Archetype Specific IO's?

If people need to be brain damaged to think what you're saying makes sense you may want to re-think things.

Everyone has health, you may not think it's good or optimal but no matter what, every defender with the set, no matter what powers they select or powersets they select.

Like health.

Now I guess if the problem is, that it's not as usefull as you believe it should be, then whatever.

Either way, I'd take a set that had one bonus out of six I couldn't use (not saying the defender one has such a bonus, just making pretending time), an interesting proc, and enhancement values that made sense for the type of power it's intended for over one with two good bonuses out of six, a more of the same proc, and enhancement values that are counter to the type of power it's intended for.

As much as I agree that the set is fine as is, this is wrong. A +heal set bonus does not affect regen powers. They will affect powers that heal. You can see this by slotting some +heal bonuses in Heal Other, then checking health's regen. Unfortunately, it's mostly heal other type powers that get the bonus, because many self heals come with other affects such as +toxic res, and therefore are flagged to not receive buffs outside of enhancements.

No, actually, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, +heal set bonuses do NOT boost health. +heal set bonuses only work on healing powers, as in, the kind that make green numbers appear over someone's head. They do absolutely nothing for regeneration powers like Health.

Really, I guess it could be rounding error, I thought health was giving me .17%HPS on my MM, counting it's 5% healing bonus. Otherwise I would have expected it to show the .16ish%. Actually I'm suprised it only shows two decimal places.

And I'm very curious as to how the bonus is categorized as regen powers often accept healing enhancement.

Anyway, my point was that the defender set is still a good deal better than the MM set and, even if the heal doesn't affect every powerset combination, quite competitive with the other AT sets. It's not something to get up in arms about.

However if the bonus not effecting every powerset combination is so offensive, then by all means change it to a 7.5% movement bonus, so we can move on and find out why they made recharge a primary enhancement value for a Pet damage set, why the premium set has lesser defense bonuses than comprable uncomon sets, why it has toxic resist on an AT that can only stack from one of four powers (one a crashing Godmode, another a dull pain) and why there's more of the same in the "Unique" proc instead of something new.

I should point out that Health does not benefit from +Heal bonuses of the sort IOs have given in the past. Perhaps this one is special, but absent a reason to think it is, I wouldn't count on it.

Edit: Double scooped.

They already figured out a way. They did it with the controller set.

Well unless you want them to change the game mechanics so that Aim boosts your resistance, sonic defenders will not get any kind of bonus in that manner. Or increase intangibility duration...or knockback...

Again, what people seem to be failing to get time after time is that there is a fundemental difference between very little practical benefit, and ZERO possible effect at all.

The s/l defense helps quite a bit until you are softcapped, then it helps a lot less, but still some vs high acc enemies, or debuffers, which, even SR isn't completely immune to (practically, but not totally). And, since it's s/l, if we are talking about SR, it can be of help to any non-positional, but s/l typed attacks, as SR usual has pretty small typed defenses.

And as for s/l res to an invul, helps a fixed percentage up to when the invul hits the hard cap, which will be eaiser to do with this set, and, if I recall, it needs some help above and beyond just the sets base powers to do anyhow (granted, tough usually gets ya there easy). But, even then, after hitting the hard cap, it helps still whenever resistance debuffing comes into play.

So you still are comparing things of little, but none the less measurable value, against something that has no intrinsic value at all.


Now, if you say that the no value is close enough to zero value, and thus don't personally care that 1 AT and only one AT got handed a set bonus that has zero possible value for some power-sets of that AT, that's a fair position to take, but to continue to disregard the key fundemental difference that Kyriani brought up and has an issue with is just starting to make seem as if people aren't even reading the thread at all, are perhaps delusional, or aren't even intending to discuss in good faith.

All of is true. But, if the AT specific sets are only available for purchase, and not earnable, then by far the best and most efficient way to stack recharge will be to pull out the credit card, especially if these are slottable in any attack type power. 8.25% recharge is higher than any other set provides, excepting purples. And you can't slot 3 single target attacks with purple sets (unless 2 of them have stun or sleep as a secondary, and you're willing to have an attack that does base damage). You might very well be able to do this with AT IOs.

But, perhaps they will be earnable. Perhaps there will be a way to avoid stacking this bonuses based on slotting restrictions. Perhaps this will be the only real advantage to buying over earning in game to ever come out in this game ever. Is so, then my concerns will be laid to rest, and you're right, it won't be a 'pay-to-win' scenario.

But, what I said originally was, I'm most concerned with that potentially happening. And I don't think it's plausible to deny that it looks like that could become the case depending on how things go. Thus I don't think my concern unfounded.

This is the fundamental difference of opinion. If you'd stick to this, then while there still probably won't be a consensus reached, at least the levels of frustration in this topic would be greatly reduced.



But then you follow with this, which basically shows that you don't seem to get the point Kyr is trying to make. Numina's wasn't made specifically for blasters. So, it's a perfectly fine set for healing powers. If it was a +heal in say, PBAoE, I might be a bit more critical. And if it was a +heal in a blaster AT set, I'd be a lot more pissed off (assuming I ever played a blaster, but even though I don't, I'd agree in principal that it was a horrible choice for a blaster AT set).

Yes, as you're looking for IOs to get bonuses you specifically want (like ranged) you end up with a lot of bonuses you don't care about. If you tend to look at the AT IOs as just another IO to add to your pool to comb through, then I can see your point of view. In that case it's no big deal that it has a heal in one spot, if the other spots have good stuff. If you look at AT IOs as something a bit different, since it was tailored to your specific AT, it's also reasonable to expect that you not have a bonus that can't possibly do anything for your power sets.

Both points of view are valid, depending on what you think the AT sets are. If all the AT sets had a set bonus or two that wasn't applicable to some power sets in the AT for which they were crafted, that would be very strong evidence that the AT Set IOs were not intended to be viewed any different from any other IO then. In this case, Kyr would be plainly wrong. But this isn't the case. Defenders are unique in this as far as I recall from what I've seen of the AT IOs. So, that being the case, he's got reasonable case for believing as he does as to how the Devs intended the nature of the AT IOs. The Devs probably will never address it, so that being said, both points of view are valid, and neither can be proven. If your agreement is on the nature of the AT IOs, you'll just have to agree to disagree. But, if you agree that the AT IOs are in some way different from other AT IOs, then you can't really disagree with Kyr's position logically, by comparing other sets. If you disagree with Kyr's position as to the nature of the AT specific IOs, then really, that's all you need to say. Going any further just muddies your point.

Personally, I'd love a 7.5% move bonus. But, I don't anticipate taking or using any AT specific IOs unless they are in game earnable, which I suspect won't be the case.