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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Nope. Players that used to cancel their subs didn't get any access at all to the game.
Before Freedom when I canceled a sub I lost all access to any boosters I paid for on that account anyway. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You always needed to subscribe to access the incarnate system.
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However, if you paid your subscription but didn't buy GR you didn't get access to the incarnates. If you wanted to use the incarnate system you HAD to buy GR. Hence you PAID real money for the incarnate system. Saying otherwise is an outright lie. Whether it was released at the same time, as planned mind, or not you still HAD to pay for it extra to your sub.
Edit: Also, for anyone saying the incarnates aren't part of GR, can you find me a link to official information on the incarnate system that ISN'T on the GR page? Because the only place I can find the incarnate info is there.
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And now, all subscribers get GR for free - another VIP perk |
Originally Posted by Diggis
So what? I mean really? So what? Yes, if you didn't subscibe you didn't get anything... we all know this.
However, if you paid your subscription but didn't buy GR you didn't get access to the incarnates. If you wanted to use the incarnate system you HAD to buy GR. Hence you PAID real money for the incarnate system. Saying otherwise is an outright lie. Whether it was released at the same time, as planned mind, or not you still HAD to pay for it extra to your sub. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Ummm, whut? I'm saying that you have to have GR to access the incarnate system, therefore have paid for it. And therefor disputing the Dev's assertion that you don't lose access to anything you paid for. |
Originally Posted by Dark Sweater
False logic. GR => Incarnate doesn't imply Incarnate => GR. Incarnate still requires GR, and GR is given for free to VIP's. GR never required incarnate, and still doesn't.
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And to offset the comments about wanting everything for free, I have 2 accounts and will be keeping them VIP. I just think it's a bit rich. Best option to me would be allow access to the system, but charge for the individual power slots and or trials.
Let's be honest. Will Incarnates be locked away from premium forever? Maybe not, but for now it is and will remain a VIP perk. Again, this is an argument made by people who no longer wish to support a hobby they have until now. Seems like a nice twist of a knife in the back if you ask me.
You do get points, by purchasing off the market. Just because it's not the same as the other two doesn't mean it's not there. This is CoH not those other two development teams.
Yes, the Incarnate content is linked the the Going Rogue site, but it not linked to the box which makes it an amendum after the fact. The content for the system is updated here and the GR site because you need access to the expansion to utilize it, nothing more.
And if the system is ever released to the Premium tier it will probaly have a monthly licence requirement and not a cheap one. Also, since it does involve a fair amount of crafting expect them to insist you have monthly access to the Invention System as well.
As always, Premium was never meant to be a substitute for your monthly subscription.
((Edit: The Big W will never switch to any hybrid model unless it's subscriber base is truly threatened. ATM, what with that company's ethics in cash grabbing, that is doubtful for the foreseeable future. Also, please don't compare CoH, DDO, and LotR to CO, that game is an abomination.))
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Think what you want. You didn't buy Incarnates with Going Rogue, and you're not getting them for free when they grant everyone Going Rogue access with Freedom. That was explicitly stated many times. Going Rogue was *always* said to not include the Incarnate system proper, because it was always stated that Going Rogue was going to get a sneak peak at the Incarnate system that was coming later. That's why you had to own GR to access the Incarnate system: it was originally intended to unlock the Alpha sneak peak.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
So what? I mean really? So what? Yes, if you didn't subscibe you didn't get anything... we all know this.
However, if you paid your subscription but didn't buy GR you didn't get access to the incarnates. If you wanted to use the incarnate system you HAD to buy GR. Hence you PAID real money for the incarnate system. Saying otherwise is an outright lie. Whether it was released at the same time, as planned mind, or not you still HAD to pay for it extra to your sub. |
But you don't say that something includes a feature *and* a sneak peak at the same feature. That's nonsensical. We all knew Incarnates were coming later, we all knew GR originally intended to have just a sneak peak at it which was later withdrawn, and anything else is revisionist history on a level of "the devs said powerset customization was impossible." Repeat the lie often enough, and people start to remember it as the truth, even when it never happened.
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| Edit: Also, for anyone saying the incarnates aren't part of GR, can you find me a link to official information on the incarnate system that ISN'T on the GR page? Because the only place I can find the incarnate info is there. |
And incidentally, if you go to the Going Rogue site today, you'll see under "featured content" City of Heroes Freedom. Are you going to object next that Freedom is part of Going Rogue as well?
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Nope, but the incarnates is under Game Info. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
And incidentally, if you go to the Going Rogue site today, you'll see under "featured content" City of Heroes Freedom. Are you going to object next that Freedom is part of Going Rogue as well?
