[SPOILERS] Shadow shard--wait, what?
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-12-10 16:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Spoilers are so awesome, we're putting them right in thread titles now. 
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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I don't really consider that a spoiler... it would be like me saying Battle Maiden comes from Warrior Earth!
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Spoilers are so awesome, we're putting them right in thread titles now.
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For people that have played as long as we have, sure.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
I don't really consider that a spoiler... it would be like me saying Battle Maiden comes from Warrior Earth!
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For that guy that just started and hasn't played those arcs, yet, on the other hand... nicely done.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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That is a myopic perspective. The difference is in the ease with which such information can be reached. Always something to keep in mind. Just because you're familiar with some tidbit of content, that doesn't mean many of the new players are. There are actually people on these forums who think spoilers don't apply to any content that's been out for a while. Instead of maintaining the mysteries of the game for new players, they have an "I don't owe them anything, I can post whatever I want" attitude. Which is unfortunate (and disrespectful), because for every seven-year vet, there are any number of players who are entering the tutorial for the first time today. This is their game too.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
I don't really consider that a spoiler... it would be like me saying Battle Maiden comes from Warrior Earth!
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@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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If that was the case, if I was a new player I'd look at what I just wrote and be like "I have no idea what he is talking about" and forget about it.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
That is a myopic perspective. The difference is in the ease with which such information can be reached. Always something to keep in mind. Just because you're familiar with some tidbit of content, that doesn't mean many of the new players are. There are actually people on these forums who think spoilers don't apply to any content that's been out for a while. Instead of maintaining the mysteries of the game for new players, they have an "I don't owe them anything, I can post whatever I want" attitude. Which is unfortunate, because for every seven-year vet, there are any number of players who are entering the tutorial for the first time today. This is their game too.
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It would be like if I told you the narrator is Tyler Durden. Are you going to remember that?
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My understanding is that the Shard is a part of Rularuu and his prison. Similarly, Nightstar draws her power from an entire dimension known as the Black Shroud. So it's not unprecedented. Now, I'm not sure if the lore regarding the Midnight Squad's involvement in Rularuu's imprisonment predates the Midnighter Club and universities being added, but I'm certain if was well before Maria Jenkins' arc was revamped.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Doing the updated Hero's Hero arc from Maria Jenkins and in one part she says and I quote:
Was this a retcon or was it always like this? |
Other dimensions are funny things.
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Players who come to a game like this for the stories--such as myself and many others I've met in the past two years--DON'T take it as trivial when spoilers are thrown in their faces. Maybe you would, but I want you to think about how many times the letter "I" appeared in your post above.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
If that was the case, if I was a new player I'd look at what I just wrote and be like "I have no idea what he is talking about" and forget about it.
It would be like if I told you the narrator is Tyler Durden. Are you going to remember that? |
I know you don't realize it, but you're basically saying, "I know you don't like oranges, but I do, so have some oranges. I don't see what your problem is, sheesh." Like I said, that is a myopic perspective. Most people can be persuaded to understand this.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
If the content has been around more than a year plus I'd say it's fair game at this point. There's always going to be new players that haven't hit every nook and cranny of the plot yet, I think it's a bit silly to keep everything sacrosanct because of them.
I wasn't aware that this was a spoiler, anyway. I seem to remember it being one of the first things you learn about the Shard, as part of the answer to "what is this place and who is Rularuu".
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I'm not asking to keep spoilers out of the forums. But, thread titles? Really? Really?|
Originally Posted by Agent White
If the content has been around more than a year plus I'd say it's fair game at this point. There's always going to be new players that haven't hit every nook and cranny of the plot yet, I think it's a bit silly to keep everything sacrosanct because of them.
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Wow.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Quote:
Yes, and we all learn about the Shadow Shard at the beginning of the game-- Oh wait. No, we don't.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
I wasn't aware that this was a spoiler, anyway. I seem to remember it being one of the first things you learn about the Shard, as part of the answer to "what is this place and who is Rularuu".
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I'm probably starting an argument I can't win on these forums. I don't know whether that says more about me, or these forums.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
I'm with Captain-Electric, its not much to ask to keep spoliers out of thread titles.
