What are currently the best scrapper secondaries?

In simple form, HB does 253.6 average damage, RC 276.3, SB 321.7, combo 3 CU 750.6 on the build that I am planning, with musculature t4 and t4 interface. Combo is SC-RC-HB-SC-RB-CU, which takes 9.3952 seconds counting arcanatime.

Total damage 2211.9, divided by time gives you 230 dps.

THAT'S NOT 300!

Of course it isn't. Between interface's -res, rib cracker, and the proc in SB I am averaging about 30% -res, (a little less, but not a ton less).

223*1.3 = 306

With CR active the numbers for each power go up to HB-315.2, RC-331.5, SB-397.6, CU-918.5. DPS before res-286. DPS after-372.


Damage for each power will vary with build of course, and these numbers are just taken using the stats from mids (I do the calculations myself but use mids numbers for things like enhancement percentage, +dam% from IOs and proc damage.


Yes, the -res makes that much difference.

You should add Brute into your calculations. They get recharge a little easier by having a decent ranged attack to add into the chain and another opportunity for a +10% purple.
I was able to get enough recharge on a StJ/Energy Brute for the following attack chain: Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Gloom -> Shin Breaker -> Crushing Uppercut
for 215.51 dps. That isn't including reactive procs nor -resistance. Also Gloom and Rib Cracker are only 5 slotted, they could add another proc in there for more damage but I actually intend to use this build and don't really have any slots to spare...

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I thought I read somewhere that the resistance debuff portion in reactive was broken right now?

Has that been fixed now?

I never really go for the debuff in the first place, so I can't check for myself without building a new power, and I'm not THAT interested.

I've changed the build I was using, adding in more damage procs and assault.

Total built +dam % is 17.5%. Chain is RC-SB-HB-CU-RC-SB-SC.

Enhancement percentage after musculature is:
RC- 127%, purple proc, glad proc and mako's bite proc for average of 64
SB- 132%, -res proc
HB- 127%, mako's bite proc for average of 14
CU- 138%, purple proc
SC- 138%, -res glad proc, purple proc

Total damage is 2350, total time is 10.92, average DPS without reactive or -res is 215. 229 with interface.

Average -res from the two procs + rib cracker, without considering that they can't double stack, is 22%. Adding interface -resistance, and it goes up to 26%. I'm using the equation 10/10.92*.25*2.5*7 to equate the -resistance portion. 10/10.92 is the time of the proc over time of the chain, .25 is activation chance and 2.5 is magnitude, 7 is for 7 chances to proc in the chain.

So that we do not count procs in our equation (as they aren't affected by -res), we take out the procs gives you 198 DPS times 1.27 which gives 268, or 2929 damage over 10.92 seconds. Adding in procs for 213 damage and you get 3107/10.92, giving you 288 damage per second. Finally, multiply by .95 for accuracy, and you get 274 DPS.

This is all on a character that doesn't have FE, a damage aura, or AAO, is incarnate capped with 1 unit in Energy Drain range for smashing/lethal, and regenerates 80 hps. If you can find something horribly wrong with my math, please help. I am going to run a simulation for about 100 runs of the chain, activating CR whenever it is up and then immediately starting the chain at either CU or SC depending on which is recharged, to find the contributation of CR. My expectation is for it to increase DPS by about 40.

Again, if you are /Fire or /Shield and have similar enhancement values/proc usage you will even higher results. If FE increases damage by 40% on average, the DPS assuming everything else is the same, the DPS will be over 390. A shielder with 10 units in range will be looking at over 360. And that ISN'T counting in CR's +damage or combo points, though it doesn't assume you will have the same enhancement values, the same chain, assault, and the same procs, as well as a little extra DPS because I am just using the equation mag*chance in chain to activate for the -res procs, which doesn't account for the chance for double procs not being counted.

The set is similar to DM if DM could slot 2 -res procs. It is insanely good at what it does, though it doesn't have a heal in the set like DM does (it does, however, debuff damage by 11%, which will work even on AVs/GMs).

[QUOTE=Combat;3926964I think that extra attacks between CU and SC may hurt the dps. It may be better to do a chain similar to RC-SB-HB-CU-SC, which would make better use of EA's recharge. Should require 340% recharge if I'm calculating right. If CU is enhanced by 96% (as it is in my build slotting Hecatomb), it would require 244% recharge to run that chain, which is possible with spiritual, but impossible with musculature without losing somewhere else. The build I am using currently has 180% with 1 target in EA, 212.5% with 10. So instead, I'll run with RC-SB-HB-CU-RC-SC, which would also make use of RC's heavy proccage. That chain only requires a total of 250% recharge, easily done. For the benefits of this thread, I'll also try the other chain with Spiritual to see what the difference is. I'll also add in the average damage lost by missing, though I'll also assume that you just use CU or SC at a lower combo level, rather than using another builder, because that will be easier to calculate, and probably will deal more damage. And finally, I'll subtract the chance of the -res proc activating twice in one chain so that the number is more accurate.

