Single most beautiful thing mankind has ever created.
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-12-06 05:17 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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No, definitely sandwiches.|
Originally Posted by MikeRobe
He didn't mention women... *ducks*
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Also:
Bam.
...
Bam.
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SLICE-SHRED-MAIM-POUND-SLASH-DESTROY-MUTILATE-OHTHEHUMANITY
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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I agree completely. The Lightning and the A-10 are my two favorite military aircraft. I don't know why, but to me they seem much cooler than something like a Spitfire or F-22.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
p38-lightnings are so much cooler looking than a spitfire
I know spitfires were good planes, but they are pretty dull to look at |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Explain what exactly is a Stalker set? Using sword? Being hidden? |
Originally Posted by Starflier
Yeah, Titan Weapons is great so far. It absolutely wrecks face.
But it may be the most un-Stalkery feeling set I've played. |
If TW ever got ported, the set would have Assassin Strike and Placate as well which I guess by your definition will be "stalkerish"?
Oh wait, how "Brutish" it is to have Kanata Ninja sword on Brute and have stealth in dark armor?
You can't have it both ways. If you want to enforce theme restriction, then you gotta restrict other melee ATs too. Restrictions should not just be enforced on one AT.
The only difference is that Brute players have a chance to choose Ninja Blade and Stalker players don't even have that chance. Titan Weapon doesn't fit your theme on your stalker? Then don't pick it. Nobody is forcing you but don't deny me the chance to play Titan Weapon on my stalker. I have a perfect theme for him! Let players choose what themes they want. We don't need the dev to choose for us.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Dual Blades is so Brutish
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Originally Posted by MikeRobe
I agree. I like stalkers, but the devs made the right call here. TW does not feel stalkery at all.
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A-10, sure. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I agree completely. The Lightning and the A-10 are my two favorite military aircraft. I don't know why, but to me they seem much cooler than something like a Spitfire or F-22.
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P-38... eh.
The FW-190, now... or *looks to left at forum name* the ME-262 - though I've become more fond of the HE-162 from that era.
More recently, the F-5 just "looks right." (And the F-15, for all its capability, is downright boring to look at.)
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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And you're right here too. DB is supposed to be finesse set and aught not to have been ported to Brutes.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Dual Blades is so Brutish
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Amusingly, the A-10's proper designation is Lightning II, not Warthog... it's just that f-ugly-utiful. Agreed though, P-38 is my Favorite of the Propeller Warbirds, and it's a tough call between the A-10 and the F-14 for Jet Birds.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I agree completely. The Lightning and the A-10 are my two favorite military aircraft. I don't know why, but to me they seem much cooler than something like a Spitfire or F-22.
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Originally Posted by MikeRobe
I agree. I like stalkers, but the devs made the right call here. TW does not feel stalkery at all.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Dual Blades is so Brutish
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To the OP, I agree that the set is fantastic... but until it gets proliferated to Stalkers, I'll not be buying it. I'm not encouraging arbitrary restrictions for non-sensical conceptual reasons. I avoid Virtue and insanely restrictive RP for a reason.
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http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Whatever. I'm just voicing my opinion. You don't have to buy it (my opinion or the set) but you can go try it (the set) on Beta and argue for it feeling stalkery to you. Edit: If you do, please point out what is stalkery to you about it. I'm happy to change my opinion if someone else can point out what is "stalker" about it and back any petition to the Devs to have it ported. But for now, my view is they made the right choice.
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Originally Posted by MikeRobe
I don't feel it is the size that is the problem with the stalker feel (if they were available). It is a combination of the momentum builder attacks and the "omg keep hitting before momentum wears off".
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Just to present some other ideas, I'd like to disagree with this. To me this is very stalker-ish. Imagine, say, a Harley Quinn type character who has a big mallet but very low defenses. She depends on catching a enemy by surprise and overwhelming them with a flurry of blows before they can respond.