A polite request to a mod will get it changed, if you can't do it yourself.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Right, but for people who don't know what the Shadow Shard and the Midnighters are, nothing is spoiled, and by the time they find out what those things are, they've already learned this information. If "you didn't learn it at the start of the game" makes something a spoiler, there's really NO part of lore we can discuss here, except possibly the destruction of Galaxy City.
Yeah, it's not really a spoiler. In fact I'm pretty sure you can find the information in the history articles of the main website.
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You can easily know who the Midnighters are, while only having a vague idea about the Shadow Shard, because hints are sprinkled throughout some early missions. Enough to make it interesting, but mysterious. And its mystery is part of the intrigue. This seems to be flying over some peoples heads. Analogously, you're saying it's no big deal to blurt out some information from chapter 5 of a book, while I'm still reading chapter 3.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Right, but for people who don't know what the Shadow Shard and the Midnighters are, nothing is spoiled, and by the time they find out what those things are, they've already learned this information. If "you didn't learn it at the start of the game" makes something a spoiler, there's really NO part of lore we can discuss here, except possibly the destruction of Galaxy City.
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I'm not going to attempt to change anyone's mind here. I wouldn't be so foolish. But I guarantee you're going to irritate people by carrying this line of reasoning around with you.
Please keep spoilers out of thread titles. And by spoilers, I mean spoilers to new players.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Quote:
Okay, okay.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Yeah, it's not really a spoiler. In fact I'm pretty sure you can find the information in the history articles of the main website.
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It's frustrating, but pretty obvious that most of you feel differently than me. Which means I'm the one with the problem. I'm more than willing to admit it when I'm wrong, and I apologize for derailing the thread.
No hard feelings (honestly), but I think I'm going to steer clear of the General Discussion forum until I get some more years (and spoilers) under my belt.
P.S. There isn't any history given on the website for the Shadow Shard. I don't mean to overreact, but this isn't the first time I've had this argument in the General Discussion forum. This isn't a spoiler-free forum (in fact they're quite common), and if I have a problem with spoilers, I ought to avoid this forum. (IOW, this is me being rational, not angry.)
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the principle of what you're saying. Spoilers should be prefaced with a warning, not just thrown in a thread title that anyone browsing the forum will see. If Ultimus had titled his thread with any one of the several reveals in the RWZ arcs, for example, I'd be right beside you asking him to change it. But this is more like just discussing that the RWZ is a place where a Rikti mothership crashed. It's not a spoiler, it's the basic premise of the zone.
Anyway, back on topic, I wasn't aware that the Squad created the Shard, I thought it was some pre-existing place that they chucked Rularuu into. Here's what Paragonwiki has:
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So from that quote, it's not clear if they created the prison themselves, or if it was already there.
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Originally Posted by Paragonwiki on Rularuu the Ravager
...In an ironic coup de grace, the Midnight Squad trapped Rularuu in an otherworldly prison called the Shadow Shard, where he’s been stewing ever since...
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Well, I didn't realize that the Midnighters creation of the Shadow Shard was common knowledge, or that it was implied by the premise of the zone. I was frustrated to have part of the mystery of the place unraveled on the forum instead of in the game; but again, I'm getting the impression this isn't an issue for others.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
It's not a spoiler, it's the basic premise of the zone.
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I'm more of a reader than a gamer, and I'll admit that some of my tastes and preferences can probably run idiosyncratic here.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
It is knowledge in no way knowable unless you seek it our or play the arc. It isn't hinted at, discussed, or mentioned in passing elsewhere AFAIK.
Just because someone that may not play that content for months may read this and forget, makes it no less true. I can present a case for the player that may start that content tomorrow at 1:11pm and have just had it spoiled in contrast.
As such, it is, in fact, a spoiler. (As an aside, I think that is proper comma placement, but it offends my sensibilities.)
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Wasn't Rularuu one of the Midnighters to begin with? I vaguely remember reading that some where.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Speaking purely for myself, these tidbits stick with me. I may not remember the precise information, but I will remember that the Shadow Shard is not natural, but was artificially made, and when the plot point comes up, I won't be as impressed.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
If that was the case, if I was a new player I'd look at what I just wrote and be like "I have no idea what he is talking about" and forget about it.
