Time Overpowered
By
Adamant,
Posted on: 2011-09-15 08:56 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
There's virtually no -regen in the set, no status protection, and numbers can't even compare to rad. No -def autohit powers, and as far as I can tell the HPS of mending is no greater than any other aoe heal.
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If only Time's combined defense advantage combined with its -ToHit was more than Radiation -ToHit when fighting high level enemies and archvillains.
Oh wait, it is.
And lacking autohit -defense as a major balance issue? What?
PS the area effect of Time's powers is also more than 6 [EDIT: Actually I'm wrong, it's 4.6 times, a volume of 65,449ft versus 14137ft] times larger than Radiation. The only people claiming the numbers "don't even compare to Rad" don't understand "the numbers." I'm sorry to be that blunt but there is no other possible take on that. If having worse minus Regen than another set is a standard for getting what Time has, Trick Arrow should be soloing Hamidon.
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lol...ohhhh yeah. Happened to me/my team on the head-start day. We had 5 /Times on a 8 person team. Our clones were just clobbering us. After our 4th wipe, I wised-up and used one of my other accounts to email myself T4 reds, purples and oranges. Problem solved |
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
I know TM makes Posi TF a little more difficult.
We had two TM's in our group as we approached the last mish. The one with the clones. One of the members had dropped (not one of the TM's). When one of your team members drop, the game knows someone is missing, but doesn't know the missing person's build. So for that mish, the game will create another clone of one of the existing players. So they had three TM's to our two. It took us four team wipes to kill one of the TM clones (after each wipe, we returned from the hosp, with full insp trays. But by that time, all of the clones had been fully healed). |
Repeat Offenders
will u ppl be quiet about /time
i swear if my /time MM looses out on softcapped def to all to pets that have inherently 0 def b/c this post does prove time is OP I WILL BE SO MAD!!!! 
http://imageshack.us/f/842/cityofheroes20110921173.jpg/
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Ref Time/Ice have a 50 def Chrono Freeze very nice synergy and stacking of holds, plus hitting slow response on a mob then dropping ice storm and blizzard on them is just so fun! |
Originally Posted by Maroon Warlock
Alright, so after reading the responses, I'll admit that Time Manipulation is not overpowered like I made it out to be. I think the "Willpower" of buffs comment sounds pretty accurate. I do think some of the powers are original and refreshing. However, I'm still a little bitter about the hold and the AoE click res/def debuff.
As for the Slow/Hold patch, I still do not know how it works. I just saw "chance to hold" and that it was a patch and thought "OMG Volcanic Gasses clone overpowered!" I think it still has a chance to hold without Time Crawl, but either way, that chance is small from what I've heard reading further into it. So, it's more like a slow/-rech patch with a small chance to hold; not a hold patch. Time Stop. As some of you mentioned, stacking holds in non-control sets is nothing new. What IS new about that regard is that this is the first buff/debuff set that does this. Ice Blast/Time will sure be able to stack a lot of holds! Anyway, I can get over this though. The -heal aspect is pretty cool I think. I just wish the holds in some other buff/debuff sets (dark miasma and poisons) had some additional effects. Slowed Response vs Melt Armor. I STILL do NOT like how these even out. Melt Armor lasts longer and is permable, but Slowed Response is more easily permable AND has a bigger radius. Slowed Response also burns less endurance, and has a longer range, but that doesn't really bother me. I guess I can take solace in the fact that if a therm cast Melt Armor and got one-shotted right after, that debuff would last longer than Slowed Response under the same circumstances. I think Melt Armor should also have a 25ft radius to help justify its longer recharge time and heavier end cost, but that's just how the jealous therm feels  I thought that a click res/def debuff was a specialty of Thermal Radiation, so I'm a little miffed that the "Willpower" of buff sets does that better. Is Time Manipulation an overpowered set overall? As many of you have pointed out, no. I now agree with you all on that. Thank you for the responses and putting things in better perspective in regards to Time Manipulation. I just have beef with the radius of Slowed Response. A small detail, I know, somebody call the WAAAAAmbulance on me :P |
Guys seriously enough already Dark, Traps and Rad have been overpowered since forever. It's ok it hasn't broken the game yet!
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I was going to refute the assertion that TMs heals are weaker than comparable ones and it has virtually no -regen and its numbers don't compare to Rad, but it occurs to me we need people who believe this to increase the likelihood the devs don't change their minds about the set.|
Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
You counted -rech with a power that has a 6 min cooldown, awesome. Way overpowered.
