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Perhaps I should have bolded and underlined this part for you,|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The only problem is he doesn't have any legitimate concerns.
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"However wrong Fetus was is irrelevant."
Could've saved you the trouble of listing off the reasons he is wrong and instead let you actually digest the gist of the post...
That he didn't have legitimate concerns, but that his concerns bring to light a possible one.
If you wanna look at my realistic view of the game not lasting more than 2 years if this isn't a success as doomsaying then go right ahead. Come tomorrow we will be losing a significant # of Subscriptions, as they drop to Premium. If the amount being spent in the store doesn't surpass the amount lost...
Call it DOOoooom if it makes you feel better, whatever. Logic tells me if we're (ViP's) the only ones using the store, and then only when new shinies are put up, then this game will no longer be profitable from NCSoft's far away view point. We all know what that would mean and it isn't something we want.
If DDO and LOTR et al make free players purchase standard features such as chat access then my arguement is void, this being the only game I play I wouldn't know. All I know is I don't want the throngs of new/returning players to be so turned off at first sight that they don't even bother. We want them hooked and pumping money into the store after all.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
I just did a little research and if a Player were to spend a small pittance, enough to get through Tier 2, then they will have access to Tells. MOST returning players will likely already have Tier 2 filled which negates the problem.
Again, I'm fine if they can Reply, but not send at the truely free level. Sorry, it's a two way street. I prefer to keep my Tells open so I can help on TFs, groups, etc. I don't want to have to turn it on and off because X amount of RMTers are waiting to spam me. Getting through the second Tier is not hard or very difficult. And, again, for most returning players it is a moot point.
Which is why it shocked me to see the reactions to Fetus' post. Instead of enlightening him about how utterly cheap and easy it would be we just laughed and sent him on his way.
The point was, perception is a dangerous thing. It does not matter how wrong or misinformed those coming in are. It does not matter if they should've 'done more research' beforehand. All that matters is can we educate them about our model and keep them around?
With attitudes like I'm seeing... I doubt it, but I remain hopeful.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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This is the one thing I worry about actually keeping free/casual returning premiums from resubscribing and, as Maestro rightfully points out, it's all about perception.|
Originally Posted by Death_Badger
You are talking about a completely different scenario. As Arcanaville says it used to be impossible to keep fully SO slotted. And as I stated that was pre the auction house. Nowadays I'm disappointed if a character doesn't have 100 million by L20
Free/Premium players will presumably be in this situation again where they will struggle to keep fully slotted (Though I don't know exactly how hampered they are going to be in terms of drops) |
Let's hypothetically assume their drops will be identical to VIP-status, they just can't do anything with them as VIPs can, other than vendor them for a pittance. The way I understand it, and I might be wrong - feel free to correct me if I am - salvage and recipe drops are semi-shared with enhancement drops, meaning you'll get one of the three on a given mob kill.
That makes it even less likely they'll be able to keep fully slotted with DOs and SOs because they're getting drops that will end up vendoring for far less than selling enhancements not for their origin. They will actually be in a worse boat than we were in "the old days" when all we had drop were enhancements.
Then when they hit 22 and realize they have enough INF to buy MAYBE 2 SOs before being broke... They might just tell the game goodbye. And heaven forbid they are able to look at prices in Wentworths/Black Market, even if they're unable to use the market itself. The first time they see things that cost tens or hundreds of millions when they are struggling to get 20-30k together to buy a couple DOs or one SO, it might turn them off the prospect of ever subscribing.
Partial Character List:
LENINA 198-DELTA - 50+3 DP/Kin Corruptor (Main) / Captiosus - 50+3 Energy/Energy Blaster
Highlands.Hellraiser - 50+1 DS/Fire Tanker / SpazRat - 50 Claw/SR Stalker
Col. Gregor Aktaybr - 45 Robots/Time MM
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The only people to blame if there is RMT spam is those people who are currently in game/previously subscribed who have purchased inf. If there was no market for the services the spammers would have moved on as they are around for profit pure and simple.|
Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
I just did a little research and if a Player were to spend a small pittance, enough to get through Tier 2, then they will have access to Tells. MOST returning players will likely already have Tier 2 filled which negates the problem.