I can see what folks are saying, that in some ways TW doesn't fit the concept of a stalker. But I can also see that some players would like to play such a character, so I don't see a reason to not port TW to stalkers, as at least some folks would play them.
My 2 Inf.
My life as regards City of Heroes is complete. I love Titan Weapons so much. I have never played another set where I felt comfortable, nay, wanted to jump into the biggest throng of mooks I could find right at the very low levels. I've built characters able to handle +8 spawns with proper IOs at level 50, but this is the first one where I've felt comfortable tackling more than +0 even before getting DOs.
The sloooooowWHAMWHAMWHAM pacing feels natural and powerful. It turns some folks off, but it just works for me. Even taking on a hard target is awesome. The animations flow into each other, and it's the first set I've personally seen where you can get a chain as early as the first three attacks. Defensive->Titan->Crushing->Defensive is graceful and completely destructive.
Possibly the funniest thing about the set is a quirk of the enemy AI where they will not instantly engage you, but will watch you until either you've loitered near them for several seconds or actually hit them. More than once I've started the Momentum-building attack, winding up for a major hit, while the target just stands there and watches curiously. Then the first hit lands and it's a world of freaking pain.
It definitely doesn't match my idea of what a Stalker is, but that doesn't really matter. Given the extent to which powersets have been proliferated, theme is clearly less of an issue these days, and it was poor form to give it to 3 of 4 melee sets. That's just red-headed stepchild territory there. Stalkers need some love, and Titan Weapons is love. Let the players decide what restrictions their concepts dictate.
The only thing I can think of that would give Stalkers an actual mechanic imbalance, which is the only justifiable reason to restrict a powerset (like Ice for Brutes back in the day), is that attacking from Stealth negates the disadvantage of the slowness of the initial attack. But they still have that disadvantage midfight if they can't drop the spawn in 5 seconds, and Energy Aura Brutes (and anyone who takes the Concealment pool) can attack from Stealth just fine.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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That's the problem. I DO want to buy it but I only play Stalkers. :P I hate Brutes because it seems everything is cartered to their needs. Whenever a new set is ported to them, it gets immediate attention. Look at how many times they changed Energy Aura just because it didn't fit Mr. Popular Brute's style. I can name 10 things that they should change for Stalker's needs too but they are rarely looked at.|
Originally Posted by MikeRobe
Whatever. I'm just voicing my opinion. You don't have to buy it
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And I can't stand Heroes. Scrapper is too common and I hate tanking.
I just want to whack people with a giant roadsign from hidden.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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While I can see your point from the RP concept (like DB on Brutes), I played the set on beta at 50 on a TW/Regen Brute and it felt very tailored to the Stalker playstyle: use AS (which would likely give you momentum if it were ported) - unleash a ton of burst damage and then keep scrapping it out just like any decent Stalker does after DOs/SOs, especiallly after level 30 when you can one shot only an orange lieut tops (and not all the time) with BU+AS due to mob scaling hp. Plus the hit and run playstyle was mostly a PVP thing and very inefficient in PvE, even before the i12 Stalker changes I was usually in scrapper mode with my first Stalker, EM/Nin. AS actually barely needs recharge slotting because you won't use it everytime it's up unlike other big hitters that are part of an attack chain (that may change in i22 tho).|
Originally Posted by MikeRobe
Whatever. I'm just voicing my opinion. You don't have to buy it (my opinion or the set) but you can go try it (the set) on Beta and argue for it feeling stalkery to you. Edit: If you do, please point out what is stalkery to you about it. I'm happy to change my opinion if someone else can point out what is "stalker" about it and back any petition to the Devs to have it ported. But for now, my view is they made the right choice.
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But well I disagree that it shouldn't be ported to Stalkers because I have one that goes BOOM in the middle of a mob, damaging everyone around severely and knocking them down, remains hidden and can use AS or Thunderstrike with critical later (Elec/EA). I won't even say anything about glowing like a Xmas tree (Elec Armor) because somebody will say that /ELA is justified because you bend electrons or something like that to Hide like I saw before in the forums lol.
