You think NCSoft has let up creating copywrighted toons now that it's free?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-10-07 01:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Because NCSoft doesn't trust you and your good intentions enough to shield themselves from potential liability.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
A name like Inferno, or Ricochet doesn't fall into the same category, because they are simply words.
If you create a Ricochet that does not have the same look and backstory/powers as an existing character, there is nothing that can be done about it, because you cannot copyright or trademark a common word.  This is what was said. Wolverine and Phoenix are simply words, words that have been in use long before people ever thought of a computer. So, I was asking if they can't be copyrighted/tradmarked, why block them? I could easily make up concepts for these names that have nothing to do with the Marvel versions of them. |
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Precisely,|
Originally Posted by Smersh
Because NCSoft doesn't trust you and your good intentions enough to shield themselves from potential liability.
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...and there is some additional confusion here- single common words CAN be made into trademarks. It isn't as simple as saying "likeness and common name are an issue." Sometimes the word- even a common word- used in a certain context- are a risk
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i still don't see the point. In the event that i decide to make some sort of homage character i still never try to duplicate the name, look, and abilities of the original; instead i take a mashup approach at the very least. For one thing directly copying someone else's character boring and stupid. i can see taking inspiration from another character, but copying them just means you really lack even the ability to feign creativity considering the number of free tools available.|
Originally Posted by The_South
I wasn't actually planning on making anything marvel or dc. I just meant fictional characters in general. Like even some really unknown character from Bomberman 64, or some other very underplayed game.
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i have occasionally made characters that play off of the names of other characters, but not copying them. Like making Backlight to act as Foreshadow's eeeeeevillll counterpart.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
My favorite facepalm-worthy story about trademarked names on CoH characters was when I teamed with someone who had made a spot-on Thing One (from The Cat in the Hat) costume, but their name (not costume) got generic'd because of Marvel Comics' trademark. <Insert comment about some poor GM having no childhood.>
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If a name is copyrighted in the comic world, and you use it, Paragon will generic you. Their filter does not block all names and it is frustrating. You would think: how does Marvel get to have the sole rights to the name Apocalypse in the comic industry? They didn't create the name or anything close to it. So, one day I'm messing around making a toon and I get the name Apocalypse (no l/i trick etc). My toon did not look like the Marvel character in the slightest. Three months after making the toon, IOing and getting him to 50, I get the generic bat. Pathetic. I've had many other names taken from me in similar fashion and just had one take that isn't copyrighted which I am disputing.
Best bet is to google a name and if there is an existing comic character with the name then expect to be genericed. I don't know what kind of agreement NC went into with Marvel et al but it stinks.
The facepalm wasn't that it was generic'd, it was that it was generic'd due to Marvel, not Random House.
Tech support IRL, CLR/DRU/MED/WHM/PRI/DEF. Hmm, I sense a pattern...
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I saw three Doc Holidays get gen'd in one afternoon last week. Pretty sure it was the same player each time. Costume was identical but the character name and global name spelling changed each time to get around the ban.
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If it was the same guy, after 3 rabid generics like that, you can bet he ended up with a 3 day suspension.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I saw three Doc Holidays get gen'd in one afternoon last week. Pretty sure it was the same player each time. Costume was identical but the character name and global name spelling changed each time to get around the ban.
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Although WHY he got generic'd for a historical figure I have no idea! That's... Silly!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
Wouldn't it save a lot of time and effort to simply necro one of the thousands of threads that have covered this exact ground in the exact same terms with the exact legal pronouncements by people claiming to be experts?
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Nope, because that would violate the forum rules and the mods would come in and lock the thread.
Of course, that would shorten the new arguments. |
.)This thread is a virtual word-for-word repeat of every other thread on the matter.
Isn't there also a forum rule against posting the same thing over and over?
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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I don't see what good a three day suspension would do. I think he was making new free accounts each time he got genericed.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
If it was the same guy, after 3 rabid generics like that, you can bet he ended up with a 3 day suspension.
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| Although WHY he got generic'd for a historical figure I have no idea! That's... Silly! |
I don't know just guessing on my part.
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Yes, if it's done by the same person and it's done in fairly rapid succession.|
Originally Posted by Melancton
Isn't there also a forum rule against posting the same thing over and over?
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For example
One person starting multiple rage rants about the same topic ove the course of one to several days.
A person repeatedly starting the same thread after it's been locked or deleted by the Mods.
Or even posting a continuing thread on another persons behalf after they've been suspended or banned.
It's important to note that all the fine points of trademark law really don't matter here. What matters is that you agree to the EULA every time you play, and that the game and its servers are the private property of NCSoft.
They can generic your character because they don't like the way your pink tights clash with your orange cape.
They can generic you because you didn't capitalize the first letter in your character's name.
They can generic you for any reason they please. It may not be good business to do so, but they can.
In my considered opinion, they are being remarkably lenient with some remarkably stupid character concepts and names I've seen running around.
I used to fiddle with my back feet music for a black onyx. My entire room absorbed every echo. The music was . . . thud like. The music was . . . thud like. I usually played such things as rough-neck and thug. Opaque melodies that would bug most people. Music from the other side of the fence.
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They didn't generic a character born of Hellion lesbians. That's a testament to their sense of humor.
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Originally Posted by PSLAnimal
In my considered opinion, they are being remarkably lenient with some remarkably stupid character concepts and names I've seen running around.
