques for Lady Jane. Leave the idi... um, lady captive, go find the blinky, then clear the path back to her. Optionally, one could clear the whole map. Then defeat the crowd that anchors her and immediately lead her to the goal. Bingo, done, you can leave now.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Well this is will be annoying.
I recently ran Monty's arc to gain Midnight Club access for one of my characters. I was under the impression that everyone on the team got the badge for access just as with the Yin Market badge, yet on a recent run I received the Midnight Squad badge but my teammate did not.
What is the requirement to get this badge? I thought it was level 10+ and in zone in time to get the Lost Savior badge and then the Midnight Squad badge.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)