Seriously guys. And FF doesn't have heals? That can be rectified with a power pool, true mez protection can't. There's virtually no -regen in the set, no status protection, and numbers can't even compare to rad. No -def autohit powers, and as far as I can tell the HPS of mending is no greater than any other aoe heal. I don't know what sets people have been playing before now, but if you are faceplanting at 50 you are doing it wrong. |
All I know is my Ill/Rad can average, with her recharge, something in the neighborhood of -650% regen by partially stacking LR. The numbers I get for single target stack of -regen on TM is about -550%. When the problem is that its a hair under Rad and can't quite get to Traps, those are problems I can live with. In the meantime I predict Farsight will be the next Radiation Infection, where people basically needed videos of Rads going to sleep inside the cloud to demonstrate what the strength of the power actually was. And farsight has none of the weaknesses of Radiation Infection.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In the meantime I predict Farsight will be the next Radiation Infection, where people basically needed videos of Rads going to sleep inside the cloud to demonstrate what the strength of the power actually was. And farsight has none of the weaknesses of Radiation Infection.
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I'm working on it.
P.S. are you saying the -Regen does stack? It was my initial assumption from open beta that it did stack, but someone said it doesn't and I never bothered to test it one way or another.
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Wait...wait...does TC stack or not? I've been under the impression that the -Regen of TC doesnt stack.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I was going to refute the assertion that TMs heals are weaker than comparable ones and it has virtually no -regen and its numbers don't compare to Rad, but it occurs to me we need people who believe this to increase the likelihood the devs don't change their minds about the set.
All I know is my Ill/Rad can average, with her recharge, something in the neighborhood of -650% regen by partially stacking LR. The numbers I get for single target stack of -regen on TM is about -550%. When the problem is that its a hair under Rad and can't quite get to Traps, those are problems I can live with. In the meantime I predict Farsight will be the next Radiation Infection, where people basically needed videos of Rads going to sleep inside the cloud to demonstrate what the strength of the power actually was. And farsight has none of the weaknesses of Radiation Infection. |
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I haven't bothered to check since beta, but as far as I know everything in Time Crawl stacks, including the -regen. Ditto Time Stop.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I'm working on it.
P.S. are you saying the -Regen does stack? It was my initial assumption from open beta that it did stack, but someone said it doesn't and I never bothered to test it one way or another. |
About the only thing wrong with Time Manipulation is its called a manipulation set but I can't make a blaster with it. I'm not generally in favor of powerset respec, but I'd pay real money to swap my En/En's secondary for Time Manipulation. I would miss total focus, but I would write it a really nice goodbye letter.
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No reason to miss it!|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I haven't bothered to check since beta, but as far as I know everything in Time Crawl stacks, including the -regen. Ditto Time Stop.
About the only thing wrong with Time Manipulation is its called a manipulation set but I can't make a blaster with it. I'm not generally in favor of powerset respec, but I'd pay real money to swap my En/En's secondary for Time Manipulation. I would miss total focus, but I would write it a really nice goodbye letter. |
Power Mastery keeps the option for Total Focus open! So reroll to Energy/Time or Time/Energy!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I'm still trying to decide what to roll for my first *live* TM character. I tested my brains out on TM, so I have the luxury of backing off a bit and deciding what I actually want to play, not what would be good to test. Energy/Time did cross my mind as a "what if" on my main.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
No reason to miss it!
Power Mastery keeps the option for Total Focus open! So reroll to Energy/Time or Time/Energy! |
But to be honest, I'm currently trying to decide between:
- Gravity/Time controller. Love the concept. Gravity, time - PhysicsGirl would probably be interesting. Not the most powerful combo, but definitely ... swirly.
- Bots/Time mastermind. Another concept combo, but it has the significant disadvantage that I'll probably fall asleep while playing it. That would probably be ludicrous to solo.
- Sonic/Time corruptor. Probably an awesome soloing combo, without quite the somnolence of bots. Speaking of overpowered, I still have no idea what anyone was thinking when they gave squishies Siren's Song. You might as well practically give blasters Elude.
- Electric/Time controller. Honestly, I have no concept for this. The idea popped into my head, and it just seemed so weird it had a certain charm to it.
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The last discussion I remember on beta about -regen stacking with TM was that it did not stack, so the best achievable was only -150.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I haven't bothered to check since beta, but as far as I know everything in Time Crawl stacks, including the -regen. Ditto Time Stop.
