Several things I like in Stalker:
1. Rare. Yup, I am a weirdo that I enjoy using AT/Class that are less popular. This is actually my #1 reason why I make so many Stalkers. I want to prove a point to my other friends that Stalker is really "not that bad".
2. Critical. I love seeing critical! Even if the raw damage is less than Scrapper, I still enjoy seeing Critical. I just love seeing that big Orange "CRITICAL". The more, the merrier.
Other than these two reasons, I don't find my Stalkers particularly good at soloing. I think Stalker's ability to solo is a bit over-rated. Stalker is only good at "choosing his battles". Other ATs like Brute can do missions that are set to higher # of mobs (which gives them more fury) and I find my SoA/MM solos way better than Stalker. My Fortunata is nearly unkillable when I solo. I don't do +4x8 because it just takes too long and her damage is not that high.
I think it's fun to play an under-rated Class and try to make the best out of him/her. That's just me.
PS: To OP, if your goal is to invest a lot of time/sets in a "godly" character, then Stalker is not a good choice. Bane is better. Stalker just doesn't have that potential. There are not set combinations that give Stalker that edge. We don't have /shield, super strength, kinetic, radiation... Stalker is pretty much balanced and limited.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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The only thing you describe as being stalker gameplay that a scrapper can't do and do better is the controlled crits.|
Originally Posted by Errant
o_O? Unsure your implication, but here goes...
My Scrappers (Kat/Regen, MA/Inv, BS/Will, Kin/EA, Spines/FA) jump into a mob and go bloodthirsty, double tapping attacks and then follow to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. There's little conscious thought or tactics with them, just maybe adjustments to leverage defenses/AoE's and then giggling over the carnage. My Stalkers are much more active. Each spawn gets a quick glance to determine if I'm AS'ing or opening with an AoE/Heavy-hitter. I'm looking for trouble mobs, adjusting my position, timing Placate+Attacks/AoE/AS to control the battlefield and kill/defeat without overkill and/or gain an advantage. I think when playing my Stalkers. Oh, and I still giggle over an AS or Shockwave getting 10 Crits. My Stalkers scrap, but they are much more disciplined about it. My Scrappers edge closer towards Bruting, if anything, they just don't have a Fury bar to chase. |
However, Since scrappers have superior self buffing ontop of a superior base damage, they generally do burst damage as well or better than a stalker.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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I am confused... what was the point of this---\/?|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
The only thing you describe as being stalker gameplay that a scrapper can't do and do better is the controlled crits.
However, Since scrappers have superior self buffing ontop of a superior base damage, they generally do burst damage as well or better than a stalker. |
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Please enlighten the class on how to play a stalker.
This should be very educational. |
*is confused as to Test_Rat's point*
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http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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I dunno what was the point of that?| Then, I learned to play Stalkers as STALKERS, and am MUCH happier. |
I thought you perhaps had some epiphany or some breakthrough where you learned a new way of playing City of Heroes.
One that didn't involve hitting stuff with your powers till they died. Because Scrappers Brutes and Tankers do that better.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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1. You get hide right out of the box...|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
Why play a stalker? What is so great about a stalker that make you want to play it? The low hit points, the less effective secondaries (Compared to scrappers), the relatively low damage out of stealth....
What am I missing? |
2. Your power sets are different due to having an assassin strike and placate and hide power in the mix.
3. Right now...no other archtype has ninja armor.
4. You are special becasue not many people play stalkers.
5. You can take recall friend at level 4 and become everyone's favorite team member.
6. you can wear halloween toggle costume powers with hide on.
7. 5 words...Chuck Norris would play One.
8. Its a challenge
9. Stalker?...I thought this was Tank or Brute Class?
and Numer 10....the reason people play stalkers....
10. Because Players accidently pressed the Stalker selection button.
Ok seriously....the reason...i play a stalker...is because Stalkers dont fit into the archtype categories....they are a class unto themselves...they can play how they choose to....the ability to hide gives them a freedom to choose how they want to handle the situation.....and their powers placate and assassin strike are different enough to allow them to alter any encounter outcome to a more favorable position.