Again, I'm fine if they can Reply, but not send at the truely free level. Sorry, it's a two way street. I prefer to keep my Tells open so I can help on TFs, groups, etc. I don't want to have to turn it on and off because X amount of RMTers are waiting to spam me. Getting through the second Tier is not hard or very difficult. And, again, for most returning players it is a moot point. |
It's a little naive to think people who are basically playing a trial will quite happily pay out anything in good faith that it is worthwhile. The game needs to convince people to part with their cash, not with restrictions that force them to , but with the incentive of being a good game. It's only $5 or whatever isn't the greatest argument in the world when there are numerous games out there that allow the things that CoH restrict with no cash outlay.
I can see Freedom being successful but only in managing to increase the amount that current subscribers are paying. Many of the items in the shop are aimed at the people who will continue to subscribe. Basically it seems that the developers are trying to increase subscription fees via the store, and it will work as most people out there subscribing are addicted to the game and have to have every powerset, costume piece and other little bits and pieces. The points per month allocation simply will get people used to using the store after that its just a small step to them spending points and then real cash on the inevitable sale items. the reason most games use points rather than an actual cash value is so that people don't think in terms of dollars and it works. Its only 400 points sounds much better than its only $5.
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Exactly. The biggest sticking point for me is chat. I understand not letting them have free-reign, but the no tells part really feels like sticking it to them just because they can.|
Originally Posted by Death_Badger
It's a little naive to think people who are basically playing a trial will quite happily pay out anything in good faith that it is worthwhile. The game needs to convince people to part with their cash, not with restrictions that force them to , but with the incentive of being a good game. It's only $5 or whatever isn't the greatest argument in the world when there are numerous games out there that allow the things that CoH restrict with no cash outlay.
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Just give them the ability to respond to tells, it'd make teaming so much easier for ViP's as well as Prem's and Free's. I think this would go a long way towards letting us integrate the new players and keep them from feeling so isolated.
But....
Time's up
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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No bleep Sherlock. Pay attention. I was specifically responding to Techbot Alpha not Arcanaville. That's why I quoted him instead of her. Most people can have multiple conversations going on at the same time on a forum and we can bounce back and forth between them.
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger
You are talking about a completely different scenario.
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No. I wanted to post them anyway.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Perhaps I should have bolded and underlined this part for you,
"However wrong Fetus was is irrelevant." Could've saved you the trouble of listing off the reasons he is wrong and instead let you actually digest the gist of the post... That he didn't have legitimate concerns, but that his concerns bring to light a possible one. |
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If you wanna look at my realistic view of the game not lasting more than 2 years if this isn't a success as doomsaying then go right ahead. Come tomorrow we will be losing a significant # of Subscriptions, as they drop to Premium. If the amount being spent in the store doesn't surpass the amount lost... Call it DOOoooom if it makes you feel better, whatever. Logic tells me if we're (ViP's) the only ones using the store, and then only when new shinies are put up, then this game will no longer be profitable from NCSoft's far away view point. We all know what that would mean and it isn't something we want. If DDO and LOTR et al make free players purchase standard features such as chat access then my arguement is void, this being the only game I play I wouldn't know. All I know is I don't want the throngs of new/returning players to be so turned off at first sight that they don't even bother. We want them hooked and pumping money into the store after all.
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Assume the worst, hope for the best, and all of your surprises will be pleasant ones.
Or if you prefer that I quote Lt Cmdr Susan Ivanova?
No doom today. Doom tomorrow. There's always a Doom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Doom. Sooner or later. DOOM!
Ok...So obviously I am confused. I don't mean to be, an I have read through the entire thingy over and over and over and I am not sure what is about to happen to me and my beloved toons.
