Will Burnout help alleviate Unstoppable's crash?
By
DarkSideLeague,
Posted on: 2011-11-28 16:58 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Wouldn't be be just as easy to eat a number of purple/orange inspirations in anticipation of the crash?|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Is the following possible?
Hit Unstoppable, then hit Burnout. Then, a few seconds before Unstoppable crashes, hit Unstoppable again. |
Surely you can get/combine some in a shorter period of time than Burnout recharges?
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| Is it possible to hit Unstoppable for the second time before the effects of the first one wear off? |
IIRC, Unstoppable remains grayed out as long as an Unstoppable is in effect, regardless of recharge on it.
Or something like that. The point is, it didn't work if I remember right.
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You can use Burnout to effectively increase Unstoppable's duration to 6 minutes, but it won't do anything to alleviate the crash.
I would assume you would still get the crash from the first Unstoppable since it is technically a set of effects that trigger when you click the power but have a 180 second delay rather than something actually triggered by the power wearing off. Using Burnout to hit Unstoppable again right before the crash should leave you at 10% health and no endurance but with Unstoppable's resists and recovery boost active. If you slot Unstoppable to cap your resists with no toggles going it should make the crash much more survivable, especially on a tank (10% health + 90% resists is still reasonably sturdy).
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Quote:
...You do realise 3 minutes later you'll get another crash, right? And that Burnout can only be up every 6 minutes, making it impossible to chain them together? So really, while one is more survivable, the second is the same as always.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
I would assume you would still get the crash from the first Unstoppable since it is technically a set of effects that trigger when you click the power but have a 180 second delay rather than something actually triggered by the power wearing off. Using Burnout to hit Unstoppable again right before the crash should leave you at 10% health and no endurance but with Unstoppable's resists and recovery boost active. If you slot Unstoppable to cap your resists with no toggles going it should make the crash much more survivable, especially on a tank (10% health + 90% resists is still reasonably sturdy).
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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The first Unstoppable won't crash you if you use Burnout to activate Unstoppable again before it's 180 seconds is up.
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Well yes, but the question was whether you could get a double-length Unstoppable, not whether you could perma-Unstoppable or avoid any crash at all. And my guess (I don't have a character with Unstoppable and Burnout) is that you can mitigate the first crash (but not the second) by keeping the resists and recovery but not prevent it entirely.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
...You do realise 3 minutes later you'll get another crash, right? And that Burnout can only be up every 6 minutes, making it impossible to chain them together? So really, while one is more survivable, the second is the same as always.
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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Many powers that have the delayed crash effects are set to not stack with self, meaning that when you use the power again a new copy of the delay effect replaces the first one.
The defense debuff in Rage works this way as well for example.
I've not tested which parts of Unstoppable are flagged to not stack with self, but only effects flagged that way will be mitigated AFAIK.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
I use this method to get 5 mins and 59 secs of overload on my elec armor. Unfortunately I'm at work or I would test unstoppable. Im guessing it should work since it works for most t9s I've tried.
I tried this with my EA brute with Overload. It does not stack, and you do get the crash, even if you use it before the crash.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
OK, since Johnny's post and DreadShinobi's first post were contradicted by DreadShinobi's second post, I used my second build to test this:
Surprisingly, the second Unstoppable DOES prevent the HP/End crash of the first Unstoppable.
What I expected to happen was to still get the HP/End crash, but to be able to keep the 70% Resistance and the +100% Recovery.
So, if you time it right, you can get 5 mins and 59 seconds of 70% Resistance to all but Psi.
Edit:
OK, apparently, the +70% Resistances do NOT stack. In fact, when I clicked Unstoppable for the second time, all my resistances briefly dropped to base, then jumped back up.
On this build, I've got 10% Res to everything but Psi as a base, with Unstoppable, they all jump to 80%. When I clicked Unstoppable the second time, they all dropped back to 10% for about a second, then jumped back up to 80%.
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
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I didn't contradict my own post. Burnout doubles Unstoppables duration, but no matter what you do you're going to eat the crash eventually.
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Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
OK, since Johnny's post and DreadShinobi's first post were contradicted by DreadShinobi's second post, I used my second build to test this:
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Electric Armor gets Overload now? >.>|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
I use this method to get 5 mins and 59 secs of overload on my elec armor. Unfortunately I'm at work or I would test unstoppable. Im guessing it should work since it works for most t9s I've tried.
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Every part of Power Surge is flagged to not stack from the same caster, including the crash. This is also true for Unstoppable. In Energy Aura, Overload has almost every part set to not stack, except for the -100% endurance crash (the -recovery is set to not stack though). That's why you don't avoid it with Energy Aura but it can be avoided with Invuln and Electric Armor.
It's exactly as has been explained about Rage - since it's set to not stack with itself (Rage's -defense is set that way, the rest of the crash isn't which is why it pops up regardless) you replace the old instance with the new. This causes a brief drop while it's replaced - probably only for the duration of the animation, if that; it could simply be a real numbers glitch due to it being down for maybe one server tick - and then the crash is also replaced because it's set to not stack as well.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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City of Data is your friend. |
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Many powers that have the delayed crash effects are set to not stack with self, meaning that when you use the power again a new copy of the delay effect replaces the first one.