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Nah, was more just trying to emphasize that I couldn't pigeon-hole them into the same mindless playstyle I'd been doing with a Scrapper. Couldn't Toggle Up, Press "F", ???, Receive Bacon.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I dunno what was the point of that?
I thought you perhaps had some epiphany or some breakthrough where you learned a new way of playing City of Heroes. One that didn't involve hitting stuff with your powers till they died. Because Scrappers Brutes and Tankers do that better. |
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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So do controlers, defenders, blasters, corrupters, etc.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I dunno what was the point of that?
I thought you perhaps had some epiphany or some breakthrough where you learned a new way of playing City of Heroes. One that didn't involve hitting stuff with your powers till they died. Because Scrappers Brutes and Tankers do that better. |
There is only one way to play City of Heroes: you hit stuff with your powers until it dies. Or you hit allies with your powers while they hit stuff with their powers until it dies, but except for the proverbial empath with aid self, even these idiots usually have 1 attack to hit things with.
Scrappers brutes and tanks do better AoE. Scrappers and brutes usually do more single target. Only stalkers can placate. and that is a dang fun power.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Don't mind him, Test_Rat is just bitter. He means well.
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Originally Posted by Errant
I am confused... what was the point of this---\/?
|
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
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I think this pretty much sums it up for me. Scrappers/brutes are all 'toggles up, charge in, hit random buttons 'till stuff is dead'. If you like that playstyle, then you'll probably like scrappers better than stalkers.|
Originally Posted by Errant
Nah, was more just trying to emphasize that I couldn't pigeon-hole them into the same mindless playstyle I'd been doing with a Scrapper. Couldn't Toggle Up, Press "F", ???, Receive Bacon.
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I don't like that. I find stalkers more interesting to play.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
I'm more of a support player. My stalker doesn't get as much play time as it use too, but when I do play it I have a blast. Its kind of like walking up behind someone who has no idea that they're about to get the crap blown out of them. Then walk away as if nothing happened. I think I might start playing mine a bit more. Mine is Em/Nin. Even though I like support ATs more, my stalker was fed the best IOs infamy can buy.
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
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I stand firmly with the "because I like them crowd." I enjoy the playstyle. I find them to be by far the most fun AT to solo, and one of the easiest. I find that I also greatly enjoy my Claws/Nin on teams and in trials, although I seem to prefer to solo my BS/EA. Too early to tell how my Elec/Ice will shape up in terms of teaming; she's new and has only solo'd so far. I also enjoy brutes and I love my tank, but I find scrappers a bit dull. That's just me. Of course, you've already discounted the "because I like them" answer as a cop-out, so frankly, I'm a little curious as to what you hope to get from this thread. If you're looking for numbers or mechanics that show the stalker to be functionally superior to the other melee ATs, I suspect you already know you're not going to get them. If you enjoy the playstyle, play a stalker. If you don't, play something else and more power to you.
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Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
I been poking around with an Elec/Nin stalker and I like the idea of it, but I'm not certain that this is the sort of character that I can make a big investment in as far as time and influence simply, because it seems like anything a stalker can do another AT can typically do better.
Why play a stalker? What is so great about a stalker that make you want to play it? The low hit points, the less effective secondaries (Compared to scrappers), the relatively low damage out of stealth.... What am I missing? |
I actually find Scrappers a bit dull to tell the truth. Since I can create heroic Brutes I don't think I've touched a Scrapper in ages. (I prefer Brutes as I can control how much Fury I generate, crits are just annoyingly random). Stalkers have all kinds of toys for picking and choosing their fights. Yes I know Scrappers can get IOs and Invisibility but it's not really the same. And Placate is just fun for making them put down their guns only for me to punch them in the face.
I was in a team with my SJ/Dark Stalker yesterday and I was reminded of one of the other reasons I like them: making mobs 'disappear'. It was a mid 20s group and we had a Warshade with us. For the first few missions, I giggled over team chatter that went like this:
WS: Void!
*Sound of a spine breaking Assassin's Strike*
Me: Where?