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As for the Shadow Shard being made by the Midnight Squad, this dates back to I12 when the Midnight Club was first introduced. The actual club zone has a scavenger hunt of sorts in it, where you click on various items and they give you background lore, some of it from the Dream Doctor, himself. That the Shadow Shard was created to trap Rularuu is mentioned there for the first time.
Personally, I feel that imagining the Shard as a physical or even metaphysical location within which a god is kept is disappointing. I've always wished they would have gone bigger and made the entire place the physical manifestation of the mind of an elder god. That's actually where "spoilers" come into play. One random Shard mission on the villain side of things makes an offhand comment that "as if you're inside the mind of a god." I don't remember which mission it was, I don't recall what it was referring to or how it was worded, but this idea has stuck in my head since then, and it has informed my mind's eye view of what the Shard is.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The Dream Doctor, one of the founding members of the Midnight Squad, noted Rularuu as his counterpart. But what that means exactly is a mystery.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Wasn't Rularuu one of the Midnighters to begin with? I vaguely remember reading that some where.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Speaking purely for myself, these tidbits stick with me. I may not remember the precise information, but I will remember that the Shadow Shard is not natural, but was artificially made, and when the plot point comes up, I won't be as impressed.
--- As for the Shadow Shard being made by the Midnight Squad, this dates back to I12 when the Midnight Club was first introduced. The actual club zone has a scavenger hunt of sorts in it, where you click on various items and they give you background lore, some of it from the Dream Doctor, himself. That the Shadow Shard was created to trap Rularuu is mentioned there for the first time. Personally, I feel that imagining the Shard as a physical or even metaphysical location within which a god is kept is disappointing. I've always wished they would have gone bigger and made the entire place the physical manifestation of the mind of an elder god. That's actually where "spoilers" come into play. One random Shard mission on the villain side of things makes an offhand comment that "as if you're inside the mind of a god." I don't remember which mission it was, I don't recall what it was referring to or how it was worded, but this idea has stuck in my head since then, and it has informed my mind's eye view of what the Shard is. |
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I'm glad I'm not completely alone here, but I'm beginning to realize that most people don't see it this way. I think a lot of people are just here to mash buttons and punch things (which is fine, it is a game). Our disappointment over a spoiler probably makes no more sense to them than their definition of a spoiler makes to us. This stuff just isn't a big deal to a lot of players.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
It is knowledge in no way knowable unless you seek it our or play the arc. It isn't hinted at, discussed, or mentioned in passing elsewhere AFAIK.
Just because someone that may not play that content for months may read this and forget, makes it no less true. I can present a case for the player that may start that content tomorrow at 1:11pm and have just had it spoiled in contrast. As such, it is, in fact, a spoiler. (As an aside, I think that is proper comma placement, but it offends my sensibilities.) |
The General Discussion forums have been more helpful than frustrating, so it may actually be overreacting to avoid them completely. I just dislike having to accept that I can't persuade people any differently. It's frustrating to see it happen in a thread title, only to learn that the majority of the forum doesn't actually care (I realize that makes it my problem, but it's no less frustrating). I'm realizing that arguing against spoilers on the forums is like arguing against the weather. They're going to happen, it's completely natural around here, so I better just deal with it. On some forums, mods have a stance against them, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. In such a story-heavy game, where the devs put so much thought into "big reveals", this feels irrationally surreal.
The above is mostly whining, I guess. No need to call the whaaaambulance, I have a WhineyComm badge.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
It's not a spoiler, it's the basic premise of the zone.
SPOILER!!!: I wasn't aware that the Squad created the Shard, I thought it was some pre-existing place that they chucked Rularuu into. |
Is it wrong that I find this funny? You don't think the title is a spoiler and yet it indeed spoiled you learning a crucial piece of information about that zone? Should we toss in anymore tidbits about the zone or who is being imprisoned there and their backstory?
I really was intrigued by some of the backstory told about the Shadow Shard, so much so that I even used it as a link to alternate universes *I* created. However, when I actually played *in* the Shadow Shard....meh, I like hearing about the place, not being in it >_>
Doing the updated Hero's Hero arc from Maria Jenkins and in one part she says and I quote: