Need recommendations for a new graphics card!
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-10-02 13:42 in Player Questions
Here's one of the sources that helped me (a hardware illiterate) decide what to get in my new computer.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
If you believe the marketing, it offers C.risp A.nd R.esponsive P.erformance
No, subtlety is not one of my strong points. To run all Ultra Mode options at once in 1680*1050 the starting point is around a AMD RadeonHD 4850 / Nvidia Geforce GTS 250. These have the respective theoretical throughput rates of
**I've never actually seen a 4730 for sale. On paper it has the shader and texture power to execute the OpenGL 3.0 calls in the 1280*720 resolution range. ***As far as I am aware the 4770 was only sold with a 512mb memory configuration. The card also had a 128-bit memory bus. While it's not far off from the 4850 in terms of theoretical power, the memory configuration places this cards target resolution more for 1280*720 For the Nvidia architecture these include:
*the Geforce 8800 series has the shader and texture power to execute Ultra Mode Code, but memory counts of 256mb and 512mb of local video memory really cuts into the ability of the cards to render Ultra Mode in high resolutions The list of mobile cards that can render in ultra mode is significant shorter:
Now, I have the well publicized opinion that most of the Geforce cards are rip-offs. Outside of the Geforce GTX 460, pretty much the entire street price for Nvidia cards are way over-priced compared to AMD cards with similar frame-per-second performance: http://www.pricewatch.com/video_cards/ Case in point: Nvidia wants $500 for the GTX 580. However, in realistic gameplay, the $500 msrp GTX 580 doesn't actually buy you higher resolutions, more anti-aliasing, or better texture quality... compared to a RadeonHD 6970 with an MSRP of $369, and a street price only a few bucks more. So... what are you spending nearly $125+ for? Best as I can figure, a little badge that says Nvidia. One of the problems with my opinion is that Nvidia offers huge discounts to OEM vendors in order to keep system price parity with AMD offerings. So, if you are buying a pre-built computer from a major OEM like Dell, HP, or Gateway, their computers won't have the price / performance discrepancy you'll find in the add-in card market. So it's very possible that you'll find one of the card listed here available in a pre-built system for not much off an equivelent AMD card. |
I saw that thread, but I was hoping for a more specific recommendation.
...I forgot what experience means.
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I have used in the past a GTS 250 (good for 1280x720 game rez, can do full HD but need to tweak a few settings down)|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
I saw that thread, but I was hoping for a more specific recommendation.
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A GTX460, works nicely, does run a bit hot though, so make sure that your cooling is decent
GTX560: This is my current card... i upgraded my cooling as well, as i find it hard to hit above 60c with everything up. Will get around 30fps at full HD resolution (I dual screen as standard so the game gets shoved into windowed mode), and with most "ultra mode" settings up to average i get a decent frame rate...
The one thing that i do turn off though to keep a more stable framerate is the bloom/ambient occlusion/depth of field effects...
And i keep AA to x2, that helps just enough to make things look a bit smoother, without really stressing out the graphics card.
You can get a GTX560 or an HD 6870 for around $200 on Newegg right now. Both of those cards will run Ultra Mode quite well.
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I agree with macskull. It all depends on how much you're willing to pay, but if $200 is in that range, these are good choices.
I've the HD 6870, running the just released 11.9 drivers and it's been working great for me. So if you get an and, when it retries to install drivers, skip whatever it wants and go right to www.amd.com.
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I have a 4850, runs Ultra Mode fine for the most part. I tend to turn it off or at least very low down when running big stuff, like Trials where every bugger is firing off thousands of different powers at once, but that's just because I usually play more following a patch, and following a patch there's usually less stability (this game does love crashing) so I try to limit that.
If it's the best card you can afford, you'll do okay. If you're spending more, I can only imagine you'll do better.
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I have my old 4870 HD and i love it. Its a little loud, and had i had to tweak the fan to keep the things cooled, but its mainly cuz i have my system in a cubby hole half its size, with no ventilation.
it runs basicially everyting i want out of Ultra mode, and works wonders. If i were to upgrade, I'd prolly go for the 6870, as its pretty much the best bang for the buck right now (being about 200 bucks) Just get something with more then 512 ram (my 4870 only has 512, and it gets overwhelemed sometimes)
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There's a point at which spending more money will not get you performance gains proportional to the extra money spent. I think $200 is the sweet spot for that right now - the cards in that price range aren't a lot worse than the really high-end cards which can run $400-500. Unless you want the absolute best money can buy (and if you're primarily running this game you shouldn't since this game's very poorly coded) you might as well get a low-high-end and be happy with that for a few years until something better comes into your price range.
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Originally Posted by craggy
If it's the best card you can afford, you'll do okay. If you're spending more, I can only imagine you'll do better.
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I run 2xGeforce 460 (1024 MB variant), and am very pleased with the performance that I get from my system. I run CoH on full Ultra with seldom a flicker of framerate reduction and get great performance on other, more recent games too. They're not, as others have said, unreasonably priced, either.
I'm not sure, however, honestly, what you'd get better performance out of, a single 580 or two 460s, but two 460s are still cheaper than a 580 based on a cursory look at Newegg.
Edit: As far as NVIDIA versus ATI goes, I personally have had far, far fewer problems with all of my NVIDIA cards combined over the years (probably somewhere in the neighborhood of six or seven different cards) than either one of the two systems I have used ATI cards in. This is anecdotal, sure, but I am not the only person with similar experiences, and most games in my experience also put their first effort into NVIDIA development with ATI as more of an afterthought.
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Well, not to be a fanboi, but given the experiences with ATI and Nvidia? Better writing. As in, their drivers. I had to support both... and I will never, ever, buy ATI for myself, because of all the problems I've had to deal with in the past with their products, and it *all* stemmed from their crappy drivers. NVidia just works. Period. Always has. I have never understood how ATI seems to stay valid... I really don't.| So... what are you spending nearly $125+ for? Best as I can figure, a little badge that says Nvidia. |
So yes, I spend extra on that little badge, and do it gratefully, thank you very much.
/semi-rant off.
//Figured I'd toss in my $.06 on it, but only from that one little blurb, otherwise, I'da stayed out.
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Another data point:
A not-so-accurate rule of thumb is to spend about as much on your GPU as you do your CPU.
The reasoning is that if you spend much more on your GPU you will not be able to get the full use of it because other parts of your system are the bottlenecks.
So keep in mind if your CPU isn't bleeding edge, a bleeding edge GPU won't work as well as you might think.
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NVIDIA had drivers which didn't work at all with old games (DX8.1 etc.). NVIDIA had drivers which fried their cards. Perhaps NVIDIA drivers are more compatible normally, but when it gets things wrong it does it big.|
Originally Posted by houtex
Well, not to be a fanboi, but given the experiences with ATI and Nvidia? Better writing. As in, their drivers. I had to support both... and I will never, ever, buy ATI for myself, because of all the problems I've had to deal with in the past with their products, and it *all* stemmed from their crappy drivers. NVidia just works. Period. Always has. I have never understood how ATI seems to stay valid... I really don't.
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Also when I worked as a game developer (quite a few years ago) I found a similar bug in both ATI and NVIDIA drivers. For that call ATI returned wrong results, NVIDIA froze the system.
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Originally Posted by Morgan Reed
A not-so-accurate rule of thumb is to spend about as much on your GPU as you do your CPU.
The reasoning is that if you spend much more on your GPU you will not be able to get the full use of it because other parts of your system are the bottlenecks. |
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This. While the CPU can limit your performance, you would have to go down into the neighborhood of Atom for it to actually really start being a concern. I wouldn't be surprised if the recent Celerons (why the hell does Intel still have so many lines? Just make them all iX for the consumer space!) had no trouble feeding a high end GPU for use with CoH.|
Originally Posted by General_CoH
Not completely true. GPU choice is affected by the resolution and AA level you want to run. Also, CPU these days is much less of a limitation. A Sandy Bridge Core i3 2100 would work quite well for most games.
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At least as long as you're not trying to transcode video at the same time... (my core 2 duo seems to be incapable of playing back a blue-ray movie in real time without stuttering!
)In retrospect, just copying the rip to my MBA would have been the far easier solution... but that just makes too much sense... *facepalm*
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Thanks for all the suggestions, folks! While I may be in the market for a new graphics card, the problem may in fact be the motherboard or another part. If I turn off my computer and restart it right away, there are no POST beeps, and no monitor signal. If I let it sit off for a while, it starts up normally, or so it seems. Looks like my problem may be more complicated than a simple graphics card swap.
...I forgot what experience means.
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
My graphics card apparently bit the dust overnight. Turned on my monitors this morning, and neither of them got a signal from my computer. I'd been seeing some weird graphics blips over the last couple of weeks, so it looks like the card finally failed.
So, I'm looking for recommendations for a new graphics card. I'd like to be able to run Ultra Mode at 30 fps with most of the settings turned on, and I'm treating this as my early XMas present, so I'm willing to spend a little money to get something good. I do run my system with 2 monitors, and bonus points if the card also has an HDMI port, as I'd love to be able to hook it up to my TV for streaming movies. Suggestions? |
CoH Helper dump please? So we know what your current system specs are?
Also, any preference for ATI or nVidia?
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
Thanks for all the suggestions, folks! While I may be in the market for a new graphics card, the problem may in fact be the motherboard or another part. If I turn off my computer and restart it right away, there are no POST beeps, and no monitor signal. If I let it sit off for a while, it starts up normally, or so it seems. Looks like my problem may be more complicated than a simple graphics card swap.
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Ow. Looks like you may be in for a dive into a new computer (see the last guide in my sig).
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I don't really have a preference, but I've always used nVidia, so I'm a bit more comfortable with them. Here's the dump from my system right now:|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
CoH Helper dump please? So we know what your current system specs are?
Also, any preference for ATI or nVidia? |
---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.2.0.2---
DxDiag gathered at October 3, 2011 14:36 (-04:00)
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.101209-1647)
System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
System Model: MS-7528
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Central Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7400 @ 2.80GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 3072MB
.Net Memory Report: 2105MB out of 3071MB available
Page File: 3918MB (1042MB currently in use)
C Drive: (ST3250823A) 42166MB out of 119232MB (35%) free
D Drive: (ST3250823A) 118718MB out of 119232MB (99%) free
E Drive: (Hitachi HDP725050GLA360) 356277MB out of 425000MB (83%) free
F Drive: (HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH22NS40) zero-size drive
G Drive: (FgF CDDVD+tech-200x SCSI CdRom Device) zero-size drive
Windows directory location: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DirectX Diag version: 5.03.2600.5512 (32-bit version)
Display Notes: No problems found.
No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor's Max Resolution: 1600,1200
Video Device Name: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
Manufacturer / Chip: NVIDIA / GeForce 8600 GT
Video Memory: 512.0 MB
Driver Version: 6.14.0011.7519
Driver Date: 5/16/2008 2:01:00 PM
Driver Language: English
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor's Max Resolution: 1600,1200
Video Device Name: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
Manufacturer / Chip: NVIDIA / GeForce 8600 GT
Video Memory: 512.0 MB
Driver Version: 6.14.0011.7519
Driver Date: 5/16/2008 2:01:00 PM
Driver Language: English
Sound Device Description: Realtek HD Audio output
Driver File: RtkHDAud.sys
Driver Version: 5.10.0000.5268
Driver Date: 6/13/2006 11:04:12 PM
WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: MS-7528
Motherboard Version: 1.0
BIOS Manufacturer: American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS Name: Default System BIOS
BIOS Version: 7528MS - 20081020
BIOS Release: 20081020000000.000000+000
Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1680x1050
3D Resolution: 1680x1050 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: Yes
Maximized: No
Screen Position: 0, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: Yes
Physics Quality: Medium
Maximum Particles: 50000
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No
Anti-aliasing: Off
Anisotropic Filtering: 4x
Texture LOD Bias: Smooth
Water Effects: Medium quality
Bloom: 1.000 (turned on)
Depth of Field Enabled: Yes
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: Yes
Shader Detail: Medium?
World Texture Level: Very High
Character Texture Level: High
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 1.000
Entity Detail Level: 1.000
Shadows Enabled: Yes
Shadow Mode: Stencil shadows
Shadow Map Shader: Unknown (0)
Environmental Reflections: Disabled
Advanced Occlusion Settings: No
Ambient Occlusion: Off
Occlusion Strength: Off
Blur: Bilateral
Ambient Resolution: Performance
Gamma Correction: 1.000
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: Yes
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: No
Close Suppression Range: 3.000
Show Advertisements: Yes
Audio Mode: Compatiblity
3D Audio: No
FX Sound Volume: 0.302
Music Sound Volume: 0.297
Show Advanced Graphics Options: No
Overall Graphics Quality: 0.500
Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
Transfer Rate: 1037099 bytes/second
Current Game Version: 1950.201102120907.1
Installation Directory: C:\Program Files\City of Heroes
Mod files in the Data directory
No modifications found
...I forgot what experience means.
I'm not the biggest expert around but a Core 2 Duo should be fine for running CoH.
Here is $100 card that should let you play on ultra mode just fine. There are quite a few GT440s that are a little cheaper but the GTX 260 out-performs them for $20 more.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125391
Your 2.8ghz processor shouldn't bottleneck that card.
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Originally Posted by Morgan Reed
A not-so-accurate rule of thumb is to spend about as much on your GPU as you do your CPU.
The reasoning is that if you spend much more on your GPU you will not be able to get the full use of it because other parts of your system are the bottlenecks. |
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Originally Posted by General_CoH
Not completely true. GPU choice is affected by the resolution and AA level you want to run. Also, CPU these days is much less of a limitation. A Sandy Bridge Core i3 2100 would work quite well for most games.
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Who would have thought? :-P
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
System Model: MS-7528 Video Device Name: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT Manufacturer / Chip: NVIDIA / GeForce 8600 GT Video Memory: 512.0 MB |
While Newegg isn't the end all be all of computer supplies, it does have a tendency to show stocking trends.
It might be time to consider a new computer upgrade.
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More so that it's pretty much completely rubbish. Long as you buy something above the bottom tier CPUs (I'm including laptop/netbook processors in this!), you'll be completely fine. A better rule of thumb would be "Don't buy atom" (and whatever the AMD equivalent is now called, forget whether it was Llano or if that was the lower mid range or blah blah blah).
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Originally Posted by Morgan Reed
So what you are telling me is the listed "not-so-accurate" rule of thumb is... "not-so-accurate?"
Who would have thought? :-P |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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So, by that rule of thumb, a nVidia GeForce 8800 Ultra could work just fine with a Pentium 4?
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
More so that it's pretty much completely rubbish. Long as you buy something above the bottom tier CPUs (I'm including laptop/netbook processors in this!), you'll be completely fine. A better rule of thumb would be "Don't buy atom" (and whatever the AMD equivalent is now called, forget whether it was Llano or if that was the lower mid range or blah blah blah).
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Making a facetious comment that completely ignores Kit's qualifier ("above the bottom tier CPUs" - Pentium 4 is solidly in bottom tier these days) doesn't help your side of the discussion. :/
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Pentium 4 is not available to buy these days, so it's not relevant to the argument.
I think that a rule such as "any $80+ CPU is good enough" is better than the "not-so-accurate" rule mentioned.
Regarding the AMD CPU's, Llano should be good enough. It would be interesting to know if Llano integrated graphics can run Ultra mode (probably not with all options on). AMD's Atom stuff is the C and E families (C-50, C-60, E-350, E-450, etc.). Still, I have an E-350 laptop and it can run CoH at playable (to me) frame rates even at 1080p, using its integrated graphics, with pretty low options, but not bottomed out. It won't run Ultra, of course.
PCIE 2.0 cards should work in a PCIEx16 slot, just at lower speeds. Or at least thats what my search-fu tells me.
My graphics card apparently bit the dust overnight. Turned on my monitors this morning, and neither of them got a signal from my computer. I'd been seeing some weird graphics blips over the last couple of weeks, so it looks like the card finally failed.
So, I'm looking for recommendations for a new graphics card. I'd like to be able to run Ultra Mode at 30 fps with most of the settings turned on, and I'm treating this as my early XMas present, so I'm willing to spend a little money to get something good. I do run my system with 2 monitors, and bonus points if the card also has an HDMI port, as I'd love to be able to hook it up to my TV for streaming movies.
Suggestions?