Shadow Shards for Villains?
By
Aneko,
Posted on: 2011-12-23 05:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It's a Nemesis plot.
Now, to be honest, given how vast the Shard is both in lore and in the actual game, part of me opposes making the Shadow Shard coop just because there's so many other places that could be explored that hasn't been. Like the Garden of Memories of Uuralur the Mirror, the Cube Factories of the What's-His-Name the Slave Master, and so on.
And instead of a regular firebase, whatever organization lets villains into the Shard should TOTALLY have an enormous Airborne Aircraft Carrier, with Lambda sector turrets that fire awesome death beams at approaching swarms of natterlings, wisps, and observers.
Plus, we could have not one, but TWO side exclusive Incarnate content areas, possibly coming to a head with a special PVP zone that discards all semblance of balance and lets players fight with their full incarnate shifts and powers.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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No. No more co-op. However, I'm not opposed to Arachnos trying to take control of the Shadow Shard, causing one of the Shard zones to be taken from heroes and given to villains. Another can be a strictly hero zone, one of the zones could be PvP or something. Have the heroes vs. the villains vs. Rularuu.
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Rularuu devours dimensions - if he gets free, he's not going to consider your moral standing before trying to devour you too |
Originally Posted by Xzero45
No. No more co-op.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm all for something like this. The shard is already four zones, make one hero, one villain, and the other two co-op. Granted, if having the whole thing be co-op is the only way I'm going to get a Shadow Shard revamp then so be it, but I would prefer a more diverse approach.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
No. No more co-op. However, I'm not opposed to Arachnos trying to take control of the Shadow Shard, causing one of the Shard zones to be taken from heroes and given to villains. Another can be a strictly hero zone, one of the zones could be PvP or something. Have the heroes vs. the villains vs. Rularuu.
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From the other recent hot threads I got the strong impression that villains don't want co-op, even if it is to save their own skin. They know blueside will save the day either way so why take time out of their granny-mugging to help them?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Rularuu devours dimensions - if he gets free, he's not going to consider your moral standing before trying to devour you too
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edit: blueside's lost enough already. GC gone. DA is going Incarnate/VIP co-op. Lost and losing various grades of heroes. Losing SS to redsiders that don't want to be there would be a bit much.
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Thing is, all these zones being lost is really just the old unused clutter being cleaned out of Blueside. The only people that used GC were people that didn't want the massive popularity that was AP. DA was rarely used, and many people complained of the fog impeding travel. The Shadow Shard has four zones, only one of which really has anything going on in it. I'm pretty sure no bluesiders would lose sleep losing one or two of the zones if it meant getting actual, legit, fun content there.
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Originally Posted by Ogi
edit: blueside's lost enough already. GC gone. DA is going Incarnate/VIP co-op. Lost and losing various grades of heroes. Losing SS to redsiders that don't want to be there would be a bit much.
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Sure, so the villains fight Rularuu too. That doesn't mean they have to team up with heroes to do it.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Rularuu devours dimensions - if he gets free, he's not going to consider your moral standing before trying to devour you too
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/jarjar HOW WOODE!|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Old reason is old. Troll somewhere else, Golden Gorilla.
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| Thing is, all these zones being lost is really just the old unused clutter being cleaned out of Blueside. The only people that used GC were people that didn't want the massive popularity that was AP. DA was rarely used, and many people complained of the fog impeding travel. The Shadow Shard has four zones, only one of which really has anything going on in it. I'm pretty sure no bluesiders would lose sleep losing one or two of the zones if it meant getting actual, legit, fun content there. |
I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the clouds were only at the bottom of the zone. you wouldn't be able to see spawns from up above, you'd have to fly down into it anyway to see the stuff going on down there, and that just makes it creepier.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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Gee... You can read all of our minds about that? |
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I'm pretty sure no bluesiders would lose sleep losing one or two of the zones if it meant getting actual, legit, fun content there.
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Every one of us?
Really?
All ribbing aside, I can speak for at least one blue-side player who would hate to lose any of the existing Shard zones, even under those circumstances... Me. I'd like it as much as anyone to have some kind of Shard access for my red-siders, but I'd much rather see the place go co-op (or even new zones added-) than to lose any of the current zones for my hero-side characters.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
I'm all for more Co-Op... our characters are loyal only to themselves and their cause... not some horde, alliance, empire, rebellion or whatever.
From what I've seen and experienced... Co-Op content is the most favored content in City.
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I can refute that quite easily -- I know several people who run the Shadow Shard TFs on a regular basis, and would not be happy if some of the shards were taken away.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I'm pretty sure no bluesiders would lose sleep losing one or two of the zones if it meant getting actual, legit, fun content there.
