Just SO's - AT and Power sets combos

Having just learned from ClawsandEffect's post of the fact that IO builds are not available to Premium accounts unless you pay a fee in points each month for a special license, I would like to start a list of power set choices for each Archtype, if possible, that will work well on a pure SO basis.

I expect these would be AT's and power selections with minimal holes to be patched as, for example, KB protection IO's and/or Set bonuses will not be available. AT's without an inherent KB protection power will have to look at Hover. Power sets with low inherent accuracy in attacks should probably be avoided as well, as there will not be any +Accuracy from set bonuses and no Kismet unique. Power sets that have skipable powers or powers that function well 'out of the box' may be preferred as while it is often possible to get a good selection of enhancement bonuses in a power with only 5 or even 4 IO's, my experience in leveling various Alts leads me to believe you will have to commit 6 SO slots to every truly important power.

I have basically no experience with trying to do a final build with just SO's as I started playing after the Invention System was pretty much exactly as it is today. I hope the old hands who started before the IO system was released will share their knowledge. And please no Hami O's, I understand they will still work for Premium without a fee but I want this thread to serve as a resource for new and casual players. Also, since the Hami-O is going to be the best advanced resource for people who want to play totally free, there will probably be new demand in the market that will push them back up to the Inf cap.

The fun and challenge of designing IO builds is one of my principal joys in the game. Sure am going to miss it on the second account. I sure wish there was such a thing as Account Transfers, so I could pull all the Level 50 full IO toons I made over that last few months off my 2nd account and put them in the one account we are going to try to keep subscribed.

Jak

PS: Are the Devs going to create a PvP area just for SO toons, or are they going to screw down the lid on the PvP coffin by making all the new free and no points purchased Premium account players just fresh meat for the PvP IO players? I don't PvP but it would seem obvious that a real PvP build would be impossible for a SO build to combat, correct?

iirc, we just had holes in our builds and we liked it.

That was the reason why we teamed all the time--we had to. Didn't have any of these, "I soloed the Freedom Phalanx on +4x8 with only temp powers" show-off threads that are everywhere these days. And we liked it.

If you wanted to up your def, you got a force field bubbler on your team who did nothing but bubble everyone and their pets. And he liked it.
None of these namby-pamby +def from a single enhancement tomfoolery. No, sir. No truck with that.

If you wanted some kb protection, you got your self immobilized. And you liked it. But real toons didn't need kb prot. You just stand back up again. What's so hard about that?

If you wanted to +recharge, you got a kin for your team and you yelled at him. Constantly. sbme sbme sbme sbme sbme plz sbme. And he liked it.

It used to be, if you ran a successful SF you could be rewarded with a SO. And we were glad we got them.


GOML!



razzerfrazzin

Are the licenses seriously monthly? I was under the impression that you bought it once and that was it.

Anyway, the game is balanced around SOs, so I wouldn't agree that there should necessarily be certain powersets that should be avoided (at least, not because of a lack of IOs). I guess you could mention sets like Dark Armor and Fiery Aura and point out that their inherent lack of KB protection would likely require Acrobatics from the Leaping pool (because what sort of moron melee fighter hovers around?).

There are certainly some powers that perform best on 6 SOs, but is that any different from many IO builds that require multiple 6-slotted to get the elusive 5th set bonus? Some powers have higher-than-normal accuracy and might not need any slotting there, some have low end costs that don't need any endurance reduction. People got by before IOs, and new players will do the same.

Can't find anything about PvP but if they were making a new PvP zone for free players (in I21 anyway) we would know about it by now. I would assume nothing's changing because why would the devs address a broken system, that would be silly. I could see it going either way: free players are blocked off from the zones, or they're not.

Two final notes: In doing a search for another thread I got logged out of the forums so thanks a bunch for that, forum. Also, I'm sure my long-winded and mostly useless post has been scooped by the time I post this.

EDIT: Correct on one count.

Any set is and can be viable with just SO's. True, some might have some 'newbie' issues, such as Fiery Aura (as newbies will see them all over the place) and you have to tell them they lack quite some mez-protection they need to get elsewhere.

Other then that, nearly all my test-server toons and AE toons are fully SO slotted untill roughly 44-47, only then i move over to IO's. Exceptions only on the KB-prot and global 3% got Fiery.

My blaster, an Ice/NRG, is actualy still slotted with _only_ SO's, he has not done a respec yet for the free fitness pool, he's basicly a 'free to play' proof character. I've done the trials, i've done TF's and hami-raids (old style). I spent millions in Perigrine island to upslot al my 50 SO's to 50++ SO's.

The game is balanced around SOs, DOs, and TOs. IOs are just the elite versions. Any AT and power set works just fine without IOs. They may not be as min/maxed as an IO build, and a few extra pool powers may need to be acquired for stuff like KB protection in some cases, but they all can work. They worked great for the 8 issues before IOs even showed up. You may not be able to take on a 4x8 mission solo like some IO'd out builds can now, and some things in the game may be harder than they could be with an IO'd out build, but not having them doesn't mean the game is unplayable by any stretch.

