What are currently the best scrapper secondaries?


Arcanaville

 

Posted

What are the best secondary powersets for scrappers? And why? Thank you for your time!

If you want to list which ones to avoid, that also works.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherealStar View Post
What are the best secondary powersets for scrappers? And why? Thank you for your time!

If you want to list which ones to avoid, that also works.
Vague question is vague....

Ok, WTF does 'best' mean, TO YOU.

Do you want MOAR DAMAGE? Fire aura.

Do you want to live through the sky falling on you? Invuln.

Do you want to be the freakin' energizer bunny and never ever stop? Willpower.

Do you want to be OH SO FAST? Electric armor.

Do you want to be the delicate but deadly king of the battlefield? Super Reflexes.

Etc, etc, etc.

There is no 'best.' There are only 'good' at various different things.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Vague question is vague....

Ok, WTF does 'best' mean, TO YOU.

Do you want MOAR DAMAGE? Fire aura.

Do you want to live through the sky falling on you? Invuln.

Do you want to be the freakin' energizer bunny and never ever stop? Willpower.

Do you want to be OH SO FAST? Electric armor.

Do you want to be the delicate but deadly king of the battlefield? Super Reflexes.

Etc, etc, etc.

There is no 'best.' There are only 'good' at various different things.
I heard this as well. Let me be more specific:

Which is best with Street Justice? And why? You answered my question quite well. And are there any that are flat about bad and avoid, or at least worse than the rest?

I mostly just want to make sure I choose a good secondary. I have chosen bad powersets in the past and I don't want to make that mistake today.


 

Posted

What mauk2 said. The devs have had many, many years to balance the secondaries. They've done a good job with the Scrapper secondaries. Primaries too. Different sets are better at different things, but there are no best and worst sets without knowing build goals, play style, and so on.

Edit: Heh, and you clarified while I was posting. Unfortunately, I'm no Street Justice expert.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Again... doesn't really matter. StJ doesn't really have meshing power. It's pretty good with any set. I would say if you want some extra damage, go SD (Not sure how the animations are changed with SD). Easy and cheap to soft-cap? SR. Tough in just about every content? Invuln or WP.



Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

 

Posted

OK, here are some guesses with Street Justice. I assume it's a smashy smashy set like Martial Arts or Super Strength with a mishmash of secondary effects that provide a lot less mitigation than you might hope. I'm going to assume it's a low-mitigation primary. I also assume it has no heal?

While leveling at least, some secondaries are happier with some mitigation or a heal from your primary. You're not really getting that, so for leveling purposes, you may want to limit yourself to secondaries that provide a more complete package.

In that regard, I think Willpower or maybe Energy Aura would be best, at least for survivability. Then there are a bunch of secondaries that would like a heal, but greens are usually sufficient, and you can always pick up aid self. I'd put Super Reflexes, Shield Defense and Invulnerability in that boat, and would probably pick Shield Defense to boost your damage, and because Shield Charge is also smashy, so is consistent in that way. Then there are secondaries that I think do best with decent mitigation from your primary, which is something you don't (?) have a lot of, so these are the ones I'd be more cautious about choosing - Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura and Regeneration.

As I said, I don't have any experience with Street Justice, and I also haven't studied Energy Aura, so take my recommendations (particularly for the Street Justice/Energy Aura combo) with a grain of salt. A really big grain of salt. Maybe a salt lick. Maybe a "why am I even posting" sized salt lick.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
OK, here are some guesses with Street Justice. I assume it's a smashy smashy set like Martial Arts or Super Strength with a mishmash of secondary effects that provide a lot less mitigation than you might hope. I'm going to assume it's a low-mitigation primary. I also assume it has no heal?

While leveling at least, some secondaries are happier with some mitigation or a heal from your primary. You're not really getting that, so for leveling purposes, you may want to limit yourself to secondaries that provide a more complete package.

In that regard, I think Willpower or maybe Energy Aura would be best, at least for survivability. Then there are a bunch of secondaries that would like a heal, but greens are usually sufficient, and you can always pick up aid self. I'd put Super Reflexes, Shield Defense and Invulnerability in that boat, and would probably pick Shield Defense to boost your damage, and because Shield Charge is also smashy, so is consistent in that way. Then there are secondaries that I think do best with decent mitigation from your primary, which is something you don't (?) have a lot of, so these are the ones I'd be more cautious about choosing - Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura and Regeneration.

As I said, I don't have any experience with Street Justice, and I also haven't studied Energy Aura, so take my recommendations (particularly for the Street Justice/Energy Aura combo) with a grain of salt. A really big grain of salt. Maybe a salt lick. Maybe a "why am I even posting" sized salt lick.
Great, I was leaning towards invulnerability, so I am very happy it would work!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
OK, here are some guesses with Street Justice. I assume it's a smashy smashy set like Martial Arts or Super Strength with a mishmash of secondary effects that provide a lot less mitigation than you might hope. I'm going to assume it's a low-mitigation primary. I also assume it has no heal?