The defense debuff in Rage works this way as well for example. I've not tested which parts of Unstoppable are flagged to not stack with self, but only effects flagged that way will be mitigated AFAIK. |
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Interesting... I'm surprised that a HP or endurance loss counts as "stacking" in that sense. I would have assumed that only parts of a crash that are directly offset by the power itself (like a recovery debuff crash on a tier 9 that gave +recovery) would be avoided entirely. Good to know, since a 6 minute Unstoppable is a lot less likely to wear off in the middle of a tough (iTrial or +4) AV / GM fight than a 3 minute Unstoppable.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
Electric Armor gets Overload now? >.>
Every part of Power Surge is flagged to not stack from the same caster, including the crash. This is also true for Unstoppable. In Energy Aura, Overload has almost every part set to not stack, except for the -100% endurance crash (the -recovery is set to not stack though). That's why you don't avoid it with Energy Aura but it can be avoided with Invuln and Electric Armor. |
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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Well, yeah eventually you have to eat the crash.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I didn't contradict my own post. Burnout doubles Unstoppables duration, but no matter what you do you're going to eat the crash eventually.
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Some ideas though, I'm thinking more for Powersurge:
1) Pop powersurge
2) Pop Burnout immediately after powersurge, this sets the rech timer and allows powersurge's recovery bonus to eat the end cost of Burnout.
3) Pop ageless for the massive +rech
4) Load primary with +FF Procs and AoEs (Hi Titan Weapons!)
You have to eat the crash eventually, but I wonder how long it might be possible to keep this going.
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You forgot to cycle in Force of Nature/Geas at some point in your +recharge orgy there.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Well, yeah eventually you have to eat the crash.
Some ideas though, I'm thinking more for Powersurge: 1) Pop powersurge 2) Pop Burnout immediately after powersurge, this sets the rech timer and allows powersurge's recovery bonus to eat the end cost of Burnout. 3) Pop ageless for the massive +rech 4) Load primary with +FF Procs and AoEs (Hi Titan Weapons!) You have to eat the crash eventually, but I wonder how long it might be possible to keep this going. |
Global: @Kelig
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Good point, actually afterwards I realize that you can actually cast another ageless in there.|
Originally Posted by joebartender
You forgot to cycle in Force of Nature/Geas at some point in your +recharge orgy there.
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2x ageless might actually be enough to help bring Burnout's rech down under 6 mins.
...+recharge orgy
The recharge cap is 400%,wich cuts recharge time to 1/5 of the normal.Thus,you cannot get burnout to recharge faster than 6 minutes.
Still,this is a mighty combo,double duration unstoppable and power surge are almost too good to be true. This has given me interesting ideas for my tanker builds...as weel as painful ones since i'll have to rethink it all again.
..........or the devs will take notice of it and nerf it all. i'm expecting this too
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Originally Posted by Nitrogen_Star
The recharge cap is 400%,wich cuts recharge time to 1/5 of the normal.Thus,you cannot get burnout to recharge faster than 6 minutes.
Still,this is a mighty combo,double duration unstoppable and power surge are almost too good to be true. This has given me interesting ideas for my tanker builds...as weel as painful ones since i'll have to rethink it all again. ..........or the devs will take notice of it and nerf it all. i'm expecting this too |
Why do you crush my dreams with your math?
I use it for double gang war/chrono shift. It works very very very well.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
mmmmm interesting will have to test this with my Scraps Elude.
Talos Maltalomar lvl 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter - Triumph Server
Arack BloodThrall lvl 50 BS/SR Scrapper - Triumph Server
Rose's Kiss Lvl 50 Mind/Nrg/Ice PermaDom - Triumph Server
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Elude's endurance crash isn't flagged to not stack, so it will be in the same boat as Overload - you'll have the endurance crash but not the -recovery.
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Originally Posted by Talos_Maltalomar
mmmmm interesting will have to test this with my Scraps Elude.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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nice but not really worried about it. was wondering if i could get it to last longer for the longer fights. as i tend to only use it for the bigger fights when i get mobbed, soloing 4/6.
without elude:
88.62% Ranged
82.97% Melee
90.49% AOE
with Elude:
156.88% Ranged
151.23% Melee
158.75% AOE
i know its a little overkill in def but he tends to tank.
Talos Maltalomar lvl 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter - Triumph Server
Arack BloodThrall lvl 50 BS/SR Scrapper - Triumph Server
Rose's Kiss Lvl 50 Mind/Nrg/Ice PermaDom - Triumph Server
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That's beyond overkill in def. There is no situation in the game where that helps you more than having about 69% def would. Which you have without Elude. You don't need Elude at all and can lower your non-Elude numbers some.|
Originally Posted by Talos_Maltalomar
nice but not really worried about it. was wondering if i could get it to last longer for the longer fights. as i tend to only use it for the bigger fights when i get mobbed, soloing 4/6.
without elude: 88.62% Ranged 82.97% Melee 90.49% AOE with Elude: 156.88% Ranged 151.23% Melee 158.75% AOE i know its a little overkill in def but he tends to tank. |
Back to the more general question of alleviating Unstoppable's crash it's much more effective to just take Hibernate or Shadow Meld and use that right before the crash if you are a Scrapper. If not, then use EotM or inspirations.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Is the following possible?
Hit Unstoppable, then hit Burnout. Then, a few seconds before Unstoppable crashes, hit Unstoppable again.
Is it possible to hit Unstoppable for the second time before the effects of the first one wear off?
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy