Archetype Specific IO's?

True, but by that logic, controllers (and Dominators) should get a Set bonus that just buffs Confuse, because they would be the logical choice over other ATs. But, this just doesn't make sense for a AT specific IO Set, and more than the Heal does for defenders.

I will agree that the heal bonus is not best for defenders. I am pretty sure I had been saying that all along for an AT specific set this was the case, and it seemed to me as if you were disagreeing on that point. Glad to hear that at least on that point we were in agreement.

I would agree if you were and we were both talking about regular IO sets that aren't AT specific. I would disagree with the analogy being valid if your level 50 is slotting Executioner's Contract and you are comparing that to an AT IO set as we'd be talking about different things. I would disagree totally if you are talking about AT Specific IO Sets.

I see your point here, and fail to see how it's relevant. Not that I'm blaming you for that, I'll admit, that I think I was trying to quote you from somewhere else, but now I have no clue where. I'll just give you the nod on that one, and wonder why I brought it up, as it doesn't really bear on the topic at hand.



You may very well be right on this front. It will help, some, at least, until fury is built, but it is a very paltry bonus for a set that gains MUCH more from Fury than from +Damage bonuses. However, even if Brutes DO have it worse, that doesn't in any way change that the fact that a +Heal for a Defender AT Specific IO Set is a lousy bonus in this instance.

I also didn't see you actually answer the direct question I asked...

Very first word of my reply.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

That would actually be more useful to EVERY defender than a +heal bonus... now really think about that...

I know that was just a throw away remark but come on..everyone running around defence capped? When at best, people are SOFT capped, since the 'cap' would be impossible solo. Using this an an argument as to why a bonus IS good for a set, makes no sense at all.

Since the defense hardcap is both incredibly difficult to reach AND irrelevant in most situations, 'defense capped' almost always refers to the softcap. Your objection is as silly as it would be for me to rebuke you for talking about "defence" when the in-game stat is clearly labeled as "defense": you aren't even incorrect unless I deliberately misinterpret you (in this case, as a typo rather than a regional difference).

Now, if you had just objected to the actual content of the statement, because a great many characters are NOT softcapped...

Edit: Personally I look forward to the new IO sets, because I really missed the frequent misunderstandings over how PPM (Proc Per Minute) mechanics work from other MMOs.

Ah, sorry, yes, I misread that. I thought that negation was you negating what you thought I was implying, not a negative reply to my actual query.

If you weren't planning on using the set specifically for that bonus and if you agree that it's not that good a bonus for all defenders
and it isn't purely self interest that motivates you, then I'm at a loss as to understand why you seem to dead set against changing it to something else, assuming that something else would be balanced and applicable to all defenders.

If, instead of being purely contrary, you could explain what your actual objection is, maybe a change could be found that would both satisfy players of all defender powersets and you.

Im not saying that I want it to stay the same or that I think the +heal bonus was a good idea. The 2 main things I am trying to say I guess would be more easily put as this.

1-The devs want to add in a heal bonus.
This isn't necessarily a good idea, but devs wil do what they want, and if they were to put on any AT, defenders make more sense than MM/troller/corr getting the heal bonus, since it is a primary/secondary power that is usually getting the bonus. Devs have a history of making bad choices, and I think in the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty small error on their part. Which leads me to..

2- I feel like people are overreacting to how much of an issue the bonus is.
Yes, it will only beefit a fraction of the players using the defender AT. But that doesn't mean it makes the set as a whole completely useless or anything. Let's look at the other AT bonuses. Most of them, in all honesty, are not that great. Most of the sets have either a moderately large defense component to them and/or a very large recharge bonus attached to them. The defender one IIRC has the recharge one at the end for I think 8.75% or 8.25%. Based on bonuses most people go for on their builds, it is a rather safe assumption that the majority of the playerbase who gets the AT IOs will do so either for the recharge or the defense bonuses, and consider the other bonuses as just an extra benefit. For example, I can't see any blasters pruposely standing back an extra 3 feet for the +range bonuses, or any controllers jumping for joy because their char went from a 32 second hold to a 33 second hold. The same way I don't see anyone caring about about a heal doing 212 instead of 200. The amount of distress being shown over this heal bonus just seems too disproportional to how big a deal it really is. So you only get a use out of 4 bonuses instead of 5. Who cares?

Yes, that's why I suggested it. The above-quoted point was made several times in the other thread.

