I am impressed and confused

So i finally got my crab up to level 47, so i could finally fit IO's on him. When i was finished i had a crab with all defense (except toxic) soft capped to 45% or more! Also, my resistances ranged from 40's to 60's (except psi, go figure)!

So why do i not see many SoA when i'm playing? I haven't rolled a huntsman or a bane; are they any good? Cause i'm pretty much a walking tank shooting AoE attacks everywhere

Took me nearly four years to start making one and I keep asking myself why I waited so long...

I'm going to guess a few reasons you don't see more:

*Crab-pack limits creativity for look. Certainly not an issue for game-play, but this matters to some people

*Endurance leveling up is not easy. I used to pray for a kin when joining a team, but with set bonuses and cardiac, it's a complete non-issue now for me. Still, absent PL-ing, it's a long way to get to that point.

*Not really a farmer. Sure you can farm, but with the reliance on cones, positioning is pretty key and mobs that move to melee can screw this up.

I don't know really. I'm with the OP 100%. I think of mine as a WW2 battleship, delivering massive splash damage from afar and able to take the return fire.

As for Banes and Huntsmen, I don't have significant hands-on experience with either, I have 0 hours with a Huntsman. The Bane's most powerful attacks are melee, so it's definitely a significantly different playstyle from a Crab. There are those that espouse the Huntsman build, but it seems to me the main advantage over Crab is they're not stuck with the crab-pack.

My crab is hands down my favorite character in all of this game. He exemplars well, he blasts well, he can even tank if necessary. LOVE him!

Huntsman can have more ST offense than crabs. Crabs can have more AoE. However, while the crab does get additional attacks, a large amount of AoE can come from Patrons as well, once those are figured in, the AoE still favors the crab, but by a smaller margin. The more the crab pushes his AoE advantage, the more his ST tends to suffer. The more the huntsman pushes his ST advantage, the more his AoE suffers.

Defensively, the huntsman can survive 90% or 95% of what the crab can, but does have to watch the battlefield more closely and carefully to do so.

I also find it a bit more difficult and expensive to soft-cap the Crab, especially the average crab build that puts an emphasis on (ranged) AoEs.

In the end, the huntsman takes down hard targets faster while still chewing through the hordes at a good speed. If you play +4x8 No Bosses No AVs, then You'll want the crab, hands down, no contest. If you play +4x8 With Bosses, EBs, and AVs, you'll want the Huntsman, unless it's Cheat DE, Carnies, or a few other extra hard targets that require more defense. When you team with others, you'll probably mostly want the huntsman in order to further leverage those offensive multipliers, with the team making up for the small survivability and AoE losses; unless the rest of the team are level 20 or below, AE Babies, door sitters, etc. that contribute to neither survivability nor AoE offense.

If you're me, that means, dual builds using primarily the Huntsman, then using the crab as needed.

If you typically solo +4x8 no bosses no AVs and typically get poor teams that do little to contribute to survivability, or contribute mostly melee and very little AoE, then you end up the opposite of myself and go, Dual Builds using primarily the crab, then using the huntsman when permitted.

I will admit, when I'm PuG-ing, I'm 9 times out of 10 in Crab form. When I'm in Coalition, I'm 9 times out of 10 in Huntsman form. Solo, I'm 3 out of 4 times in Huntsman form. If I wasn't in a pretty good Coalition, that would change dramatically.

IMO i think its the pre lvl 24 game, lvl 24 on VEAT is when your forced to respec, so everything you did pre lvl 24 is kinda moot since your going to respec regardless AND you get 2 branches opening up to you that werent available before

when most poeple ask me about lvling VEATs i usually say "I PL'd to lvl 24 because of the forced respec"

My first three City of Heroes characters were Tankers, but I really found the melee combat rather limited and boring. I found that other archetypes with buffs, pets, ranged attacks, etc. were just a lot more fun. However, many years later, I discovered that a Crab Spider is really what I was looking for along along... a non-boring Tank. Admittedly, my Crab will not outperform an actual Tanker or Brute in melee, but you get a lot of other fun abilities that more than make up for it, IMO.
As to why they are not more common... I personally like hybrid characters with a lot of varied capabilities, but for people who want to achieve perfection in a single area (often DPS, but could be lockdown, survivability or even pets) there are specialists that are more capable than VEATs.

Having played both a Huntsman and a Crab to incarnate levels, I find that they have a very similar feel, playwise. They both offer great team buffs to defense, damage, and to hit. They both have good AoE damage, though the Crab pulls a bit ahead in that the Crab-version cones tend to be larger and do more exotic damage. Crabs get more pets and a Dull Pain-like heal and hp buff. The Huntsman keeps a non-redrawing AoE immobilize, has a decent ST debuff from the Bane pool, and generally has a more "open" build.

The difference for me is that the Crab has the backpack, and the Huntsman has a gun.

I suspect that the reason VEATs aren't more popular has to do with people just not finding the concept for them. VEATs aren't quite as easy as other ATs to "fit" any kind of concept to.

I just finished up my Huntsman.

I went Range Cap Hover blaster with Perma Pets and the PPP pet as well. Before getting the Incarnates I was a bit apprehensive because I just wasn't sure how the pets were going to fair against some mobs. As time went on I really seen the pets were very sturdy. I then went Musculature Alpha which helped out some more. I of course went with the Arachnos for lore just too keep with the theme. I then decided on Barrier to keep the pets capped and my resistances also capped. End result now I'm soloing 4/8 against Malta with my basic pets and barrier. I mean seriously Malta on 4/8 solo.

What I noticed though your limited to 3 aoe attacks and 2 singles from your primary they do a lot of damage compare to say a AR blaster. Having Double maneuvers and assault is nothing to complain about as well.

Further if you wanted you could have a Fully positional defense cap Hunstman as well without the pets. Again another good set up.

I of course have a crab full defense cap with no pets and I have a build based off the huntsman for the crab which is hover crab range cap with perma pets. The cool thing there is Crabs get one more pet then Hunstman so you can end up with tons of pets with the crab. Further something about crabs hovering they look a bit spooky with the claws shaking back and forth.

I've only recently played a VEAT, and in this case a Bane as I've always been more single target than AoE.

What mainly drew me to'im was that I had just leveled a Claws/Elec Stalker and I was in the stealthy melee mentality. Also, after lookin' at Mids, I wanted both Shatter and Shatter Armor. And now after levelin' to 50(+3) and IOin'im out, I was very impressed and he is by far one o' my favorite characters to play in terms o' straight ST damage.

One thing that minorly disappointed me was that with the changes to Patron Pools bein' available earlier that Shatter Armor was still past 40 at 41, and I was hopin' to at least have it when exemplared to 35. Oh well.

Oh, on a side note about concerns, I had one about redraw between normal Mace attacks and the PPP Mace attacks, and there isn't any, which was a great bonus to have.

Additionally, it's like buyin' a new car. Once you play a certain AT or powerset, you start to notice those exact ones around more often. And I think I've noticed'em more what with the Underground Trial bein' out, and havin' double Tactics rockin' to reduce the Confuse effect in the last room. Could just be me, though.

my Huntsman is my favorite toon right now, teamed and solo. Melee/ranged/aoe softcap, perma-reinforcements, cardiac/rebirth/reactive/arachnos lore. He *feels* like a sleek killer, spitting a physically impossible amount of bullets. The gun animations are very fast, generally faster than crab, and it's beautiful. I also really enjoy the stealth and extra debuff from the bane tree.

Ive never done crab, and have a baby one in the works; it'll be great!

Huntsman (pre- and post- 24 branch leveling build)

Post #6 in that thread has builds that benefit from the hindsight of actually leveling and playing a Huntsman to 50. Leggs ... my Huntswoman ... is essentially unchanged from the build in Post #6, and still *quite* successful when soloing or in TF/SF/League scenarios, and fares far better than most when Exemplared/Malefactored down to play low level content. One thing that does surprise my teammates is that I've got the Crab Backpack (due to deliberately choosing an alternate build using Crab Powers, which I basically never switch to), but all of my attacks are through the Arachnos Rifle ... which some people find, peculiar. I just stand ankle deep in brass casings and mow down everything in range ... grinning like an idiot the whole time.

It's also ... amusing ... to see what happens to over-ambitious teammates on TFs/SFs when they try to break away from my aura range. Suddenly they go from untouchable to shame/dirtfaced in a hurry ... and after they Wakie, they make sure to orbit around wherever I am so as to stay within my auras.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Here's my current Huntsman build, for comparison. Redlynne, i credit your guides as an incredible resource to start from; I love your Heavy Burst slotting, highly recommended.

I used tough/weave to get some extra s/l res (a noticable help), and to be able to devote more set bonuses to recharge and less to defense. Just one purp set in the immob.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlynne I just stand ankle deep in brass casings and mow down everything in range ... grinning like an idiot the whole time.

YESSSSSSS.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.951
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Single Shot -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(9), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Achilles-ResDeb%(42)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(46)
Level 2: Burst -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(15), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), LdyGrey-%Dam(48)
Level 4: Combat Training: Defensive -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Heavy Burst -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(19), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(19), HO:Centri(21), HO:Centri(21), LdyGrey-%Dam(46)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(11)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(23), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Posi-Dam%(25), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Wide Area Web Grenade -- GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(37), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(37), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(40), GravAnch-Hold%(42)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dam%(29), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), FrcFbk-Rechg%(40)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(34), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Build%(37)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 26: Bayonet -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(33), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(42)
Level 28: Surveillance -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(43), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(43), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 30: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Call Reinforcements -- ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 41: Boxing -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), TtmC'tng-ResDam(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def(48), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(50), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(3), P'Shift-End%(3), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(5)
------------

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I'll add that his secondary build is a full melee Bane with no pets, Web Envelope, Shatter armor, double Maneuvers and Assault, and just 1 gun attack: Venom Grenade, because it's just Too Good.

I find that the melee Bane is generally at more risk for having to go into melee, with less aoe, and slower animating attacks. That said, it's quite effective even against large groups (webnade figures in largely for me in those situations, to stop runners), and i honestly feel sorry for any boss I target. Survellance + build up + cloaked Shatter + Shatter Armor + Venom 'Nade + Poisonous Ray is just so.......satisfying, hehehe.

Took me years before actually trying out SoA and I felt like such an IDIOT for wasting so much time. My crab is my favorite character and is my go-to for any situation.

I'm using a high-recharge leadership-stacked hover crab with gun attacks and 3 perma-spider pets. You're basically taking all the great parts of a crab and all the great parts of a huntsman and creating a 'lol god-mode' SoA. Not really sure why I don't see more of these around.

My main is a Crab, and I LOVE playing as her. Part of it is due to the fact that the build I currently have on live is softcapped to everything even-con in normal content, with Energy/Negative being her lowest defenses at 45%. This is a build that currently has no purple sets in it, though there are two sets planned for later on. It also has no patron pools and depends on normal pool power stacking to hit that softcap rather than a majority of IO bonuses. Consequentially she runs nine toggles constantly. TT:M, M, TT:A, A, TT:L, Fort, Weave, CJ, and Hover. She also has Nerve for the extra +def and the two 3% uniques. Endurance issues were solved with Ageless, a minor amount of extra defense in the form of Diamagnetic interface...

I have a Bane secondary build on her, just SO's for now, and it is obviously significantly squishier since banes have significantly lower resistances. It's also a playstyle that I don't particularly enjoy for the character. I'm used to playing Stygian Variolus in a certain way, and I actually enjoy it the rare times she faceplants on her Crab build, because that just means that I'm actually getting a challenge out of the content after making this unhittable death machine.

I'm currently fiddling with her third build to see if I can find something interesting that I'll like that feels unique compared to the other two. This build might see me dragging her BACK redside just to unlock patrons for Leviathan.

One of the best things about the Veats is that you can make them 3 different ways, with a load of options after that. A lot of other ATs and builds have pretty obvious powers to get, stay away from, and pool powers to look for.

I have a Soldier with crab/bane builds, and it is great for switching out in incarnate trials. One thing that does annoy me is that the toon began as a bane, I made the crab secondary build, and got stuck with the legs.

I'm loving my SoA, I have her specced to softcap, no problem, mass recharge, a travel power to get around, she deals good DPS and she is pretty/strong.

My only issue with her is the amount of endurance she needs to live. Once the endurance goes, her buffs go and she loses her softcap. Splat.

Having just gotten my Crab to level 29, I am also surprised that there are so few SoA's given how good he is.

Reasons not to play an SoA
1. Forced backstory. I generally ignore it, but character concept is important to a lot of people and being forced into the Arachnos backstory is limiting
2. Forced costume at start. Not a big deal since you can get a different one at 10, but people don't really know that.
3. Crab backpack limits look of character. In CoH look is very important.

but the main reason I think is that there is no real "concept" behind them that people can imagine. Stone tanker - stone, take damage. Fire blaster - fire, do damage. But SoA's are really many different AT's linked together, and they are not explained in a way that player's grasp.

I think you would see a lot more SoA's if they officially broke them into different AT's - or at least listed them as such when choosing your AT in the character generator.

Crab - ranged damage and buff
Bane - melee damage and buff
etc