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Setting aside what everyone would want or like, the easiest thing for the Devs to do is to rework the zones so that villains have access to co-op zones, and leave it at that. Anything else might be more cool and more desirable but at that point you're talking about using a lot of developer time on it.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Well I don't mind that being A REASON for Co-op, but I think in the future I'd like villains to be willing to work with heroes for much more personal reasons, here's how I'd see it:|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Rularuu devours dimensions - if he gets free, he's not going to consider your moral standing before trying to devour you too
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Villains: Hey, Rularuu, I'm going to help you/try to mooch your cosmic power from you!
Rularuu: You're small time
And Rularuu pulls some cheap trick to one-shot us or just in general attempt to murder the villains.
Villains: NO U!
And then Villains go off to kick Rularuu's butt.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I would like to see Shadow Shard get the more epic Co-op treatment
But really I would like to see Shadow Shard be divided into more levels. I have no idea what levels it is for, but an outer-space/alternate dimension chain of zones from 10-50 would be awesome.
I keep saying this whenever it comes up...
1) The Shadow Shard should be opened up to villains.
2) There could be at least a single co-op zone.
3) There could also be at least a single PvP zone.
Villains should enter from their own zone, separate from the current hero zones. I really like that idea of the villains entering from a floating carrier with massive turrets on it!
There should be an Incarnate related zone that directly involves Rularuu somehow. Probably co-op.
There should be another zone directly involving Nemesis and his secret base there, whether that's co-op or PvP.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and maybe some of that PvP could also be Incarnate related. As in, you can only enter those zones if you've earned your slots. And your Incarnate shifts will activate while inside the zone.
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I never said get rid of the content. You can easily just move existing TFs to the one hero Shard zone, which would make them more easily accessible anyway. Maybe they could even update the TFs themselves while they're at it so they aren't 12 missions that are all the exact same as the last. That'll definitely interest more players into wanting to actually consider running them.|
Originally Posted by Organica
I can refute that quite easily -- I know several people who run the Shadow Shard TFs on a regular basis, and would not be happy if some of the shards were taken away.
Setting aside what everyone would want or like, the easiest thing for the Devs to do is to rework the zones so that villains have access to co-op zones, and leave it at that. Anything else might be more cool and more desirable but at that point you're talking about using a lot of developer time on it. |
And how would it be any easier that way? They would still have to do the same work to set up entrances and exits, and the current content is geared towards heroes, so they'd have to rework the missions and TFs so that you aren't treated as a hero regardless of your status, both in mission text and alignment. I mean, I guess they could just open the doors and say "Here's your shard, but it's only hero content." but that'd be horribly sloppy and half-*****, considering villains and rogues wouldn't be able to actually play anything, just fight the random spawns.
Best option I can see is move all existing content to one zone, make that the hero base. Have Arachnos occupy another zone, make that the villain HQ. Story could be they're tapping into Rularuu's power. The other two zones could be, like someone mentioned, Incarnate PvP and Co-op where heroes and villains fight back Rularuu himself. Much like it'll be in the new Dark Astoria, there will be choices you can make along the way if you're heroic or villainous so that you aren't railroaded into being the good guy.
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Kind of unnecessary, but okay.|
Originally Posted by Bright
Gee... You can read all of our minds about that?
Every one of us? Really? |
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| All ribbing aside, I can speak for at least one blue-side player who would hate to lose any of the existing Shard zones, even under those circumstances... Me. I'd like it as much as anyone to have some kind of Shard access for my red-siders, but I'd much rather see the place go co-op (or even new zones added-) than to lose any of the current zones for my hero-side characters. |
If it's the scenery, although I do agree it's nice to look at every now and again, you can still wander the zones in mission maps that I'm sure would be made or if one of them is turned into a co-op zone with a new storyline. The zones look relatively the same anyway, though.
Or is it just you don't want blueside to have less? I'm honestly kind of curious what your specific reason is.
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1. Moving the TFs to a different zone is more work than not moving them. (Which was all I was really trying to say.)|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I never said get rid of the content. You can easily just move existing TFs to the one hero Shard zone, which would make them more easily accessible anyway. Maybe they could even update the TFs themselves while they're at it so they aren't 12 missions that are all the exact same as the last. That'll definitely interest more players into wanting to actually consider running them.
And how would it be any easier that way? They would still have to do the same work to set up entrances and exits, and the current content is geared towards heroes, so they'd have to rework the missions and TFs so that you aren't treated as a hero regardless of your status, both in mission text and alignment. I mean, I guess they could just open the doors and say "Here's your shard, but it's only hero content." but that'd be horribly sloppy and half-*****, considering villains and rogues wouldn't be able to actually play anything, just fight the random spawns. Best option I can see is move all existing content to one zone, make that the hero base. Have Arachnos occupy another zone, make that the villain HQ. Story could be they're tapping into Rularuu's power. The other two zones could be, like someone mentioned, Incarnate PvP and Co-op where heroes and villains fight back Rularuu himself. Much like it'll be in the new Dark Astoria, there will be choices you can make along the way if you're heroic or villainous so that you aren't railroaded into being the good guy. |
2. Reworking the TFs in the way you're talking about is more work than not reworking them. (Again, all I was really trying to say.)