And they got used to it. Sky Raider Engineers, Tsoo Sorcerors, they just vanished before they could cause any trouble. I like to have a vital role in a team, to contribute something no-one else can be it buffing, debuffing, tanking etc... With CoX, anyone can bash a bad guy in the face but being able to select your enemy and eliminate them before they can get a shot off is just golden and left me smiling like a loon. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
ok, so it's all superficial for the most part.
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No, but then "superficial" is a matter of opinion.|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
ok, so it's all superficial for the most part.
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If your concern is absolute min/max performance then you won't be playing a Stalker. Then again, there are quite a lot of brute and scrapper powerset combos you won't be playing either. I'm sure there are plenty of DPS charts and what-not for Scrappers, for example, that will direct you to "the best" powerset so that you can ignore all others as "superficial".
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If I was concerned with the best, I'd not have posted in the stalker forum to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Zem
No, but then "superficial" is a matter of opinion.
If your concern is absolute min/max performance then you won't be playing a Stalker. Then again, there are quite a lot of brute and scrapper powerset combos you won't be playing either. I'm sure there are plenty of DPS charts and what-not for Scrappers, for example, that will direct you to "the best" powerset so that you can ignore all others as "superficial". |
As for the rest. Context. You can choose to be snarky if you like.
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You wouldn't be playing Scrappers or Brutes either. You'd be playing Doms and Controllers.|
Originally Posted by Zem
No, but then "superficial" is a matter of opinion.
If your concern is absolute min/max performance then you won't be playing a Stalker. Then again, there are quite a lot of brute and scrapper powerset combos you won't be playing either. |
I still say I like the controlled calculating manner of Stalkers in a lot of situations. Mind you, I can't say Stalkers are my favorite AT, but I definitely have more Stalkers than any other melee AT.
There's something about knowing what your powers can do, gauging the foe and then executing a series of actions to dispatch a target quickly that I enjoy vs allowing more variables to mess with that outcome.
For instance, I've got a Kin/EA stalker and a KM/Elec scrapper. One past-time of that stalker is to hoard lots of reds, pop them all at once + BU and one-shot a bunch of minions then follow up with placate > concentrated strike on the Lt or Boss. He can do that with a degree of certainty that the scrapper cannot. The reason I like the scrapper is another reason, namely using Power Siphon to buff up the damage aura and watch the numbers getting bigger and melting the enemies around me.
Maybe it's because I'm not focused on a particular type of playstyle in the game, but I don't value high AoE burst or AoE DPS over ST burst or ST DPS or herding or farming or AV killing or any of that jazz. If a character can do some things well to very well, that's all that really matters. And Stalkers have particularly low variable controllable on-demand burst capabilities that cannot be captured by other melees. That's why I like them and play them. And I like Tankers and Brutes and Scrappers too.
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You're the one who asked why play a Stalker if some other AT does it better? Well, why play one build of Scrapper when some other build of Scrapper does it better? How does this not lead to "the best"? If you consider aesthetic and concept reasons to be superficial but yet you're not after the best possible performance then what ARE you after? Because if you're asking if a Stalker can participate in and contribute to the success of a team then the answer is yes, of course they can! But if you're concerned that they can only do so 5% less effectively than a comparable Scrapper then I have to say I'm not convinced you AREN'T after the min/max best performance, otherwise why care about a slight performance difference? Because honestly, it IS pretty slight (and often overstated tremendously on the forums).
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Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
If I was concerned with the best, I'd not have posted in the stalker forum to begin with.
