How much knockback protection is enough?

I know most melee defense ATs get mag 10 protection and I wanted to match that, but I noticed Acrobatics gives 9, and the KB protection IOs are 4 per IO. I'm a bit tight on both slots and powers (and SJ isn't my travel power, though I will take CJ), but I will make room for KB protection, so I was wondering what's the best way to go:
-2 KB IOs
-Acrobatics
-3 KB IOs / Acrobatics + 1 KB IO

Basically is mag 8 protection enough? 9? What are some examples where I'll be flying backward with 8/9 but a regular melee-er with mag 10 protection will still be standing up?

First of all, the answer changes depending on whether you're talking about PvE or PvP - the number you want in PvP is much higher because players can slot their powers.

The melee defense ATs that get mag 10 protection also almost always get 10,000% resistance to KB as well, meaning that even 1 point would be sufficient for them.

Grounded, in Electric Armor, provides just under 16 points of KB protection (and no resistance) at level 50, as long as you're on the ground. That's generally enough in PvE content with very few exceptions.

At mag 8, you'll be fine for most everything but things like Fake Nemesis will be able to send you flying for a short distance. I forget the exact mag of their Nemesis Staff attack but level differences will make it more powerful in any case. My SS/FA Brute uses 3 -KB IOs for mag 12 protection and doesn't run into problems. My ranged characters usually just slot a single -KB IO and that's more than enough most of the time - far more attacks that do KB are set to be around or under mag 1 than not, so that will stop most of the KB all by itself. It's just that the ones that are higher are generally much higher - in the just over 4 to just under 8 range for "high KB", and then the 12-19 range for "extreme KB".

In PvP, I think the "magic number" is 42 due to diminishing returns (without it, some attacks can go higher than that).

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Also, if you slot one standard lvl 35 KB IO in Acrobatics, it will push the protection over 10 as a portion of the kb protection is enhanceable. Won't do you much for the end cost.

General opinion: 4 is enough for over 50% of the content. IF you want to cover a greater portion, such as Nemesis staff, or hami blasts you want over 10. On a tank I'd want 10+ kb protection. If you were going with KB IO's like Steadfast or Karma, I'd recommend getting three of them in your build for a total of 12 kb protection.

On a side note, I'm not a huge fan of Acrobatics. I don't believe the end cost for what it gives you is worth it. But as always, ymmv.

lol

Force Bolt is a PITA but it's rare to see anyone play force field in pvp these days. To get up to that level of protection just for that one attack would most likely do more bad than good for your build when you could be using those slots for better bonuses.

My Fire/Kin has 20pts of KB protection.

Overkill? Probably.

But as they say... "There's no kill like overkill!"

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I thought it was "there is no overkill only kill or don't kill". =) But the concept is bang on.

I can say that I have a fire armor with 7 points of -kb from 1 IO and 3 pieces of fury of the glad set. Definitely not enough. I spend a lot of time on the ground and it's not just Fake Nems.

With -KB IOs, the usual advice I hear and give is to slot either one or three -KB IOs. One IO protects you from most knockback; three protects you from most of what is left; but there's little or nothing that hits with more KB than one IO can handle but that two IOs can.

Ummmm...

Hover!

For PvP, I recommend either:

• 4 points, enough to keep every Tom, Dick and Harry of villainy from knocking you on your rump. You'll still get knocked around some times, but it will be far fewer foes doing it.
• 12 points, enough to keep almost anything from knocking you down. A few things will still do it if you fight them at +levels. (I need to check, but I think a +4 Fake Nemesis will still knock you back.)

What I've always heard is, and it's being echoed here, get at least four, and if you go higher get 12. If it can knock you at 12, it's going to knock you regardless.

A single KB IO or -KB set bonus is enough to cover the vast majority of the game's KB effects. However, they can still stack and there are some very few attacks used by enemies that will significantly exceed that single IO or bonus. If you want to beat them, I believe you need 16pts.

As for PVP, Force Bolt and Power Thrust are the most common and hardest-hitting KB powers. The latter is a lot more common than the former, thanks to the Psi/EM hordes. Not sure how much diminishing returns hits either, but they enhance to over 51mag (FB) and 45mag (PT) before DR.

Been two places where I've run into 'issues' with knockback beyond things already noted. As with most posters particularly those with non-melee/PvP concerns I generally grab 4 pts worth of protection. My Emp/Sonic/Elec Incarnate build being the sole exception having 12 pts currently.

1) On an /Electric Armor scrapper (no resistance, 4 pts kb protection at that time) up level Cabal Stormy bosses (in Croatoa) primarily with Gale as I recall and

2) Tin Mage TF ... the Malta AV Director 11 and his way happy trip mine pets, despite 12 pts of kb protection would knock my Emp/Sonic/Elec if she happened to get hit by a mine(s?). Quite possibly either because of multiple hits or that combined with rank etc. modifiers as at least my own trip mine users don't have anywhere enough kb to send a foe with 12 pts protection flying via a single trip mine.

The Generic Giant Monster Foot Stomp is a fairly common, and annoying, magnitude 10 knockback attack. If you're going to be in melee with a GM much, you want at least 10 knockback protection. Otherwise, the bare minimum of knockback protection is good enough to deal with the 0.67 knockback attacks just about every NPC in the game has.

Acrobatics for knockback protection is a trap. If you're not a super jumper, you have to expend two power choices to get it. More than one slot in Acrobatics is a huge trap. Not much of Acro's knock protection is enhanceable, so enhancing Acro gives you 1.5 per slot, compared to Karma, Steadfast, or Zephyr, which give you 4 per slot. At the ED cap, Acro gives about 12 protection.

Ha when I first saw the Topic I thought it was going to be about how much KB should your attacks give you to keep the mobs away from you (mitigation=protection). To which I was going to answer with a resounding *No KB is Needed!!!*

So...the real topic, 1 -KB IO has always been more than sufficient for me for my non-Meleers, but man I hate life without that one.