With the RC-SB-HB-CU-RB-SC, using musculature and the procs/enhancement percentages described above, the total damage is 2111, time is 9.42, DPS is 223. The chance for the achilles's heel proc to activate twice is negligible (total average -res counting interface would be 25.95 instead of 26.00), so we will continue using 26 as our average -res. With those numbers, we get an average DPS of 299.
[/QUOTE]

Well, running that chain will at least boost SC above Initial Strike in DPA, as it would have 1 combo point (sans the times CU misses, inwhich it will be level 3), but would allow for the slotting of a Purple Proc and the -Resist PvP IO, to help make up for that.

I'm also guessing RB = SB (Shin Breaker).

Actually, RB is RC, Rib Cracker. My bad.

And no, I do not want to do the math yet for the chance of SC doing more damage when CU misses, as I believe it would be basically negligible.

Also, taking initial strike makes a tighter build, so I am trying to avoid it regardless. At least a power slot and a couple of IOs extra, which isn't worth the cost.

Base DPA of 0 combo SC, with purple proc- 76.61
Base DPA of IS- 61.68

Of course, that would become different once they have some +damage, as the proc shifts it considerably at base damage (sc has 57 DPA before the proc. SC is basically in the mix for the purple proc, glad proc, and slight chance to make up for a CU miss.

Numbers for a spiritual Stj/EA:

193 base dps, 260 after -resistance. So musculature will still do more damage, and have higher DPE. So that particular chain won't increase DPS. Perhaps if I replace SC with RC. That chain gives roughly 200 (counting in the additional chance to increase combo), and about 272 DPS. Still better. Now, if I switching my slotting for RC and HB, it goes up to 205 base DPS and 280 after -resistance. Still slightly less than with musculature. However, RC can also take another proc (a purple proc, 3*normal procs, and ToD). If I change the build around just slightly, than it can happen. Hasten was slotted with 3 level 50 rechargers, but on this build that is highly unnecessary. It actually only needed one. Our slotting is now a +3 Dam/Acc HO, a 55 damage IO, and 4 procs. That gives us 91.3% enhancement, and an average proc benefit of 78 damage, for a grand total of 214 base DPS, 287 DPS after -resistance.

So, if you have a maxed out crazy build and plan for spiritual, it can do almost as good as musculature. However, the total recharge for that chain is 420%, impossible. It also burns more endurance, meaning you need more Energy Drain's to run it, and would be completely unfeasible for any set other /SR and /EA. So I would recommend going musculature.

I would like to mention that we can get 30% extra recharge from base bonuses and the time lord day job accolade, allowing a Stj/EA to use a faster chain with musculature. Doing that would get you over 300 dps.

It is possible that my equation for arcanatime is wrong. That would explain the time discrepancy. I am using ROUNDUP((activation/.132)+1)*.132 and I am getting

Heavy Blow 1.07->1.20
Rib Cracker 1.33->1.46
Shin Breaker 1.33->1.46
Crushing Uppercut 2.17->2.3
Sweeping Cross 1.67->1.80

If the equation was wrong, then that would explain why the numbers are so different. Are we sure CU is a 10% crit rate? It is also likely that the numbers on mid's are just wrong. I haven't checked the in-game real numbers on each power.

If I artificially change my time to be 11.88 seconds, then I get 233 DPS for the musculature chain (177 before -res), the discrepancy coming from the tohit calculations for the combo points. Oh, and if I didn't make it clear, the build has 17.5% +damage from assault and the ranged purple set, which also changes the numbers you had. I'm getting a base DPS of 161 before combo, before procs. Adding everything, I get 263. That is still pretty amazing considering that EA adds virtually nothing to your offense except recharge and endurance efficiency.

The main difference for street justice is the mechanics. The combo system is multiplicative, and multiplies by the amount of +damage and -res. This multiplicative affect means that street justice increases at a faster rate than other sets with affects, and do to the combo system street justice is affected more than most sets by recharge. Because street justice can get access to both -res procs, it can outperform its apparent DPA.

For instance, let's use your numbers, but switch to a shield user with 10 targets in AAO adding 81.3% +damage. I'm getting a total damage of 2535 before anything is changed, and a total of 336 after everything is done. This is analogous to modern DM/Shields, but it doesn't take into account CR. I believe that CR will boost it above other builds.


If we switch the numbers to fire, than the additional multiplicative affect of FE comes into play. I heard somewhere that the affect is about 45% more damage, so we'll take the numbers from the first and multiply the base damage done by 45%. Sometime later I'll determine what the actual affect would be at the 154% needed to run this chain (actually lower than that, because that uses my number). Anyway, that would get 360 DPS, before CR.

And what if we took that and added about 150% +damage and lowered the base damage to brute levels (IE a stj/fa brute with 75% fury)? Even ignoring the existence of gloom, we see a DPS of 350. And that still isn't counting CR, a better DPA attack, a better chain, etc.

Now, the numbers on FA are likely to be exaggerated because I pulled a number out of a hat, but it is still impressive. Actually, I just figured out that the 45% is the affect while active, so the number would be about 2/5ths of that, so 294 for the Brute and 301 for the scrapper. But of course, Fire armor also adds Burn and blazing aura, so we can expect the number to be closer to those originals after adding blazing and switching SC for burn.