As for the rest. Context. You can choose to be snarky if you like. |
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I have a prrrefect duel blades/regen stalker that I sometimes rarely but do farm with a troller for the holds to kill faster. ._.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
Stalkers:
Primary: /KM /Elec Secondary: /Ninjitsu /Ice /Energy For anything else, roll a Scrapper or Brute. |
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
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I like how you're trying to tell me what I was thinking. You're not doing a very good job at getting it right though. I'm clearly not bothered that you aren't convinced.|
Originally Posted by Zem
You're the one who asked why play a Stalker if some other AT does it better? Well, why play one build of Scrapper when some other build of Scrapper does it better? How does this not lead to "the best"? If you consider aesthetic and concept reasons to be superficial but yet you're not after the best possible performance then what ARE you after? Because if you're asking if a Stalker can participate in and contribute to the success of a team then the answer is yes, of course they can! But if you're concerned that they can only do so 5% less effectively than a comparable Scrapper then I have to say I'm not convinced you AREN'T after the min/max best performance, otherwise why care about a slight performance difference? Because honestly, it IS pretty slight (and often overstated tremendously on the forums).
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Frankly, I've let you disturb the thread enough. I noticed that the only posts you had in this thread was, because you didn't like something I said. Not that you had anything to contribute to the thread itself. If you have issues as to why I'm asking the question. Oh well. If for some reason you don't like the thread. Please ignore it.
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Zem doesn't seem to be trying to tell you what you're thinking. What Zem is doing, is taking in what you have said, and processing it, and telling you how he interpreted it. There's no need to be verbally assertive towards others for doing this. Just re read your own posts, and think if you left something out in them or wrote them assuming other people would interpret them in some other way than what Zem has, because I agree with that interpretation. It does seem like you are looking for a "best" stalker, or some sort of super stalker that surpases all other stalker combinations.
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Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
I like how you're trying to tell me what I was thinking. You're not doing a very good job at getting it right though. I'm clearly not bothered that you aren't convinced.
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I didn't feel it was necessary to explain myself any further.|
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Zem doesn't seem to be trying to tell you what you're thinking. What Zem is doing, is taking in what you have said, and processing it, and telling you how he interpreted it. There's no need to be verbally assertive towards others for doing this. Just re read your own posts, and think if you left something out in them or wrote them assuming other people would interpret them in some other way than what Zem has, because I agree with that interpretation. It does seem like you are looking for a "best" stalker, or some sort of super stalker that surpases all other stalker combinations.
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However, I cannot care less about the combinations. I didn't ask what people thought about the sets. I'll play what I want to play.
I asked the question, because I'm looking to see if I'll care to play a stalker any further than I already have. Pretty much all the answers have amounted to intangible evidence as to why one should be a stalker. It all comes down to a "feeling" which is a superficial reason to play an AT.
I have played many characters recently that I simply haven't enjoyed and have rerolled them at different level ranging from as early as 10 to as late as the mid 40's. I'm not interested in wasting anymore of my limited play time. So, I ask questions like this one. Unfortunately answers that boil down to "because I like it" doesn't give me an idea of whether I'm going to like it. (Though the responses are welcomed and the insight is helpful. But, it's anecdotal at best)
That's pretty much all I have to say about that.
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Well what you are calling a superficial reason here is the MAIN reason for some players and is not viewed by most as a superficial reason. That "feeling" is developing a character background that happens to only work for the stalker AT and enjoying the character reguardless of whether or not someone else can do more dps or survive more incoming dps. |
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
I didn't feel it was necessary to explain myself any further.
However, I cannot care less about the combinations. I didn't ask what people thought about the sets. I'll play what I want to play. I asked the question, because I'm looking to see if I'll care to play a stalker any further than I already have. Pretty much all the answers have amounted to intangible evidence as to why one should be a stalker. It all comes down to a "feeling" which is a superficial reason to play an AT. I have played many characters recently that I simply haven't enjoyed and have rerolled them at different level ranging from as early as 10 to as late as the mid 40's. I'm not interested in wasting anymore of my limited play time. So, I ask questions like this one. Unfortunately answers that boil down to "because I like it" doesn't give me an idea of whether I'm going to like it. (Though the responses are welcomed and the insight is helpful. But, it's anecdotal at best) That's pretty much all I have to say about that. |
For many people, the things you ask for in the main post are viewed as superficial. Your original post has the attitude of "What's the point when other ATs are stronger?" To many, thinking you aren't going to enjoy the character for that reason is superficial because all you are concerned with is performance, not the character. The damage/survival/speed, not the story or reason the character was created.
