Shield Defense fixed to be able to use two handed weapons?


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Posted

So if the dev's have said that nothing isn't possible then making a shield defense compatible with every melee powerset is possible it just takes a lot of work and coding. Thanks for proving my point!


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Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
Doesn't change the fact that it still looks bad. Where is my sheath or quiver?
Then you'd just complain the sheath doesn't disappear when you drew your weapon, or that you quiver was always empty or always full of arrows.

It just wouldn't make sense, because you know, you have the weapon in your hand and unsheathed it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
So if the dev's have said that nothing isn't possible then making a shield defense compatible with every melee powerset is possible it just takes a lot of work and coding. Thanks for proving my point!
Yep. And that is time spent doing something else that gets a wider appreciation. Aaaaand we're back to feasibility.


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Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Yep. And that is time spent doing something else that gets a wider appreciation. Aaaaand we're back to feasibility.
Feasibility sucks. They should drop everything they're doing and work on what I want.


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Posted

personally, I would propose simply having the shield costume piece/weapon customization be removed if we selected a two handed weapon.

Admittedly, this would kind of defeat the point of it being SHIELD defense, but at the same time shield defense mechanically provides a unique combination of things no other set really can. Full mez protection coverage, maxHP buff, position defenses with resistances, mini-tier nine without a severe crash, an offensive power, and the list goes on.

And while certain powers could be said to only fit a shield concept, I say to the contrary: Why is my Katana/not!shield samurai using a SHIELD charge? Because the call of an exciting battle draws him forward with such ferocity that the enemies scarcely even see him coming and when he dives into their ranks, they scatter like leaves! Why is he so durable AND dodgey? Because he's a samurai, he wears good armor. Why can use PHALANX Fighting and Grant Cover? He's an experienced warrior and soldier, his greatest strength is functioning with a unit and is able to use his experience in melee combat to guard direct his allies to safety (so, same reason as maneuvers in the flavor text). "yes" some might say "but that still doesn't explain why your katana/shield scrapper does not in fact use a shield." Well it's because the Samurai felt their sword was a shield in of itself. The game even supports that with defensive sweep, divine avalanche, and parry!

And that's just one explanation for a character without shield to have shield defense powers. (And unless you're a HUGE weaboo, a lot of those points can be easily applied to any non-Samurai)

Edit: Though I also understand why NOT to do this. So I can understand the devs reasoning but if they ever wanted to, there is a way to expand.


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Posted

Before you go worrying about paring your Shields with two handed weapons, you need to be worried about finally giving Shields to Stalkers.


 

Posted

What huge two-handed weapons are useable with a shield? A real shield, not a small disk tied to your arm?


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I wanna roll a Stalker that uses Tremor while Hidden in Granite Armor


 

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Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
What huge two-handed weapons are useable with a shield? A real shield, not a small disk tied to your arm?
Real shields and two handed weapons irl, or real shields like the dark elemental available in the game?

Also, since the shield is basically cosmetic, why can't we have the choice to not have the arm shield, and instead opt for something more along the line of a body shield?


 

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Originally Posted by Kierthos View Post
And the oft-requested Assault Rifle Defense and Clown Summoning.
You wont get clown summoning until they get player vehicles in the game. Really how else would you summon a clown!

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Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
A real shield, not a small disk tied to your arm?
Bucklers are shields too!



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Before you go worrying about paring your Shields with two handed weapons, you need to be worried about finally giving Shields to Stalkers.
I wouldn't say I am worried about it, but hopefully it will be proliferated at some point.

I will not argue with you that it doesn't make sense conceptually for a stalker, as shields and stealth do not mix, and when say spartans wanted stealth, they would strip naked.

I won't argue it, because as far as I know, there were not any Spartans that could teleport their ***** into a group like a bolt of lightning. Without being noticed of course.


 

Posted

they need to just make a set of bubble armor, that plays exactly like shields, but allows people to pair up all offense sets.

That's what it really comes down to. It's not that it has to make sense to most people. It's that Shields is a fun set that's also considered awesome.

Really, I don't even think the OP cares about concept (could be wrong), I think it's come down to wanting [Primary that does this] paired with [Shields that do this].


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
So if the dev's have said that nothing isn't possible then making a shield defense compatible with every melee powerset is possible it just takes a lot of work and coding. Thanks for proving my point!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Yep. And that is time spent doing something else that gets a wider appreciation. Aaaaand we're back to feasibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
Feasibility sucks. They should drop everything they're doing and work on what I want.
i already acknowledged that as being Santorican's point, and pointed out that it was unlikely to happen just because he wants it. i then said he still had my full support if he wants to hold his breath until he gets what he wants, and i really do mean it. i support his efforts 100%, which obviously means he wins. i guess.