While leveling at least, some secondaries are happier with some mitigation or a heal from your primary. You're not really getting that, so for leveling purposes, you may want to limit yourself to secondaries that provide a more complete package.

In that regard, I think Willpower or maybe Energy Aura would be best, at least for survivability. Then there are a bunch of secondaries that would like a heal, but greens are usually sufficient, and you can always pick up aid self. I'd put Super Reflexes, Shield Defense and Invulnerability in that boat, and would probably pick Shield Defense to boost your damage, and because Shield Charge is also smashy, so is consistent in that way. Then there are secondaries that I think do best with decent mitigation from your primary, which is something you don't (?) have a lot of, so these are the ones I'd be more cautious about choosing - Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura and Regeneration.

As I said, I don't have any experience with Street Justice, and I also haven't studied Energy Aura, so take my recommendations (particularly for the Street Justice/Energy Aura combo) with a grain of salt. A really big grain of salt. Maybe a salt lick. Maybe a "why am I even posting" sized salt lick.
I've been playing my StJ/inv scrapper a lot over the past couple days; lvl 27, and so gotten most of the goodies. StJ is totally a smashy-smashy set with a mishmash of secondary effects, but they're layered on thick enough in the 2 AoE powers that I'd actually rank its mitigation as quite good. The targeted AoE, Spinning Strike, especially; I think at combo level 3 it has a 75% chance to KD and a 30% chance for a mag 3 fear. Though the radius is small, in a packed crowd it's kinda jaw-dropping.

Building combo levels is no problem, as every attack is lightning-fast. So fast, the set chews through endurance like crazy. Like, a lot. Build for that in mind.

I think it's a good choice for any secondary. I'm going to try it on a /dark brute next, though leveling up /dark armor toons is...not my favorite thing, haha, but I'm willing to give it a shot because i got a great name for it, and i still don't have a high-level /DA.


50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!

 

Posted

Shield.



GOD DEVS WHY CAN'T I PLAY SHIELD WITHOUT HAVING TO LIVE WITH SHIELD GFX AND ALTERNATE ANIMATIONS grumble grumble I'll go sulk in that corner, and reroll
another SR and whine about having lower res and HP and no fear protection
another inv and whine about having lower DDR and defense and no fear protection
another WP and whine about having lower DDR and defense


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Shield.



GOD DEVS WHY CAN'T I PLAY SHIELD WITHOUT HAVING TO LIVE WITH SHIELD GFX AND ALTERNATE ANIMATIONS grumble grumble I'll go sulk in that corner, and reroll
another SR and whine about having lower res and HP and no fear protection
another inv and whine about having lower DDR and defense and no fear protection
another WP and whine about having lower DDR and defense
I requested a Bubble Shield effect for the set! Same stats, but puts you in a bubble akin to Force Field Bubbles, and can still be a "shield"

Now...I'd just like a Hybrid set of Regen and SR to make me happy.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I requested a Bubble Shield effect for the set! Same stats, but puts you in a bubble akin to Force Field Bubbles, and can still be a "shield"

Now...I'd just like a Hybrid set of Regen and SR to make me happy.
Bubble Charge!!!!


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Bubble Charge!!!!
Bubble Charge would of at least made Spines/Shields, Claw/Shields, Katana/Shields, and Dual Blade/Shields a possibility.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
GOD DEVS WHY CAN'T I PLAY SHIELD WITHOUT HAVING TO LIVE WITH SHIELD GFX
Yeah, why is it that Shield uses shields?


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Shield.



GOD DEVS WHY CAN'T I PLAY SHIELD WITHOUT HAVING TO LIVE WITH SHIELD GFX AND ALTERNATE ANIMATIONS grumble grumble I'll go sulk in that corner, and reroll
another SR and whine about having lower res and HP and no fear protection
another inv and whine about having lower DDR and defense and no fear protection
another WP and whine about having lower DDR and defense
Some of the elemental shields are barely noticeable if colored right. On my elec/SD I used the elec style shield and the few times I notice its there it looks awesome. Sometimes I forget that I have /SD


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Yeah, why is it that Shield uses shields?
I know you are speaking tongue-in-cheek, but I would pay good money for a set that was functionally identical to Shield but didn't require me to carry a shield around. I would also pay good money for a set that functioned identically to Invulnerability, but let me carry a shield.

Really I would like it if shields were a costume part that wasn't tied to one power set, I guess. Purely cosmetic, but there it is.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I requested a Bubble Shield effect for the set! Same stats, but puts you in a bubble akin to Force Field Bubbles, and can still be a "shield"
That would be pretty amazing "Force Shield" or "Force Field Defense".

Rather than bubbles around the character, I think whatever they used to make the Victorian Decor Aura except covering the whole body would be perfect.

So it looks more like a form fitting force field instead of a huge bubble.



@OP:

IMO, Shield is the "best" all around set for a Scrapper.