*This is all my view on what you have said based on just the text that was read, and is not me trying to tell you what you are thinking. Just the way I'm interpreting what you have said, and what others have openly said in the past.
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Simply put, your interpretation of my intentions is wrong. That's all.
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Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Well what you are calling a superficial reason here is the MAIN reason for some players and is not viewed by most as a superficial reason. That "feeling" is developing a character background that happens to only work for the stalker AT and enjoying the character reguardless of whether or not someone else can do more dps or survive more incoming dps.
For many people, the things you ask for in the main post are viewed as superficial. Your original post has the attitude of "What's the point when other ATs are stronger?" To many, thinking you aren't going to enjoy the character for that reason is superficial because all you are concerned with is performance, not the character. The damage/survival/speed, not the story or reason the character was created. *This is all my view on what you have said based on just the text that was read, and is not me trying to tell you what you are thinking. Just the way I'm interpreting what you have said, and what others have openly said in the past. |
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I'm sorry, but it's impossible to answer your question in the way you want. |
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
I asked the question, because I'm looking to see if I'll care to play a stalker any further than I already have. Pretty much all the answers have amounted to intangible evidence as to why one should be a stalker. It all comes down to a "feeling" which is a superficial reason to play an AT.
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"Because I think it's fun" is the only reason I play stalkers. That doesn't tell you whether you will find stalkers fun. Even if I had a concrete "non-anecdotal" reason to enjoy stalkers, who's to say you'd enjoy it for the same reason?
You are basically looking for an answer that doesn't exist. If you want to try a stalker, do so. If you're afraid you might "waste" your play time, then don't.
There's nothing we can say that will guarantee whether you will enjoy stalkers or not.
But to maybe make it easier for you, my observations are as follows (and I'm sure others will disagree): In general, Stalkers have their major "gameplay changing" growth at level 6 (when you get assassin strike) at level 26 (when you get your tier 8 attack and actually have a proper attack chain that doesn't involve assassin strike) and level 32 (when you get your tier 9 attack). Depending on set, level 26 or 32 is where the famous "BU -> AS -> Placate -> Strong attack" attack chain starts to make sense. Placate is kinda wasted on a tier 1 or tier 2 attack.
So, to answer your own original question, consider this:
1) How do you like playing a stalker before level 6?
2) How do you like playing your stalker after level 6? The "sneak up and STAB" play style will stay with you for at least another 20 levels. Maybe much longer if you like it. If you don't like it, "scrapper-viability" is a loooong 20 - 26 levels away. If you like how you stalker play before level 10 (and outside the DfB trial
), it shouldn't be a chore to get him to the next stage. If you don't, now is probably a good time to stop.3) Get to level 26. How do you like the feel now? You're still a sneaky *******, but once you have your tier 8 (and maybe slotted it up a bit) you're not nearly as reliant on being a sneaky *******. You could scrap it out before if you really had to. Now you're good at it.
4) Get to level 32. Now you have all your attacks. Your gameplay isn't really going to change much from now on. The only major factors from 32 to 50 are outside forces like enemy groups that may or may not suck. Do you like your stalkers more or less after 32 (or 33)? If the answer is more, then you're well on your way to enjoy the rest of the game. If less... well, then you probably don't want to waste more time on it.
Those are the major stages. I think the most critical one (especially if you're worried about time investments) is the level 6 one. Do you enjoy playing your stalker at pre-10 levels? Then you will probably enjoy it all the way. If you don't, the play experience isn't going to change much. At least not for a long time.
Playing a character to level 6, 8 or 10 shouldn't be a huge investment, and should give you a pretty good idea. Just don't rely exclusively on DfB data.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
I rolled one as the next iteration o' my character, which was a Claws/Elec/Mu. It familiarized me with the functionality o' Stealth/Hide and Placate so when it came time to roll the iteration after that, my Bane, I was familiar with how I wanted to play one.
I enjoyed playin'im, but I feel my Bane surpasses it in what I want out o' an AT now. I'm not faultin' the Stalker AT or castin' aspersions on it, I just get more entertainment from my Bane.
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