About the only thing wrong with Time Manipulation is its called a manipulation set but I can't make a blaster with it. I'm not generally in favor of powerset respec, but I'd pay real money to swap my En/En's secondary for Time Manipulation. I would miss total focus, but I would write it a really nice goodbye letter. |
I'll whip out a power analyser thing tonight to test it on some baddies, but anyway, from playing Time solo and grouped for TFs up to 30 now, (i level so slowly
) as well as messing around with various versions on Beta, I have to agree with the majority of people, this set is just right at falling in line with the top tier sets at best, and possibly coming off a bit short.Ultimately I'm waiting to go up against the big AVs, in ITF and STF etc etc to see how useful -rech is as a gimmick.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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I'd roll this. I did and it's nice so far. I plan to attempt AV/GM soloing on it after I get mine to 50 to see if it'll do better than my elec/cold.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
- Electric/Time controller. Honestly, I have no concept for this. The idea popped into my head, and it just seemed so weird it had a certain charm to it.
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Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
So far, I only have two live TM characters.
Thyme Machine, my Plants/Time controller..
... and my latest incarnation of a melee defender. She only attacks using pool powers. It takes her even longer to kill things than most defenders, but she's still relatively immortal in standard difficulty solo content.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Earth/Time was my pick. The pet doesn't need direct healing, there is -ToHit in Earthquake, the Lockdown: Hold proc can be placed in two different, long lasting patch powers, and I can use Energy Torrent's cone from the Primal pool from comfortable range. I have died a few times from running past mobs 8 levels higher than me and once or twice from the usual sources but it's very safe. I tend to like the wide area feel of the control sets.
[I should add that it is also sort of funny to me to be having a conversation about Time in one thread where we're talking about being ok with it beating actual armor sets for numbers and should under no circumstances be nerfed, to a discussion in another thread about Force Bolt being a great power because its maybe sometimes more useful than the free vet Nemesis Wand. 
It's illustrating exactly what I meant when I said this game has no standards for overpowered.]
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Hmm, it seems my information on Time Crawl is incorrect. It doesn't stack according to the power analyzer. That's odd. Now I have to hunt down why that information is incorrect.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
The last discussion I remember on beta about -regen stacking with TM was that it did not stack, so the best achievable was only -150.
I'll whip out a power analyser thing tonight to test it on some baddies, but anyway, from playing Time solo and grouped for TFs up to 30 now, (i level so slowly ) as well as messing around with various versions on Beta, I have to agree with the majority of people, this set is just right at falling in line with the top tier sets at best, and possibly coming off a bit short.Ultimately I'm waiting to go up against the big AVs, in ITF and STF etc etc to see how useful -rech is as a gimmick. |
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That's why I thought it didn't stack as well...maybe there were some last minute changes on live before the set was released?
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Just checked it myself, even spamming TC and TS I never got stacking.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Hmm, it seems my information on Time Crawl is incorrect. It doesn't stack according to the power analyzer. That's odd. Now I have to hunt down why that information is incorrect.
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Fire/Time Corr.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But to be honest, I'm currently trying to decide between:
- Gravity/Time controller. Love the concept. Gravity, time - PhysicsGirl would probably be interesting. Not the most powerful combo, but definitely ... swirly. - Bots/Time mastermind. Another concept combo, but it has the significant disadvantage that I'll probably fall asleep while playing it. That would probably be ludicrous to solo. - Sonic/Time corruptor. Probably an awesome soloing combo, without quite the somnolence of bots. Speaking of overpowered, I still have no idea what anyone was thinking when they gave squishies Siren's Song. You might as well practically give blasters Elude. - Electric/Time controller. Honestly, I have no concept for this. The idea popped into my head, and it just seemed so weird it had a certain charm to it. |
When you have controls, heal, defense all in decent measure - the only thing you really want after that is a heap of damage.
Out of what you listed: Time/Sonic Defender instead of Corr would be the better choice.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
[I should add that it is also sort of funny to me to be having a conversation about Time in one thread where we're talking about being ok with it beating actual armor sets for numbers and should under no circumstances be nerfed,
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But I think you are now at the point of being disingenuous when you keep saying how time "beats armor sets" for actual numbers.
If you're talking defenders, who can we compare that to melee wise? A Tanker? Defender Farsight does not beat Tanker Ice, Tanker SD or Tanker SR.
If you're talking Power Boost, then we can just say that "All Scrapper Armors beat Brute Armors for Defense" on the basis that Scrappers can take Shadow Meld.