3. If they did do what you're talking about... I think they'd have to do something about the explore badges. Because badgers would complain otherwise. So maybe you'd have "shadow of Storm Palace" or something? Meh. But probable if they were to really overhaul the zones like you'd like.
4. Imagining one of those massive shard zones as a PvP zone makes my head asplode... although I suppose it'd make afk farming safer.
5. "12 missions that are all the exact same as the last"? If only! Dr. Q is 22 missions, Sara Moore is 15, Faathim is... like, 19, counting all the monument clicks. (My friend, who is very clearly in a minority here, likes these TFs precisely because he can run a single TF instead of 2 or 3 regular ones in a row, and he doesn't have to form new teams every hour or so. But yeah. 22 missions that are all the same....
The same friend is still kind of sad that they reworked the Positron Task Force, even though he likes the new versions too.... )Ideally, the stuff you're talking about would be pretty nifty. The shadow shards are kind of cool but also kind of big and empty... giving all of them a total revamp and working in villains in a way that makes sense would rock, of course. And since they've finally said that they're reworking Dark Astoria into a co-op zone... something I've thought they should do for 2-3 years but figured they'd never be able to do... well, who knows?
But even if *all* they did was let villains enter the shards... well, that's better than nothing. So few people enter the shards anyway. Or even if they did something simply like clone the shadow shards for V-side only (in the way they did for the monster islands) and did minimal reworking of the TFs to give them a more villainous flavor... if that's even possible... well even that would be better than nothing.
In this day and age when you can travel redside to blueside and back, or start any AT on any side you want, are there that many people who worry about which side has more content or more zones? At least aside from them adding a Strike Force for every Task Force, an evil SSA for every good, that sort of thing? I mean, I know redside could benefit from a couple more strike forces at certain levels... but I don't see any indication that that's ever going to happen. (Adding a new redside SF with no corresponding new blueside SF I mean).
Let me explain... (pause) No, there is too much. Let me sum up:
1. The cooler a rework is, the more work it's going to take.
2. When you take something away, people will be mad. Even if you replace it with something most people think is cooler.
3. PvP in a zone the size of the shard... *head asplode*
4. The Justin Augustine TF is the stupidest, most insipid TF in the game. I know that has no relation to anything I said above, but any time we bring up the shadow shard I feel compelled to point this out.
In fact now that I think of it, villains can have the JA TF. I'm happy to give it up!
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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I stopped reading there. Your attitude makes your other opinions uninteresting.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
Old reason is old. Troll somewhere else, Golden Gorilla.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
The Shard zones are big enough to let villains in, whether co-op or PvP (while PvP in a huge zone might be head exploding worthy, it would be rather interesting). Thing is, if it goes co-op, please have two chains of contacts like Cimerora. I'm tired of missions designed mostly for heroes that villains get to piggy back on (like what seems to be happening with Dark Astoria unfortunately—it'd be most frustrating in the fact that my namesake, as I wrote him, has the same goals as Mot).
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Well is he a servant of Mot or just having the same goals? I have a character with the same goals as Rularuu but he'd still oppose Rularuu because HE wants to be the one to devour everything. (Plus, he thinks he can do it better, so a matter of professional jealousy could be considered, it's like why some players want their villains to be the one who kills statesman and not some NPC)
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Originally Posted by Scythus
The Shard zones are big enough to let villains in, whether co-op or PvP (while PvP in a huge zone might be head exploding worthy, it would be rather interesting). Thing is, if it goes co-op, please have two chains of contacts like Cimerora. I'm tired of missions designed mostly for heroes that villains get to piggy back on (like what seems to be happening with Dark Astoria unfortunately—it'd be most frustrating in the fact that my namesake, as I wrote him, has the same goals as Mot).
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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He serves unnamed gods of the Netherworld which could potentially include Mot.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Well is he a servant of Mot or just having the same goals? I have a character with the same goals as Rularuu but he'd still oppose Rularuu because HE wants to be the one to devour everything. (Plus, he thinks he can do it better, so a matter of professional jealousy could be considered, it's like why some players want their villains to be the one who kills statesman and not some NPC)
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As long as that temple/palace zone is still a blueside-accessible zone and NOT PvP, I'm for anything that makes the zones more useful in general.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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'kay
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Originally Posted by Aneko
I stopped reading there. Your attitude makes your other opinions uninteresting.
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A curious thing happened the other day in firebase zulu. I was in there with a few friends just badge hunting, and as I was leaving I noted the portal that normally goes to the Portal Corps on hero side actually said it would go to Grandville? And I was like Well! Thats a nice change. I wonder why no one mentioned it before. But allas it didnt go to Grandville ( I was on a Rouge naturally) it just zoned back in the Portal Corps building.
But then I got to thinking, Why the heck not? This area would be nice if it was a shared access to firebase zulu, especially given there are so few people that are ever in there. Why not open it up for both sides to do the Task Forces??? Could this be soon in coming?