The OPs opening remarks even sounds like he's describing an Assassin Strike to me.
Iron Crane - Inv/SS Tanker (Champion)
Fox Die - EM/Nin Stalker (Infinity)
Azure Hunter - Arc/Ene Blaster (Infinity)
@tyxavier
"Consider the unparalleled advantage, of a natural disaster thats impossible to manage."
Funny thing is I'm not a role-player in game (been years since the days of the table-top rpgs too). Of all my alts, I only have 2 that I've actually thought about background and how'd they get their powers. My opinion is based entirely on the feel of the set and "does this make sense for x?" Role-players can build any number of justifications for their characters (I'd like a sonic-blast/super reflexes scrapper 'cause I have this great idea for a Dune style scrapper....)
I'd not be sad to see the devs port it (more like ambivalent). I'd not argue against it being ported either. I just think that the right decision was made in not porting it. *shrug*
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ME-262 is a longtime fav of mine.|
Originally Posted by Stormbird
A-10, sure.
P-38... eh. The FW-190, now... or *looks to left at forum name* the ME-262 - though I've become more fond of the HE-162 from that era. More recently, the F-5 just "looks right." (And the F-15, for all its capability, is downright boring to look at.) |
A-10 looks ok, but its coolness factor is a 10x multiplier because of GUNS.
Personal favorite though, F-4U Corsair. Something about those curved wings. Whistling Death.
Heres a neat vid!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxb-V-rZqA
Liberty server
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3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
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Arc #'s
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I love the general appearance of some of the weapons (I'm not a fan of Final Fantasy type "Buster Swords", but that's ok, I don't have a problem with others using them), but I really hate the dreadfully long windup of the powers which is only there to make the "Momentum" gimmick useful... especially on my tier 1 quick attack. I'd happily trade away the AOE side of that to get a "normal" animation time on it. I haven't come closer to getting my #$% handed to me by an even level lowbie minion group than I have with this set without going afk for a bathroom break. Heck, even then most of my other melee guys are more effective...
I want the big double handed weapon, I love the numerous 120 degree cone AOEs... I just don't want to feel like nodding off or maybe changing the channel while my toon emulates a Dragonball powerup episode in order to trigger an attack with a 4 second recharge. 
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
http://xx-starhammer-xx.deviantart.com/
Thing is, even though the T1 has a 4 second recharge, Momentum lasts 5 seconds. So even at level 1 you're able to make use of it. It just feels super slow because you've got:
Slow attack->wait 4 seconds->fast attack->wait 4 seconds->slow attack.
But that wait is generally true of any set at low levels, it's just that with this set all the animation time is frontloaded.
And once you get a few attacks and start chaining things together, you realize that first slow windup only accounts for a small portion of your attack chain, and the rest of it is stupidly fast. Momentum may be a gimmick, but it's a gimmick that dramatically changes the pacing of your attacks in an interesting and IMO fun way.
Personally I've never felt tougher on any other set, not even Super Strength.
But of course, YMMV.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Yeah but you see, since you also don't agree with some ports (like you said you also think DB is not very fitting for Brutes), I say let them have it.|
Originally Posted by MikeRobe
Funny thing is I'm not a role-player in game (been years since the days of the table-top rpgs too). Of all my alts, I only have 2 that I've actually thought about background and how'd they get their powers. My opinion is based entirely on the feel of the set and "does this make sense for x?" Role-players can build any number of justifications for their characters (I'd like a sonic-blast/super reflexes scrapper 'cause I have this great idea for a Dune style scrapper....)
I'd not be sad to see the devs port it (more like ambivalent). I'd not argue against it being ported either. I just think that the right decision was made in not porting it. *shrug* |
Plus, TW is just perfect for the Stalker playstyle, I thought this the moment I was done beta testing the TPN trial and had time to solo with my level bumped TW/Regen brute, when I got a better grasp of the set's mechanics. The AS-tons of fast burst attacks in sequence would fit a Stalker perfectly.