Corr Farsight slotted with no powerboost is 14% DEF. That's not beating any Defense based armor set, nor is it beating a VEAT.
Neither does time grant any Mez protection at all, a key component of armor sets.
So while I actually agree that Farsight should have gotten some resistance (like 5% or something) to prevent the current Power Boost combination from doing what it's doing, I think you should be clearer when you keep posting about it.
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Yeah, was gonna ask what Dues mentioned. Purely from a numbers perspective (mind you this isn't a big deal...I mean I rolled a DP/TIME...according to most I was shooting my self in the foot picking DP |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm still trying to decide what to roll for my first *live* TM character. I tested my brains out on TM, so I have the luxury of backing off a bit and deciding what I actually want to play, not what would be good to test. Energy/Time did cross my mind as a "what if" on my main.
But to be honest, I'm currently trying to decide between: - Gravity/Time controller. Love the concept. Gravity, time - PhysicsGirl would probably be interesting. Not the most powerful combo, but definitely ... swirly. - Bots/Time mastermind. Another concept combo, but it has the significant disadvantage that I'll probably fall asleep while playing it. That would probably be ludicrous to solo. - Sonic/Time corruptor. Probably an awesome soloing combo, without quite the somnolence of bots. Speaking of overpowered, I still have no idea what anyone was thinking when they gave squishies Siren's Song. You might as well practically give blasters Elude. - Electric/Time controller. Honestly, I have no concept for this. The idea popped into my head, and it just seemed so weird it had a certain charm to it. |
), why not go Time/Sonic Defender?Sonic Blast is suppossed to be better on Defenders, and Time/ on Defenders is of course better than on Corrs (hmmm...I have this name on virtue that could go perfectly with Time/Sonic, and I've rerolled her 5 times already not enjoying any sonic combos with her so far, this could be the one to go with. :O )
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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If they did that, I'd say give it the same resist numbers as Resilience, not so low as 5%...which just seems...well not much, all because a certain power pool works well with a powerset (kinda like how KIN works so well with Trollers Fire Epic)|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
So while I actually agree that Farsight should have gotten some resistance (like 5% or something) to prevent the current Power Boost combination from doing what it's doing, I think you should be clearer when you keep posting about it.
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I'd say 10-15% to three damage types (S/L/P or S/L/T would still be my pick on that...S/L as it just seems like the resistance a Time Manip would have and Psi or Toxic because messing with time makes their mind harder to mess with OR Toxic because you're slowing down the toxic effects on your body by manipulating time) like the other Defender Powers that while they offer less Defense, do offer stealth.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You can't compare it to resilience, that's from an Armor set.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
If they did that, I'd say give it the same resist numbers as Resilience, not so low as 5%...which just seems...well not much, all because a certain power pool works well with a powerset (kinda like how KIN works so well with Trollers Fire Epic)
I'd say 10-15% to three damage types (S/L/P or S/L/T would still be my pick on that...S/L as it just seems like the resistance a Time Manip would have and Psi or Toxic because messing with time makes their mind harder to mess with OR Toxic because you're slowing down the toxic effects on your body by manipulating time) like the other Defender Powers that while they offer less Defense, do offer stealth. |
The closest we have is Mind Link (Fort/NW version) with 30% base Psi Res (and only Psi) and Link Minds (Dom Epic Pool) with 1.7% Psi Resistance.
However:
1) Both of those are specifically Psionic themed, and thus get psi resistance.
2) The resistance in Link Minds is a token amount.
3) Neither of these two powers can accept rech IOs directly, which is part of what is great about Farsight.
4) Your version of the power with those resistances would put this power well beyond what Arctic Fog & Shadow Fall are capable of.
Brandx, I think your change would surely make Time OP at that point.
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Well the idea of 3 resists was keeping it in line with the Toggle shields and at their numbers, my thinking was stealth in exchange for the added defense of Farsight.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Brandx, I think your change would surely make Time OP at that point.
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Anyway, Force Field doesnt have heals, -ToHit, slows, perception debuff resistance, slow resistance, or regen debuff resistance. One time recently I actually got hit by a very large -Recharge debuff and actually countered it with Chrono Shift, zeroing it out.
Seriously guys.
And FF doesn't have heals? That can be rectified with a power pool, true mez protection can't.
There's virtually no -regen in the set, no status protection, and numbers can't even compare to rad. No -def autohit powers, and as far as I can tell the HPS of mending is no greater than any other aoe heal.
I don't know what sets people have been playing before now, but if you are faceplanting at 50 you are doing it wrong.