I may have to jump to premium for 2 months because of possible surgery and recovery times.
I have been looking at the side by side comparison
(Them) It says no forum access
(Me) Thats ok. Im fine with that.
(Them) Character Slots - 2 total, plus slots that were unlocked or directly purchased
(Me) So I get two for sure. I get that. I have only 6 or 7 toons. Are those the "Unlocked ones?" Or will I only have 2, and the top two of my list. Which are 50s an IOed with inventions.
(Them) Invention system is limited
(Me) For my two IOed toons that fit with the above statement, what happens to them. How are they altered?
(Them) Chat Channels. Local, Team, Whispers (Tells)
(Me) So...No Broadcast? I can't actually look for teams? I am the Co leader of an SG and I wont be able to work with my SG? Although I am allowed to join one?
(Them) You can join and SG
(Me) But I can't speak with them?
(Them) No in game customer support
(Me) So if you're game is broken...and it bugs out, I can't have someone fix it, even though it was through no fault of my own?
I have other questions but those are my main issues
I bought the boxes, and going rogue through digital purchase. Those things included certain game mechanics and items for purchase, as well as inventions, SG bases and all of that good stuff.
So...My example.
I bought the Box Set for CoX AE edition. On the box it states that I have purchased the awesomeness of AE (Which I never use but still)
I bought Going Rogue and all it's blissfullness and the things that came with it.
So...I guess, and without sounding too negative here. What exactly did I buy and pay for?
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DDO lists free access to chat as "limited". Premium and VIP (CoH uses the same names as DDO) have it "unlimited". Chat ability for EQ2X for Bronze (free) players is "/say /tell /group /guild" while it's unlimited for Silver (Premium), Gold and Platinum (subscriptions). (These are two games I played, so that's what I'm comparing.)|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
If DDO and LOTR et al make free players purchase standard features such as chat access then my arguement is void
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So limiting free players is not unheard of, but Freedom limits more than most, including limiting Premium players.
For other communication channels, DDO has limited mail and limited forum posting for Free and unlimited for Premium, while EQ2X has receive-only mail for Bronze and Silver and everyone can post to the forum (but it's a separate forum and game from the old EQ2, which old subscribers can still play without interference from non-subscribers).
For guilds, DDO requires that Free and Premium players buy a charter, while it's free for VIP's, while EQ2X allows Bronze players to join, Silver to create but need to pay, and Gold and Platinum can create for free, far as I know.
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This is my concern. I don't much understand allowing premium toons to join an SG without allowing them SG chat. |
Originally Posted by Dark Sweater
((In regards to the Chat Function)) So limiting free players is not unheard of, but Freedom limits more than most, including limiting Premium players.
. |
Obviously, I want to continue being VIP and shall once Im back more on a full time basis, but to me this is confusing and makes less sense.
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You get to pick which characters to unlock. Since you have Going Rogue you get two more slots, and it looks (from your forum join date) like you've had a year of subscription, so that's another slot. You will have a total of 5 then (on the assumption that you've subbed for a year), enough to unlock most of your characters.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
(Them) Character Slots - 2 total, plus slots that were unlocked or directly purchased
(Me) So I get two for sure. I get that. I have only 6 or 7 toons. Are those the "Unlocked ones?" Or will I only have 2, and the top two of my list. Which are 50s an IOed with inventions. |
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(Them) Invention system is limited (Me) For my two IOed toons that fit with the above statement, what happens to them. How are they altered? |
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(Them) Chat Channels. Local, Team, Whispers (Tells) (Me) So...No Broadcast? I can't actually look for teams? I am the Co leader of an SG and I wont be able to work with my SG? Although I am allowed to join one? (Them) You can join and SG (Me) But I can't speak with them? |
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(Them) No in game customer support (Me) So if you're game is broken...and it bugs out, I can't have someone fix it, even though it was through no fault of my own? |
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I bought the boxes, and going rogue through digital purchase. Those things included certain game mechanics and items for purchase, as well as inventions, SG bases and all of that good stuff. So...My example. I bought the Box Set for CoX AE edition. On the box it states that I have purchased the awesomeness of AE (Which I never use but still) I bought Going Rogue and all it's blissfullness and the things that came with it. |
AE will be available to you, but may be limited. By default you can play it without rewards. At reward level 4 you can play and get rewards. At reward level 6 you can fully access it and create your own arcs.