If the objection here really is in principle -- if you really don't care how useful the bonus is as long as it can technically apply to everyone -- then Immobilize Resistance is a fair replacement. If, on the other hand, the objection is that the heal bonus isn't practically and noticeably useful to all Defenders, the issue becomes much stickier; most non-DEF, non-Recharge bonuses in every AT-specific IO set become fair game to question.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Howdy,

The difference here is that controllers all have 3 or 4+ aspects that benefit from the shotgun approach to control bonuses.

Defenders have 0 (de)buffs in common. And 1 set has precisely 1 enhanceable (de)buff, while others would have most of them.

The problem is that now you're getting into standard-code-rant territory. In principle, sure -- if it's easy for the devs to give the Defender IO set a small enhancement bonus to all/most buff/debuff powers (as they did for all/most control types for Controllers and Dominators), then there's no good reason Defenders shouldn't have that comprehensive bonus instead.

But AFAIK, some of the bonuses you'd need aren't in any IO set, and we have no way of knowing how easy or hard it would be to incorporate them into this one particular IO set. And since we're discussing an absolutely miniscule bonus to begin with -- the kind of throwaway bonus that CoH players shrug and accept every day in the pursuit of better, attendant bonuses -- I'm not sure it's reasonable to ask for an unprecedented replacement.

For all I know the heal proc that comes with the Defender set will be far better than anything other ATs get. Or worse. Who knows? Certainly, I think it's fair to say that a heal proc is more useful to builds that don't have heals. That's worth considering for those who feel like they've been left out in the cold by the small bonus to heal strength in the set.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

The problem is this only really helps one additional powerset (Force Field). It provides a little bit of benefit to some other sets in the form of increased slows (although probably not enough to be noticeable) but the sets that would get the most benefit in terms of increased defense buffs or to hit buffs/debuffs are ones that already have heals so don't really need more benefit from the set. Sonic still gets no bonuses while Cold Domination and Traps both get no real benefit since their powers are unaffected by power boost either due to having a resistance buff or due to being pseudo-pets.

I like the MM one. It's got a good 4-slot recharge bonus (where most sets get similar recharge bonuses for 5-slots) and adding 10% AoE defense to my pets is a pretty nice perk.

It'll be a bit annoying if it only goes in pet powers (due to the limitations on how IOs work there) but if I can slot it in my personal attacks it's a nice option.

Well as far as I know, there is no mechanic to give +res to your resistance powers due to the way they are coded into the game. And I thought that power boost would buff cold's sheilds, and traps would have increased defense from it as well, since it is always on, unlike powerboost, which only affects it for the duration.

I never even considered that it would be slottable in a personal attack. That would be a great deal better enhancement-wise, as the enhancement values that were given so far would be terrible for slotting a pet power, but I was really hoping for something unique out of the proc.

10% AoE defense really doesn't seem that useful. I'd much rather see something like 15% resist BG mode damage. Really anything that's not available somewhere else.

The problem is that damage buff and resistance buff buff (that's not a typo I mean buffing a reisstance buff) are the same thing. So a global resistance bonus is indeed not possible.

In the case of Cold since the shields have an enhanceable resistance component they have to be set not to benefit from global bonuses and as such do not benefit from powerboost. In the case of Traps set bonuses do not get passed to pets at all.

I know EATs get them, the SoA sets are called "Dominion of Arachnos", but you listed that the lesser set can be slotted multiple times... is this true? Both the lesser and superior sets list all of the IOs as being unique.

Personally I hope the lesser can be slotted multiple times, that will open up a lot of opportunities regarding slotting on my builds (since I could drop the LotG recharge IOs and free up 3-4 slots by replacing with the 8.75 recharge of these sets).

Regardless, I'm excited.

Yeah, I saw that too. If they aren't unique, I can see a lot of really high performance builds in the future, depending on how easily obtainable these enhancements are. If they end up as rare as PvP IOs, I'm going to be upset.

I think it's almost impossible to hate claymore.

But every defender has a power that benefits from +healing. No really, every one.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

I more expect them to be items in the store than something you have to obtain in-game.

Health doesn't count.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

They all have access to Aid Self and Aid Other to make use of that +Heal

Really, I don't see the problem with it. Out of 12 sets, only 3 (FF, Sonic, TA) can't make use of the bonus.

Not to mention, I have plenty of melee builds that can't make use of the S/L Defense bonus, and the Melee Defense is half that, making it worthless. Maybe not as worthless as the +Heal for sets with a heal, but worthless is worthless.