It'd be an easy port, get rid of the middle tier cone, replace with AS, replace taunt with Placate and done.
And well, if you're talking about non 'stalkery' weapons, Stalkers got broadsword, which makes meatier noises than TW btw. Also, Brutes recently got the most elegant weapon set (imo), Katana. So why stop? You can play whatever you want, and even though I find DB highly not Brutish, I was never bothered to team with a DB Brute. Same way I have fun telenuking and staying hidden in my elm stalker no matter how little sense that makes (after all Lightning Rod is as subtle as a Blaster nuke).
I plan to wait on getting TW because I have too many alts and have been a bit burned out, but if I could make a TW Stalker I'd probably have bought the set impulsively because I like the AT a lot.
Speaking of beatiful things, click brawl when your titan weapon is out and targeted a mob.
LOOOOOOVE that!
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Oh please dont start this again there are plenty of ninjas in comics who used big weapons. I remember an episode of Naruto where they faught against a ninja with a giant sword. So dont give me that isnt stalkery crap. The devs made a horrible decision with this. Its dumb to not give it to them for 2 reasons. One its a slap in the face to the playerbase that supports them that plays stalkers and two its dumb from a business perspective. With the introduction of a market you want to give players every incentive to want to buy a powerset. Not being for stalkers means I will not be buying this until stalkers get it. Not because I dont want the set but more so as a matter of principal in hopes that they never make a stupid mistake like this ever again.
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Originally Posted by MikeRobe
I agree. I like stalkers, but the devs made the right call here. TW does not feel stalkery at all.
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
You know what's odd though? If it WAS given to stalkers, they could probably use the same animation Rend Armor uses without momentum for the obligatory Assassin's Smash. And yes it would be called that. 
Of course then you'd have to take out the best ST attack in the set to not have two attacks with the same animation, which would suck.
Actually, you know why Stalkers don't get it now that I think about it? Titan has 4 AoEs. Even taking one out for AS leaves it with three. And clearly no stalker is allowed that much AoE. It's not to do with concept at all! 
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P-38 Lightning is probably my all-time favorite for looks and maybe for effectiveness if used right. Watch the Dogfights episode with Robin Olds, for example.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
p38-lightnings are so much cooler looking than a spitfire
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But despite the coolness factor, I think the Spit was "prettier" in an aesthetic sense.
Bonus fact: When I was very young, P-38s occasionally flew overhead when we lived near Hanscom Field in Massachusetts.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Frankly, I don't care. I expressed my opinion based on the feel of the set in game. You're welcome to your opinion. I hope I'm entitled to have one that may differ from yours.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Oh please dont start this again there are plenty of ninjas in comics who used big weapons.
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mmmmk... so my stalker light (tw/ea scrapper) has *completely* changed my point of view on the whole stalker thing. I was wrong up-thread and once you have enough attacks to actually be able to keep swinging and hide of course (energy cloak being the stand-in) it does have a similar "in control" feel as my stalkers in a fight.
Rend Armour even looks like an AS. Put me firmly in the "proliferate it nao" camp.
I don't feel it is the size that is the problem with the stalker feel (if they were available). It is a combination of the momentum builder attacks and the "omg keep hitting before momentum wears off". The momentum builder attacks all have a feeling of advertising that I'm gonna clobber you really really hard here. Stalkers (to me) are more about clobbering someone really really hard but not advertising the fact first. I do scrap it out after my initial from hide attack is done with my stalkers, but they always seem in control of the fight. TW feels like the big block on the end of the stick is in control of the fight
I know there're lots of people who play stalkers that don't care about that kind of thing and they just want the new stuff too and they're happy to meta-play any set that performs well. I would love to see them get their own exclusive attack set but I kind of doubt we'll see that. In fact, I kind of doubt they'll be able to keep /nin as their unique set for much longer.