IO's are a choice not a necessaty.

Not using IO's should not 'gimp' your play in any way - or words to that effect - is what we were told when they were introduced into the game.

I have several 50's that I play on a regular basis that only use SO's. Also they still are pre-inherent stamina builds, mainly because I hate respeccing as it takes so long and I would much rather spend my playtime 'arresting' naughty peeps, than stood in a corner trying to remember what goes where and how many slots per power, I find it all so tedious.

IO's aren't a necessity, but you're a hell of a lot more powerful with them than without. Agreed?

Going back to the original question: Here's what I would suggest for your All SO's All The Time team members.

Defenders- rad/sonic or... naah, just rad/sonic.
Brutes, Scrappers- Something/Willpower.
Blasters: Fire/Mental [personal choice]

... that's about all I play these days.

Ok so the OP got me thinking. Yes obviously SOs are just fine and I still use them in point of fact. But for the benefit of free players perhaps there could be a sticky in the guides section or perhaps just a section in the FAQ for SO-only guides. Seems to me they were deemed helpful enough back in the day.

Thank you all for your replies. I enjoyed all_hell's response a lot.

Since I have never had a toon that did not get a KB protection IO if it needed it, I had totally forgotten about Acrobatics, and I have never had an Alt that took it. So that pool power pick solves 1 problem for a lot of AT's.

Appparently most of you missed the central point of this post. I am sure you are all correct in saying that any AT and power set can be viable/playable on a diet of pure SO chow.

What I was looking for is recommendations for AT's and their associated powersets that can actually Shine (Thank you Fulmen's for your recommends) with nothing but SO's. We constantly see threads in the various forums listing examples of the best this and the worst that. Surely there are certain AT's and/or Powersets that are the best with just SO enhancers.

If so many of the current AT's and powersets are so well balanced with purely SO builds that no Standouts can be pointed too (Memphis Bill, could you please list the old time GM soloers,) then at least try to select the few dogs that should be avoided or only attempted by experienced players.

Finally, do any of you see a comeback for Titan and Hydra enhancers for the premium or F2P crowd as multi-aspect enhancers that might still be useful but cheaper than Hami-O's. I continue to exclude Hami-O's, and having done more research, the restricted Inf Cap for F2P and low Vet Status Premium players, and the restricted player-to-player trade and Auction House access, will make purchase of Hami-O's impossible anyway.

Jak

It's been years, and the forums have been purged several times, so no, I don't have a list of SO-based GM soloers. Might as well ask me who got the best grades on mid-year tests in third grade, I'd have as much chance of remembering that. I do know full well it was done, though. (And frankly it was far more impressive at the time, which is why the fact of it being done stays with me.)

And SO or IO makes little to no difference as far as "shine." They *ALL DO WELL* at what they do, generally speaking. And they're all going to have certain considerations while building. If I were giving someone a recommendation for new players, it wouldn't be "Does it work on SOs," it would be "How complicated is it?" For instance, I wouldn't recommend a Mastermind or anything running Storm Summoning as a first AT or powerset - not because of SOs or IOs, but because they're a bit more of a handful to use well no matter *what* they're slotted with. After that it's more a question of play style and finding the best fit.

The only things that shuffle around are going to be consideration of why certain sets and powers - for instance, you're not going to be looking for "proc monster" powers, since you'll have no procs to worry about. You'll take, for instance, the first blast from Radiation Blast if you make a rad/ blaster because it's fast and can be fired while mezzed, not because it's able to be loaded down with X many different procs. Slotting will be shuffled, and maybe pick order of powers.

As far as Titan and Hydra... no. Mostly because they expire. If they made them NOT expire, they'd be useful - but to do what they do and fizzle a few levels later? Not really worth it.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Yesterday did a few tip missions, and so there was a fellow fiery armor brute with... yes, CJ and acrobatics. He was still SO'ed running around, hadnt really looked into IOs and recipes yet so he was happy as he was.

Though personaly, they should add some more info on the tank/brute character selection what certain armors miss, as Fiery armor lacks quite a few that you need to get from poolpowers (or not at all).

There's only one area that is not balanced around strict conventional Enhancements and that's the new Incarnate Trials which require an Incarnate ability slotted to avoid a penalty. Everything else in the game can be handled by conventional enhancements.

So unless you're going for that content (which is blocked to any non-VIP accounts IIRC) then it's a moot point.

here's hoping guides in the future won't yammer about IO sets
and get back to basics

HO's will still work and are obtainable even for free players, no license or sub required. A fully HOed build is the next-best thing to IOed.

For $1.50 or so, you can get the Paragon Store Origin -KB IO. It'll level with you and requires no license or sub to use. Completely IOing a character at those prices with PSOs would be insanity, but buying individual proc IOs is very doable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lxndr here's hoping guides in the future won't yammer about IO sets and get back to basics

Or get written at all.

P.S. The IO license is only $2 a month. Pretty reasonable given the hours of entertainment tuning an IO build can give.

WARNING: I bold names.