Tier-1 secondary mandatory - why?

Have the devs ever offered a rationale as to WHY we're forced to take the tier-1 secondary power? As opposed to, say, making the tier-1 and tier-2 powers available at level 1, like the primary? I would love to be able to skip things like Web Grenade and Entangling Arrow if I could. Thanks.

The current setup forces one to take at least one offensive, damaging power at level one. And has the restrictions on power selection the same across all ATs.

I know that all ATs are set up to have to take the tier-1 power in the secondary power set. What I'd like to know is why it's required.

And the OP's question is actually why force a T1 attack instead of allowing a T1 or T2 attack. Every tanker/defender T1 and T2 are both damaging attacks, so allowing such wouldn't break the "rule". (And Bruising could be applied to T1 and T2 for tanker's new inherent, it could still not stack with any other application.)

To the OP: No, they've never said why, other than it gives a less lopsided progression.

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Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Thank you, Aggelakis. I just don't see why they decided to lock Devices blasters, for instance, into Web Grenade, when they could have allowed us to skip it and immediately take the far-more-useful Caltrops. I'm making an Archery/Trick-Arrow corrupter, and I wish I could bypass Entangling Arrow in favor of Flash Arrow. It's kind of like they thought, "If we don't force them to take Web Grenade, then no one will." It's a puzzlement.

It's like I said - it makes the progression even across all ATs in that all have to take the tier 1.

Also, if you notice, the tier 1 in a secondary is always something you can use solo. Originally Sonic had the first shield as the tier 1 and the debuff as Tier 2, but it penalized controllers, forcing them to take something they cannot use solo.

Plus, web grenade is actually pretty decent, -Recharge, -Fly, etc.

1) It keeps it even across all ATs and power sets.

2) Required Damaging Ability

3) Part of Having a Primary set and a Secondary set is that you have just that, and not 2 equal primary sets. Your Primary is supposed to be stronger than your secondary in addition to it progressing faster. Part of it progressing faster means having more options at level 1 (and all the way up to tier 9 you will be unlocking primary powers faster than secondary powers)

Bah all false reasoning.

The Tutorial alone makes you level 2 by what killing a couple of weakened shiva with help from other npc's.

We all have a tier 1 attack its called brawl.
We all have a second attack its that crappy temp range power.
The Vast Majority have a 3rd, 4th, and/or 5th attack from vet rewards.

Level 1 lasts a whole 5 minutes after that the player is stuck with the power forever.


Choice is always good. You may think its bad not taking a tier one attack/power but hey if the player doesn't want one then so be it.

Worse case they hate thier choice. Go to trainer save costume. Reroll the toon. Its level 1 or 2 what did you loose?

Why Choice is better.
Tanker - A great improvement in attack. Most low level tanks have few attacks as they are building thier defense.
Corruptor/Mastermind - Just for theme. (I'm "orginally" an evil bad guy watch me show you how evil I am by healing you with this aura. See cross me again and I'll heal that wound again."
Anyone who wants to take say Radiation as a debuff only set.

Again. Choice is better than no choice even if 98% choose the same thing.

We all seen MM Thugs that had no pets because someone wanted duel pistols before the set was made. I've even seen petless demons because they want whip only. Is it a major self gimp yes but so what? If the game allows a major choice gimp then a little choice gimp at level one shouldn't even be worried about.

Theme, Roleplay, 2nd tier better, or just because the power sucks are all valid reasons not to take the tier one power. Forcing a player to do it the "right" way is bad.

Notice this forcing the player to play one way is the root problem in all the major everyday fights. (Farmer vs non farmer, PvP vs. PvE, Role player vs. Min Max or AE farmer vs Storyteller)

Yes, let's open the door to people rolling stalkers and saying "Why does this character suck so bad? My Assassin's Strike is a crappy attack, not the awesome attack I see other stalkers with" ...because they skipped Hide. Stalkers have it bad enough as it is without leading people to believe they are actually worse than that.

It's your secondary powerset. That means you don't have as much freedom in low level choice as you do with your primary.

And your Mastermind argument is a load as well. Why would a mastermind not want to heal the guys doing his fighting for him? If his goons die, HE starts taking the hits. Healing your minions so they can keep getting their butt kicked instead of you is a perfectly villainous outlook.

I don't particularly have an opinion on this either. Yeah, there are some real lemons in that spot sometimes, but hey, if nothing else, it's a power I can just delete from my tray and not waste any slots on. Since the introduction of inherent Fitness, slots are at a much greater premium than powers anyway. That said, a bit of devil's advocacy:

Regarding the "must take an offensive power" argument...I am truly and honestly trying to think of a situation where the tier-1 of a secondary is an attack power and the tier-2 isn't. I can see why ensuring that every character can attack is important, but not any situations where this particular argument applies.

Regarding the "Stalkers need to take Hide" argument...does that mean, too, that Domination should also be placed in the first tier for all Assault sets, for example? Or rather, does it mean that Hide should exist as an inherent power?

The stalker not taking hide is so lame.

1) If the player is that stupid not to take hide on an AT that attacks from stealth then so be it. You can't fix stupid.

2) If its a roookie mistake guess what they learned something and can reroll or respec or second build to fix it.

3) Again a gimped stalker isn't any more a problem than the self gimped MM.

4) Why do you care if someone playing a stalker without hide? Again going with the you aren't playing the right way.

But right now your whole argument is we have to take the first tier second power because we have dumb people playing stalkers, seems like a weak argument.

And giving you the benifit of the doubt that a master mind would want to heal his creatures. Not true for role players. If I raise the dead go ahead and kill it I'll bring it back. Its a robot somehow I can heal it and people too..

Guess what you are saying is choice is bad because people will choose badly. Its the secondary so why should you get a choice at level one.

Well expand that why should you get a choice at all? By not giving players choice the Devs could easily balance the game powersets. And more people will be closer to playing the right way.