Added Damage bonus/DPS improvement
Added AoE Burst
Fairly easy to softcap
Flexible slotting options to build for high recharge
Low/Moderate Resistances, which can be supplemented by OWTS
Solid HP, which can be supplemented by OWTS
Several "one slot wonder" powers (AAO, Phalanx Fighting, Grant Cover, OWTS)
Excellent mez protection
Taunt Aura


Some other sets are better at some particular niche, but for all around solid survivability and very good offense, Shield gives you a full package.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
That would be pretty amazing "Force Shield" or "Force Field Defense".

Rather than bubbles around the character, I think whatever they used to make the Victorian Decor Aura except covering the whole body would be perfect.

So it looks more like a form fitting force field instead of a huge bubble.



@OP:

IMO, Shield is the "best" all around set for a Scrapper.

Added Damage bonus/DPS improvement
Added AoE Burst
Fairly easy to softcap
Flexible slotting options to build for high recharge
Low/Moderate Resistances, which can be supplemented by OWTS
Solid HP, which can be supplemented by OWTS
Several "one slot wonder" powers (AAO, Phalanx Fighting, OWTS)
Excellent mez protection
Taunt Aura


Some other sets are better at some particular niche, but for all around solid survivability and very good offense, Shield gives you a full package.
I have always found this part about shields somewhat odd. Whenever I think of a shield, I automatically assume that the individual decided to forsake some offensive capability for more defense. With City of Heroes, this is definitely not that case!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Bubble Charge would of at least made Spines/Shields, Claw/Shields, Katana/Shields, and Dual Blade/Shields a possibility.
would *have*

[fingernails on blackboard sound]


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
I know you are speaking tongue-in-cheek, but I would pay good money for a set that was functionally identical to Shield but didn't require me to carry a shield around. I would also pay good money for a set that functioned identically to Invulnerability, but let me carry a shield.

Really I would like it if shields were a costume part that wasn't tied to one power set, I guess. Purely cosmetic, but there it is.
Agreed. CoH has generally done a good job of separating form and function. You can go nuts in the costume designer and it doesn't affect your powers. You can slot any IO and it doesn't change your costume. Lots of powers can be colored, have alternate animations, or can even turned off visually. I like that.

I think it would make sense for a shield to just be a costume option and for "Shield Defense" to be an archaic term that doesn't describe the set any more, kind of like "Regeneration".


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Agreed. CoH has generally done a good job of separating form and function.
Tell that to Stone Armor


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I requested a Bubble Shield effect for the set! Same stats, but puts you in a bubble akin to Force Field Bubbles, and can still be a "shield"

Now...I'd just like a Hybrid set of Regen and SR to make me happy.
Only if you're forced to listen to the Bubble Bobble music over and over while playing with it.


They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherealStar View Post
What are the best secondary powersets for scrappers? And why? Thank you for your time!

If you want to list which ones to avoid, that also works.
Whichever one I'm playing at the moment! \o/

But from a purely play standpoint, I actually prefere Regen, from my min/max PoV (I really, for me in min/maxing, it's taking a concept build and then IOing it for best performance) however, I find I am not nearly as tough as I am on my WPs


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

I'd suggest energy aura.

WHAT!???

Actually, it makes sense. New and improved energy aura does several things that are good for all scrappers, and especially Street Justice.

Street Justice really benefits from a lot of recharge. It is all about getting as many crushing uppercuts as possible really, because CU has about double the DPA of the other attacks. Energy aura allows you to maximize recharge, leading to more CU.

It also eliminates the need for endurance. Between energize and energy drain you really don't need to worry. This allows you to use either musculature or spiritual to increase damage instead of Cardiac.

Energy aura also gives the potential for some seriously good defense stats. On my planned build I have 65% to smashing/lethal/energy, 54% to fire/cold and 51% to negative with maxed energy drain. That is enough to leave you softcapped to all but psychic and incarnate soft-capped to the majority of damage. With energize, you can get some fairly good +regen numbers on top of that defense. I'm looking at 560% with physical perfection, and with t4 rebirth I'm looking at roughly 90ish hps (40ish without).

DPS wise my calculations show a theoretical DPS for the build above at around 306, counting the -res in the set. While CR is active that jumps to a spike of 370ish. For those interested, I usually get about 90% of the theoretical max, so I'm looking at 270ish to 340ish DPS on a character that is at the incarnate soft-cap to the most common damage types and doesn't require 10 targets for the damage (I have a DM/SD, I know what needing targets is like).

I also ran the numbers for tankers, to see what the additional -res could do. My best numbers were 220ish for a Willpower/Stj. I think that a SD might push 300. A Willpower tanker that can hit over 200 DPS is insane! I mean, we are talking about a character that takes in over 100 HPS before rebirth, can be softcapped, and can resist cap to smashing/lethal, and that character can now deal more damage than most scrappers could just a few issues ago.

I'll run my numbers for a Stj/SD scrapper and tank to see what they are like. I'm not planning on switching, but it should be interesting. I already have a great level 50 shielder and don't need another, and I am weary of going without a heal in either powerset. More damage, sure, more DDR, sure, but less capable at the incarnate level and much squishier do to the relative lack of healing.


TW/Elec Optimization