Anyway, the set can be beastly. And remember, those numbers can only be expected to go UP, not down, because of all the positive factors left unconsidered.

Now that we are caught up, let's change chains. Let's see what it would look like if we didn't use SC, and go RC-HB-SB-CU-SB. I am changing SB. Before, it had crushing impact and the -res proc. Now I am adding 2 regular procs, switching the purple proc to it, and the +dam percentage after musculature is 125.31%. Heavy blow also is changed, adding a regular proc. This brings total proc damage to 231.89, which translates to 27.44 dam/sec. Our total damages before anything change to

Heavy Blow- 177.90
Rib Cracker- 201.64
SB- 281.75
CU- 506.97

(sum numbers are just rounded better).

This gives us a total damage of 1450.03, in 8.45 seconds. This gives 171.64 dps. Multiplying by 1.1 for critical chance gives 188.81. Adding procs gives 216.25. Plus the extra combo damage from CU gives 231.26. Adding 14 and we have 245.26 before minus resistance.

We use the arcanaville formula for uptime and find an uptime of 37.18%. Time 20%, and we get an average contribution of 7.44. This means our resistance is 7.44+7.5+3.8=18.74. So, our total DPS is 291.2.

This requires CU to recharge before RC-SB-HB-RC finishes activating, or in a total of 6.072, which would require 311% recharge, which this build has (if SD can calculate with max targets in AAO, EA can do the same with max in Entropic Aura). This is unreasonable for non-EAs unless we add in 30% for time lord and base buffs, so this chain probably isn't going to used by everyone (and the end drain wouldn't be sustainable with energize constant and energy drain for rare equations). However, this is still nearly 300 DPS on a set that isn't made for it, which almost certainly would be over 300 with CR. If nothing else, this build would activate CR every 24 seconds and gain a +dam bonus of 27.08%, which would give 316.92 DPS.

Again, this is maximized for EA now, but other sets will likely eclipse it but a large margin. My understanding was the the combo levels benefited from FE on tanks and scrappers, but it only receives partial benefits on Brutes do to an error. While we shouldn't expect a /SD or /FE scrapper to run with this chain, if they did it be chart-topping. For instance, if we assume they switch to spiritual to run the chain, a /SD scrapper will be getting 363 DPS, and a /FE scrapper would be getting 324.22. I still expect a Stj/FE Brute to be incredible because they can better use the glad proc and use gloom instead of HB, say for a chain of Gloom-SB-RC-SB-CU or Gloom-SB-Gloom-RC-SB-CU, or RC-SB-Burn-Gloom-SB-CU.

For a sample Stj/FE Brute build I posted in the Build forum, I'll do the math here, and for now drop CR's damage and combo bonus.

Base Damage-
SB-68.4, enhanced by 91.3 (+3 HO and +5 damage IO)
RC-55.05, 92.76%
Burn-103.4,102.16% (no purple proc, so extra +dam)
Gloom- 73.41, 93.4%
CU-132.6, 93.4%
Blazing Aura- 9.18, 94.47%

In addition, we have 7 normal procs and 4 purple procs in the chain, for a total of 242.82damage. At 75% fury, we have 154% +damage.

Our total damage is: 1862.95. The time is 10.69. Therefore, our proc DPS is 22.65.

FE has an uptime of 20/47.32, or 42%. Therefore, let's say that it increases that damage by 42%*45%, or 19%. That brings total damage done to 2217.27. Therefore, our DPS is 174.24 before FE, 207.38 after.

Adding proc DPS, and we get 230.03. CU's average combo contribution is (575.98*.25)/10.69, which gives the current DPS as 243.5. Adding 14, and we get 257.98.

Here's were I think it gets sticky. You have SB's proc having 2 times to activate in one chain, and Burn's proc once. I'm guessing that I would simply multiply the formula given by two for SB, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Nevermind, caught my mistake. Should be the same, because in the chain you were going at it had 2 chances to activate.

That would give an average of 21.46% -res if I am right. Before we add that in though, I'm going to add in Blazing Aura. That would add an additional 15.99 DPS, which would also be magnified by FE, giving us 19.03 extra DPS. Our running total is now 276.52. Multiplying all that by -res gives us 335.87. This build could be trimmed though. If we don't use gloom, it raises to 339.12, though it requires more recharge. Using the gloom chain, and increasing fury to 80% and adding in CR's maximum possible +dam contribution gives 362.96, using the no gloom chain we get 368.13. Assuming impossibly that you use the no-gloom chain at 100% fury while magically keeping the maximum possible +dam contribution from CR, you get 394.77.

The 368.13 number is as good as anything can throw out currently. Of course, part of that is the magic that is /FE on brutes, but still I believe that street justice is for real.

My brain hurts now.

This thread contains WAY more math than I wanted to read this morning. I'm sure if I read all of it I would understand most of it, but I don't really want to think that hard about the damage output of a power set in a video game.

My build planning consists of: Build for survival, then hit things until they die.