Although he then follows it up with a troll picture and says he beat me, but i didn't even realize this was a trolling competition. So, sure, i'll concede that he certainly beats me in that arena. Not sure how that exactly counts as a victory since i wasn't even competing, but seize your victories where you can i guess.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
but seize your victories where you can i guess.
Carpe trollum?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
i already acknowledged that as being Santorican's point, and pointed out that it was unlikely to happen just because he wants it. i then said he still had my full support if he wants to hold his breath until he gets what he wants, and i really do mean it. i support his efforts 100%, which obviously means he wins. i guess.

Although he then follows it up with a troll picture and says he beat me, but i didn't even realize this was a trolling competition. So, sure, i'll concede that he certainly beats me in that arena. Not sure how that exactly counts as a victory since i wasn't even competing, but seize your victories where you can i guess.
Inviting someone to hold their breath until "x" implies either of two things. That the invitee is having a tantrum and you are calling them on their immature ultimatum, or you are suggesting they hold their breath until they prematurely expire. Since the op never offered an ultimatum, I assume you are inviting the op to expire. As you are clearly an intelligent individual, I am surprised and amused at your indignation from the ops clear position to rise above your attempt at baiting him.


 

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Originally Posted by ebon3 View Post
You wont get clown summoning until they get player vehicles in the game. Really how else would you summon a clown!
Irrelevant - the Thugs Bruiser rides in on a motorcycle, so the clowns can come in on their own car without a need for player vehicles.


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it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
The devs also said that power sets could never be colored, or different animations for powers were not possible or different skeletons were nigh impossible to make. Yeah...
You are incorrect. They said those things would take too much work (IE, time/people from other things) to implement. At the time, they were correct.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Yep. And that is time spent doing something else that gets a wider appreciation. Aaaaand we're back to feasibility.
Yeah some how the one of the top 5 melee secondaries isn't widely appreciated. Hardly anyone uses shield defense right?


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Yep. And that is time spent doing something else that gets a wider appreciation. Aaaaand we're back to feasibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
i already acknowledged that as being Santorican's point, and pointed out that it was unlikely to happen just because he wants it. i then said he still had my full support if he wants to hold his breath until he gets what he wants, and i really do mean it. i support his efforts 100%, which obviously means he wins. i guess.

Although he then follows it up with a troll picture and says he beat me, but i didn't even realize this was a trolling competition. So, sure, i'll concede that he certainly beats me in that arena. Not sure how that exactly counts as a victory since i wasn't even competing, but seize your victories where you can i guess.
Because you don't have a valid argument to use. Its the same BS it looks stupid argument that everyone and their mother uses. If you can come up with some OBJECTIVE argument for why two handed weapon shield melee character shouldn't happen I'm all eyes. Because otherwise all I see is the same old horse argument being beaten to death.


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Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbird View Post
You are incorrect. They said those things would take too much work (IE, time/people from other things) to implement. At the time, they were correct.
So you're saying it could happen now that they have more people and resources?


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge View Post
Inviting someone to hold their breath until "x" implies either of two things. That the invitee is having a tantrum and you are calling them on their immature ultimatum, or you are suggesting they hold their breath until they prematurely expire. Since the op never offered an ultimatum, I assume you are inviting the op to expire. As you are clearly an intelligent individual, I am surprised and amused at your indignation from the ops clear position to rise above your attempt at baiting him.
Expire? You mean, pass out? When they start breathing again?


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Posted


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebon3 View Post
Bucklers are shields too!
Sometime you'll see small shields attached near the forearm or elbow so they can be worn while wielding a weapon two-handed.

These are much less useful than either the old-style center-grip "punch blocking" bucklers (which require a free hand) or the classical "Argive grip" Hoplite-style shield (which requires a free arm and hand). I guess they're more useful than nothing, but only by a little, and the idea of making a shield charge with such a trinket is ludicrous.

Aside from huge, cumbersome pavise-type shields you can hide behind (which also preclude using a two-handed weapon), most shields derive their usefulness from being mobile. The user is able to move the shield at will during combat to block. This, of necessity, involves using an arm independently of the weapon arm.

Bucklers are traditionally held in the fist and used to meet a blow before it has gathered momentum (the aforementioned "punch-blocking" style.) You can strap one onto your arm and ignore it, but it will provide insignificant benefits compared to a mobile shield.


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----------------------------------------------------------

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
Because you don't have a valid argument to use. Its the same BS it looks stupid argument that everyone and their mother uses. If you can come up with some OBJECTIVE argument for why two handed weapon shield melee character shouldn't happen I'm all eyes. Because otherwise all I see is the same old horse argument being beaten to death.
The problem you may run into, is that if the Devs think 'it looks stupid' it won't matter if you think that argument is invalid. The Devs aren't objective when it comes to aesthetic choices, and they get to make the decisions whether we like them or not.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound