Now there's an idea .. while we are at it why bother with the nasty requirement to actually find some way, even if its sqaushing things repeatedly in AE, to avoid leveling and just let you buy your way to level 50 as well.
In one afternoon with your credit card in hand you could easily fill 36 or 48 slots on a server with 50 (+3) that had every power at tier 4.
{sarcasm fully and completely intended in the above paragraphs}
Is there any part of the game you do enjoy. ... if not then exactly why are you so willing to blow cold hard, REAL, cash to avoid playing it. Just go find a game you do like!
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
I don't enjoy the incarnate trials. Just something I don't like, so I resolved myself that I wouldn't have those nifty incarnate powers after the alpha slot. Even though I don't like the trials, and don't do them, I don't agree with buying your way into the powers. It makes all the grinding and work that those that have gotten the powers trivial.
No one pays attention to me, cause I listen to the voices in my head.
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Originally Posted by Psycho_Sarah
I don't enjoy the incarnate trials. Just something I don't like, so I resolved myself that I wouldn't have those nifty incarnate powers after the alpha slot. Even though I don't like the trials, and don't do them, I don't agree with buying your way into the powers. It makes all the grinding and work that those that have gotten the powers trivial.
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Well said. I'm glad I waited until after you'd posted before trying to say anything.
This pretty much covers my thoughts. While I wish there was a truly viable solo path for Incarnate powers, I'd hate the idea of just being able to buy into the powers.
I have too many friends that have worked too hard getting what was needed for several of their characters to see it invalidated by something as ridiculous as allowing players to purchase them.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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/seconded. |
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
This pretty much covers my thoughts. While I wish there was a truly viable solo path for Incarnate powers, I'd hate the idea of just being able to buy into the powers.
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There needs to be a solo Incarnate path. I'm enjoying (ab)using the first Signature arc for this, really - but they make me REALLY want a true Solo/Small Team path, and yesterday.
But buying this? No.
I quite like the iTrials however I think there should be a solo friendly path.
However to play devil's advocate, if you are not doing the trials why do you want the Incarnate abilities? They pretty much trample over normal content.
I would also say that it is possible to get the the first level of Alpha abilities through the use of Shards. Thats how I usually build my first Aplha slot. Of course if you are willing to team you generally pick up Shards much faster. So if you like teaming but its just the Incarnate trials you don't like then its more of an option.
Unlocking new slots is of course, only practical through the iTrials. But you only need do 3 to unlock a new slot.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Pretty much a horrid idea.|
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
Anyways it's pretty straight forward put Incarnate Threads and Shards on the Paragon Market. Looking forward to what yall think! Is this a good idea, I think its great Hope you guys do too!
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Powers, especially ones as powerful as the Incarnate ones, should NEVER be purchasable. Period.
Awful, awful, AWFUL idea.
While some powers can be purchased (Beam Rifle) they still have to be EARNED after purchase. Skipping the earning stage is pointless. If you don't want to play the game, don't play the game.
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They could however make the incarnate trials more interesting to the less amused, in all fairness its not a good idea it would take away that great feeling of earning them, if you want a game where everything is easy and takes little time and effort then i suggest world of warcraft
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Originally Posted by Emperor_Justin
Awful, awful, AWFUL idea.
While some powers can be purchased (Beam Rifle) they still have to be EARNED after purchase. Skipping the earning stage is pointless. If you don't want to play the game, don't play the game. |
Well having more variety of Trials, or higher rewards without stupid cooldowns would help to advance better.
Also we still need a solo path worthy.
But I agree, we should not be able to buy this.
I rather see primary and secondary archetype locked respecs before this.
A somewhat slower solo path is a good idea, since teams aren't always available, or you may want to do a trial nobody else does.
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Because I may not always want to team. |
Originally Posted by Jagged
However to play devil's advocate, if you are not doing the trials why do you want the Incarnate abilities? They pretty much trample over normal content.
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Because I may not always want to team with 500 of my closest friends, their friends, the guy that lives down the block from them, some guy they bumped into while walking to their car, etc. to run the blasted trial.
Because I'd like something with more story than "Well like cole. Well bad. Kill stuff" that we have in the trials now.
Because some people are completionists, as 7+ years of badging should make obvious.
Because there are powers that would "fit" a character in the trials.
Because there's no guarantee of NOT having an important part of the story come afterward that you *really* should have incarnate abilities for, or that will penalize you to ridiculous lengths if you don't have them set/slotted (hi Tin Mage II/Apex.)
Because I bloody well want to have them but am bored to death with the exact... same... trials.... over... and... over... and... over... and... over.... which even just running OCCASIONALLY instead of the dev-mandated 20X a day grind still leaves me burnt out on.
Fair enough? I can come up with even MORE reasons if you still don't "Get" why people would want to get the powers without the blasted trials.
(Note: most of the irritation in here is directed at the trials, especially at them being the only way to realistically get this stuff unlocked.)
Having other ways to unlock incarnate slots is fine and great and I agree.
Paying cash money to do that is not idea. It's at the lowest point of the valley of terrible ideas.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Because I may not always want to team.
Because I may not always want to team with 500 of my closest friends, their friends, the guy that lives down the block from them, some guy they bumped into while walking to their car, etc. to run the blasted trial. Because there are powers that would "fit" a character in the trials. Because there's no guarantee of NOT having an important part of the story come afterward that you *really* should have incarnate abilities for, or that will penalize you to ridiculous lengths if you don't have them set/slotted (hi Tin Mage II/Apex.) Because I bloody well want to have them but am bored to death with the exact... same... trials.... over... and... over... and... over... and... over.... which even just running OCCASIONALLY instead of the dev-mandated 20X a day grind still leaves me burnt out on. (Note: most of the irritation in here is directed at the trials, especially at them being the only way to realistically get this stuff unlocked.) |
I emphatically agree with these particular reasons from Bill's list.
Just have threads drop in normal content.
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Apparently you have better things to do than to actually play the game. It is what it is. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I gotta better things to do ya know!
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Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
Just have threads drop in normal content.
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While that sounds good it realy doesn't help. I have been in favor of contacts that allow players to solo or make small teams for a while. These missions would drop threads and components at a slower rate than the trials , of course, but would allow players to gather what they need to open and enhance powers.
Just dropping a few threads here and there would take ages! Let's look at what is involved in opening and slotting a single power..
To open Judgement without doing trials and getting IXP you need to purchase the xp. It requires 30 threads and 30 million in influence.
To slot with a tier one requires three common components at a cost of 20 threads each .. total 60 threads
To slot to tier two requires two common (40 threads) and one uncommon (60 threads) component... Total cost 100 threads
To slot to tier 3 requires two more commons(40 threads) and a rare component. To craft a rare you need all four uncommon components (total cost 240 threads).
Now the same holds true for opening Interface but to open Destiny or Lore requires an additional 15 threads .. 45 total to buy the required IXP.
So just to open and slot one power to tier three requires a total of 470 threads and that is just the lower level powers NOT the ones that actually grant level shifts during trials. I have completed BAFs and had a total of 5 more threads than when i began. The drop rate for a 24 man league is NOT as fast as many think. What allows a player to slot faster is the Astral and Empyrean merit drops. On a standard BAF where we pull the AVs to the north wall and use chokes to contain prisoners .. I can leave with 6 astrals (5 if a prisoner escapes) and 1 Empyrean. That equals 44 threads.. 4 for each astral and 20 for the emp. On a basic Lambda I can leave with 3 or 4 astrals (depends on if we sync up once while gathering glowies) and an additional empyrean for another 36. Running two trials that took a total of perhaps 1 hour to complete.. I earned 80 threads by cashing in merits.. I may have earned an added 8 or 10 during the actual battle.
Now try to relate that to someone soloing and getting NO astral or empyrean merits and their drop rate is 1/24th of what I was getting doing trials. You can see it simply isn't a good option.. It could take a players months just to earn enough threads to open one power and then even longer just to slot it to tier one.
I think we may be seeing a solution with the new VIP signature arcs. When I completed one the other day I had as possible rewards the option to take an astral merit or 10 threads. Now knowing the values I took the threads.. an astral converts to 4 threads so why take 4 when i can get 10. LOL What they need to do is add more contacts with arcs and allow a random component drop as a reward for completing a mission and an astral or even an emp for completing the arc. Then players that don't enjoy the trials have a way to gain the powers of the incarnate.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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You're right, Wendy.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
l
While that sounds good it realy doesn't help. I have been in favor of contacts that allow players to solo or make small teams for a while. These missions would drop threads and components at a slower rate than the trials , of course, but would allow players to gather what they need to open and enhance powers. Just dropping a few threads here and there would take ages! Let's look at what is involved in opening and slotting a single power.. To open Judgement without doing trials and getting IXP you need to purchase the xp. It requires 30 threads and 30 million in influence. To slot with a tier one requires three common components at a cost of 20 threads each .. total 60 threads To slot to tier two requires two common (40 threads) and one uncommon (60 threads) component... Total cost 100 threads To slot to tier 3 requires two more commons(40 threads) and a rare component. To craft a rare you need all four uncommon components (total cost 240 threads). Now the same holds true for opening Interface but to open Destiny or Lore requires an additional 15 threads .. 45 total to buy the required IXP. So just to open and slot one power to tier three requires a total of 470 threads and that is just the lower level powers NOT the ones that actually grant level shifts during trials. I have completed BAFs and had a total of 5 more threads than when i began. The drop rate for a 24 man league is NOT as fast as many think. What allows a player to slot faster is the Astral and Empyrean merit drops. On a standard BAF where we pull the AVs to the north wall and use chokes to contain prisoners .. I can leave with 6 astrals (5 if a prisoner escapes) and 1 Empyrean. That equals 44 threads.. 4 for each astral and 20 for the emp. On a basic Lambda I can leave with 3 or 4 astrals (depends on if we sync up once while gathering glowies) and an additional empyrean for another 36. Running two trials that took a total of perhaps 1 hour to complete.. I earned 80 threads by cashing in merits.. I may have earned an added 8 or 10 during the actual battle. Now try to relate that to someone soloing and getting NO astral or empyrean merits and their drop rate is 1/24th of what I was getting doing trials. You can see it simply isn't a good option.. It could take a players months just to earn enough threads to open one power and then even longer just to slot it to tier one. I think we may be seeing a solution with the new VIP signature arcs. When I completed one the other day I had as possible rewards the option to take an astral merit or 10 threads. Now knowing the values I took the threads.. an astral converts to 4 threads so why take 4 when i can get 10. LOL What they need to do is add more contacts with arcs and allow a random component drop as a reward for completing a mission and an astral or even an emp for completing the arc. Then players that don't enjoy the trials have a way to gain the powers of the incarnate. |
But to my way of thinking, that just means that the Incarnate components are just ridiculously over-priced.
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Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
You're right, Wendy.
But to my way of thinking, that just means that the Incarnate components are just ridiculously over-priced. |
Heheh like so many other things in game! I agree
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
<QR>
Oh, "Pay to Win". No thanks. Any developer in his or her right mind would never do this.
Just play. Don't like the trials? Do just enough to earn rare components you need. The play the WST after that. You'll have a Tier 3 in all slots and really, really, truly you don't get that much more going to T4.
The 'grind' is self-imposed.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Is there a particular reason for the "somewhat slower" qualification there? I'm not clear on why not wanting to team up to do this stuff necessitates a time penalty.
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Originally Posted by Emperor_Justin
A somewhat slower solo path is a good idea, since teams aren't always available, or you may want to do a trial nobody else does.
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Sure. Teams have a time penalty built in.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Is there a particular reason for the "somewhat slower" qualification there?
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| I'm not clear on why not wanting to team up to do this stuff necessitates a time penalty. |
Solo you control many more of the variables that can make teams/leagues difficult and time-consuming. To put some real world examples on this, I've done ITFs that have taken 16 min. I've also done ITFs that have taken 3 hours. My skill level didn't change and I was using the same character in both instances. The difference was my team. The 16 one was filled with vets with perfectly tailored IO builds (this was PRE-INCARNATES) who all had played together before. Most of those folks could probably solo the TF post-Incarnates. The 3-hour was a good team of folks who just had weaker builds, and many hadn't done the ITF 200 times. They made mistakes, died a lot more and worst of all killed Romi with his fluffies out of range. Our DPS took a long time to take down those darn things.
So to answer your question, yes, there is a very good reason teaming is allowed to generate rewards faster than soloing in the general case.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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"I might get saddled with a crap team. Ergo, you get to be held up as if you had."|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
So to answer your question, yes, there is a very good reason teaming is allowed to generate rewards faster than soloing in the general case.
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... Yeah, not buying in, sorry.
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No. You actually get to move slower! |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
"I might get saddled with a crap team. Ergo, you get to be held up as if you had."
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| ... Yeah, not buying in, sorry. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Shards too. I'm sure they could jack up the prices on these and make that chedder. I'd rather pay 20 bucks to Incarnate my character out instead of grinding all night and day, I gotta better things to do ya know!
Anyways it's pretty straight forward put Incarnate Threads and Shards on the Paragon Market. Looking forward to what yall think! Is this a good idea, I think its great Hope you guys do too!