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Why would they? Whilst kinda silly, such a character breaks no rules.
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Originally Posted by Prodiguy
They didn't generic a character born of Hellion lesbians. That's a testament to their sense of humor.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Smersh answered it already, but I figured I'd reply since you were talking to me. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
This is what was said. Wolverine and Phoenix are simply words, words that have been in use long before people ever thought of a computer. So, I was asking if they can't be copyrighted/tradmarked, why block them? I could easily make up concepts for these names that have nothing to do with the Marvel versions of them.
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Wolverine and Phoenix are blocked, though they are common words and the word alone is not enough to violate a trademark.
They are blocked because if they were not, it is guaranteed that someone would violate the trademark almost immediately. Wolverine in particular is an extremely popular character. I've lost count of the number of "Wolverines" I've seen in the game, using various means of getting around the blocked name.
A character like Thor is a better example. Marvel cannot sue anyone for using the name, or even the character of Thor, because he is a mythological figure that has existed for hundreds of years. However, they can sue if someone violates the trademark they have on their specific version of Thor.
Their version is characterized as a blond man with long hair who wears a winged helmet and red cape. He also speaks in heraldic English. That version of him is unlike any other version of Thor I've ever run across (he is usually depicted as a large red-haired man with a beard who wears more traditional Viking clothing), which makes their version of him unique enough to trademark.
The name Thor is blocked because there is a specific version of him trademarked by a company who deals in a similar medium (superhero stories). And you can bet that if it weren't, someone would have ripped off Marvel's version of him. I've seen numerous examples of people trying to get around the block, probably due to the very recently released movie.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Both Marvel and NCsoft have a vested interest in limiting copy written characters in the game. For Marvel, it keeps City of Heroes from becoming the place where you can make your own Marvel characters and for NCsoft, it keeps CoH from becoming an advertising hub for all things Marvel.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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I always thought that if I were making a super hero game I would use Thor as a training aid, like a first training character. That would mean there would be a version of Thor in the game that you could ensure fit your IP and would give you an opportunity to explain a bit about trade marks and why making a character with claws called "Snikt!" is not allowed |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
A character like Thor is a better example. Marvel cannot sue anyone for using the name, or even the character of Thor, because he is a mythological figure that has existed for hundreds of years. However, they can sue if someone violates the trademark they have on their specific version of Thor.
Their version is characterized as a blond man with long hair who wears a winged helmet and red cape. He also speaks in heraldic English. That version of him is unlike any other version of Thor I've ever run across (he is usually depicted as a large red-haired man with a beard who wears more traditional Viking clothing), which makes their version of him unique enough to trademark. The name Thor is blocked because there is a specific version of him trademarked by a company who deals in a similar medium (superhero stories). And you can bet that if it weren't, someone would have ripped off Marvel's version of him. I've seen numerous examples of people trying to get around the block, probably due to the very recently released movie. |
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
> Looks at thread title
What is this, I don't even...
I knew this thread was bogus the moment I saw COPYRIGHTED spelt wrong :|
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@Oneirohero
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If PS ever makes a power copying powerset, I create the dreaded Copywight. Undead villainess with copy powers. Maybe I'll give her thread necromancy to rezzing dead horses too.
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Originally Posted by Oneirohero
> Looks at thread title
What is this, I don't even... I knew this thread was bogus the moment I saw COPYRIGHTED spelt wrong :| |
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The /generic hammer can be a little intimidating. 
Technically, the name "Oedipus Tex" is copyrighted--it's apparantly the name of an album or something written by P.D.Q. Bach (who at that time I had never heard of). I didn't know anything about this when I created the character, but occasionally someone will ask about it. The name actually got generated for my first character using a brute force method; I started with the name "Tex" because I knew I could use the cowboy hat and cycled through a list of rhymes until "Rex" came up, and I made the character using that.
Anyway I run the risk of one of my main characters getting /generic'ed at any time. I can't blame them because they have to protect themselves from lawsuits, but on the other hand my luck does suck that of all the random phrases in the world, that one happens to have an album associated with it. :P [There is also at least one other player who uses this name and has posted videos on YouTube, but is not me.]
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At CoH pre-release, Paragon was practically "City of Wolverine", at least on Justice. Unique sightings of him were a daily occurrence. There were other trademarked characters cloned, but with Claws/Regen a valid powerset combination, and there being a lot of more subtle ways to recreate him than those for, say, Superman or The Hulk, they tended to persist longer in the face of GM's searching for TM violations.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
They are blocked because if they were not, it is guaranteed that someone would violate the trademark almost immediately. Wolverine in particular is an extremely popular character. I've lost count of the number of "Wolverines" I've seen in the game, using various means of getting around the blocked name.
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One of my favorite Wolvie clones was one in plain clothes named "Bub". I found it wonderfully subtle.
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A phoenix is a mythical bird known for immolating itself upon death, and having a baby phoenix emerge from the ashes
Phoenix is also a place in Arizona
If you create a Ricochet that does not have the same look and backstory/powers as an existing character, there is nothing that can be done about it, because you cannot copyright or trademark a common word.
This is what was said. Wolverine and Phoenix are simply words, words that have been in use long before people ever thought of a computer. So, I was asking if they can't be copyrighted/tradmarked, why block them? I could easily make up concepts for these names that have nothing to do with the Marvel versions of them.
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