Unfortunately the website currently doesn't describe the reward levels unlocks, but if you want comprehensive explanations of them, see here and here.
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Premiums get 2 basic slots plus any extra slots they unlocked thru vet rewards (1 per each year active), 1 for each one purchased thru the store, and any that were awarded with the purchase of an expansion like Going Rogue which came with 2 additional slots.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Ok...So obviously I am confused. I don't mean to be, an I have read through the entire thingy over and over and over and I am not sure what is about to happen to me and my beloved toons.
(Them) Character Slots - 2 total, plus slots that were unlocked or directly purchased (Me) So I get two for sure. I get that. I have only 6 or 7 toons. Are those the "Unlocked ones?" Or will I only have 2, and the top two of my list. Which are 50s an IOed with inventions. |
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(Them) Invention system is limited (Me) For my two IOed toons that fit with the above statement, what happens to them. How are they altered? |
[quote](Them) Chat Channels. Local, Team, Whispers (Tells)
(Me) So...No Broadcast? I can't actually look for teams? I am the Co leader of an SG and I wont be able to work with my SG? Although I am allowed to join one?[quote]
You can use the search tool and send tells out looking for teams like thousands of subscribers do every day instead of standing in a zone and using broadcast to LFT's.
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(Them) No in game customer support (Me) So if you're game is broken...and it bugs out, I can't have someone fix it, even though it was through no fault of my own? |
Oh and just an FYI, everyone got access to the AE when it went live. No one had to buy the AE edition to get it.
Ok...So now that most of this has been made a touch more clear I see where my issue will be at it's worst.
3 of my mains are all incarnates. Meaning incarnate powers. So greyed out...or essentially unplayable.
To cure my altitis I stuck with six...IOed them etc. So essentially 5 out of my 7...or 6...what have you...will be locked or greyed out for the purposes of enhancements etc.
I have been subbed for a year and a bit...so I will have some extra slots. Thats ok. Thats fine.
While I know that the goal is to gain subs...and essentially the alternative would not be able to play at all if the model remained the same, I wont complain about that.
I think what Ill end up doing is just taking a break for two months when I can resub again. Considdering, from what I have read and been provided here, that the game I was playing and the utilities that I have grown used to, which made the game more enjoyable or playable wont be available to me.
With my 50's gone or greyed out because they are incarnates, and their IO's which I worked hard for, it just seems a more logical option for me, given my circumstance to just halt my sub and return when I can become a more steady player.
I love the game and have attatchments to my toons, so I wont make this an I quit thread, but I just think it might be smarter in the long run to let my account expire, play an alt game for a little and return when both financial and health options are better for me.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Oh and just an FYI, everyone got access to the AE when it went live. No one had to buy the AE edition to get it.
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Yes...yes I know. But my box says AE Edition...and it was toted as the selling feature for the box that I puchased. It's like saying you got a box of lucky charms but after a while...when you buy your next box we have decided to remove the colorfull marshmallows unless you buy them seperately.
Nyx,
You realize of course that you can just switch over to another build and put SO's into it in the interim right? Then when you resub you can easily switch back to the Uber build.
Naturally, I understand why you wouldn't want to, just making sure you know you can. 
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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They used AE as a selling point since it was a major in game addition and they haven't had a box put out since GvE. Also, makes installing the game less painful when they release new CDs. It was still a free addition, bottom line. It would be different if we actually had to pay for AE.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
Yes...yes I know. But my box says AE Edition...and it was toted as the selling feature for the box that I puchased. It's like saying you got a box of lucky charms but after a while...when you buy your next box we have decided to remove the colorfull marshmallows unless you buy them seperately.
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Just to be clear, you can still use the Incarnate characters, just not their Incarnate powers or access Incarnate content. (And the use of their IO's.)
What you will lose access to it any character who is a Controller, Mastermind or any of the Epic AT's, unless you buy them specifically at the store (which for 2 months of absence is not worth it IMO).
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Actually, during Beta when the account status was set as non-VIP you weren't allowed to send a /petition or a /bug report. It gave errors in the chat window when you tried.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You can still file bug reports and file petitions but CS will not be getting back in touch with you personally like they do now. This is a standard in every hybrid MMO. |
I never did get confirmation of whether that was WAI or a bug.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Totally get that. That was an option as well and one I have explored. I think it's more of the issue that I (Worked) (Played) (Grinded) and going from something I enjoyed to something sub par feels like going in reverse...quickly.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Nyx,
You realize of course that you can just switch over to another build and put SO's into it in the interim right? Then when you resub you can easily switch back to the Uber build. Naturally, I understand why you wouldn't want to, just making sure you know you can. |
Like I said. I am not giving up. I think one solution, should I decide to try the premium thingy, is my lowbie "Black-Ink" who I am enjoying. I guess she could be my new thing.
I guess I am concerned about 2 things really.
1) Hampering of communication. I know there are work arounds but I find it daunting.
2) IO's. While it says that IO's are not important to the game, I feel as though they are. Thats just my stand point. They remedy issues with sometimes weaker sets, and allow for more creative options which I enjoy.
3) My INF/Fame/Infamy. Im worried capping it will remove much of what I have earned through play, and grinding, winning CC's etc
~Do I transfer it now?
~Do I give it all to the toons I know Ill unlock?
~If I do give it to those I choose as new mains then do I lose it through a capping system?
(What I am not worried about is my levels 50's as much)
They are all tier 3-4 incarnate. I feel like I could leave them for a while and then return to them eventually without feeling like I have lost something because I did a lot of conent with them and really there is nothing new for them now.
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So sad and funny at the same time. My main is a Grav/FF/Psi Controller. Rift-Dancer, and she is my oldest toon. She also won the global CC contest for the custom AE arch, and now, she is or will be locked.|
Originally Posted by Dark Sweater
What you will lose access to it any character who is a Controller!!!!!!(which for 2 months of absence is not worth it IMO).
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I dunno...
I know I am just echoing my frustration or concern, but hopefully people can understand why. I'm not like having a tantrum here, Im just hoping that the frustration it's self does not turn me off.
It's to early to tell really, and I wont jump the gun, but I will admit that Im getting a touch sour in the mouth.
Although you all have been really helpfull. Im just glad I went from having 12 controllers to having a decent mix.
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Wrong! They had an Mission Architect Box for sale when it was released.. This was a big selling point as stated... Did you need to purchase to play AE??? No it was given to us... But nonetheless there was a box for the release... I do think there were couple perks in there that you were given (Magic or science booster pack) and 1 month sub to boot
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
They used AE as a selling point since it was a major in game addition and they haven't had a box put out since GvE. Also, makes installing the game less painful when they release new CDs. It was still a free addition, bottom line. It would be different if we actually had to pay for AE.
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Yes...even though I didn't use it much...tried it and stuff but left it eventually, it was a selling feature. It was the release!
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Originally Posted by BadBad_Girl
Wrong! They had an Mission Architect Box for sale when it was released.. This was a big selling point as stated... Did you need to purchase to play AE??? No it was given to us... But nonetheless there was a box for the release... I do think there were couple perks in there that you were given (Magic or science booster pack) and 1 month sub to boot
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I plan ahead and place some cheap bids on IO's at the market and when I reach the appropriate level I slot them and don't worry about reslotting until I hit the 30's
Free/Premium players will presumably be in this situation again where they will struggle to keep fully slotted (Though I don't know exactly how hampered they are going to be in terms of drops)