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While I can see where you are coming from I don't entirely agree with the stance. As GR is a prerequisite you had to buy it to access Incarnate content. Regardless as to whether it was included or not.
Unless there is another way to access incarnate content without buying GR Incarnate access was something you have to pay for. It came as part of the bundle.
That's right they did add that and also it comes with restrictions to chat and the auction house, even the mail system. Sounds familiar.... But only to level 20 in a game that now tops at 85, 90 with the next expansion. Currently that means I'm missing 65% of that game right? Nope, Big W vet here. The end game is a gear grind through a host of dungeons and raids which again, you must subscribe to utilize. Roughly speaking, that game's new trial leaves out aout 90% of the game. Oh, and let's not forget that there you still have to buy the individual expansions in addition to the subscription. Wait, I forgot, Premium players will have to do that. Lots of similarities at present. If the Big W does go to a model it will likely be very similar to CoH.
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But can you play for free? Or at least without paying any money. Is the gameplay without cost. Because if I know its an F2P game then I know what to expect. I don't want to subscribe unless I can play for free. If I can play for free, then I'll subscribe. I hope they make the game free to play because then they'll have more subscribers.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
TOR will also need to add a hybrid subscription model, as the market has shifted a lot during its development phase, and it's payment model is now looking slightly out of date.
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I think you might be right....|
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Guys, I think you broke Arcanaville again.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But can you play for free? Or at least without paying any money. Is the gameplay without cost. Because if I know its an F2P game then I know what to expect. I don't want to subscribe unless I can play for free. If I can play for free, then I'll subscribe. I hope they make the game free to play because then they'll have more subscribers.
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They're certianly going to need all the subscribers they can get |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But can you play for free? Or at least without paying any money. Is the gameplay without cost. Because if I know its an F2P game then I know what to expect. I don't want to subscribe unless I can play for free. If I can play for free, then I'll subscribe. I hope they make the game free to play because then they'll have more subscribers.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I don't think y'all actually broke Arcanaville - but you did break the limiter on her sarcasm device. It's gone into overdrive.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Completely irrelevant argument to the topic at hand.|
Originally Posted by Death_Badger
Except that LOTRO and DDO both let you earn the points to buy stuff in the shop while playing the game.
And neither LOTRO or DDO is the biggest success F2P at the minute. In fact they are nowhere near the top of the list. Maple Story has in excess of 95 million accounts. |
What I was replying to was the increasingly shrill cries that "OH NO! Gaming sites are calling CoX F2P, which will TOTALLY DESTROY people who expect to play it absolutely for free!!"
Mingled with cries of "CoX can't be hybrid, it's exactly the same as LOTRO and DDO, and THEY'RE marketed as F2P and not hybrid!"
The point is that the MMO community (which will consider LOTRO and DDO F2P) will ALSO consider CoX F2P - and it is F2P in the EXACT SAME WAY. No one is going to be in for any rude shocks when they find out they actually have to pay for some content, because that's EXACTLY the way the F2P MMOs already on the market work.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is just, as Arcanaville has said, looking to get the whole game without a sub. It's disingenuous to argue on behalf of these hypothetical and stupid gamers who are rudely shocked that the free version of CoX doesn't offer ALL the content for free and never bothered to look up what it DOES offer.
... and I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny.
What will you do without unrestricted Free2Play?
Subscribe?
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Last image is busted Arcana!
That's cos Arcanaville is a dirty hotlinker.
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Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Arcanaville answered this better than I could. Not a high hurdle unfortunately.|
Originally Posted by Manoa
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Originally Posted by Manoa
As I recall from Beta, the Judgement, Interface, Lore and Destiny slots of the incarnate system were intended to be released with Going Rogue; however, they weren't ready before Going Rogue's release. As to not release something that wasn't ready, the developers released Going Rogue with just the Alpha Slot and postponed release of the remaining slots until Issue 20.
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger
Incarnates were advertised as part of Going Rogue, they removed them after the original design of the Alpha slot proved to be rubbish
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=229365 The fact that they are currently linked to the purchase of GR clearly shows that they are a part of GR |
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Originally Posted by Positron
That last point was something that we got great feedback on in the GR Closed Beta. Even though it was just a sneak peak, the Alpha Slot doesn't benefit the player in a way that we had envisioned it would. Because of this feedback we have decided to act sooner rather than later. ...snip... We still want to do an Alpha Slot Sneak Peek, but we want it to happen once more of the system and content are closer to being ready for prime time. |
And I don't believe the Alpha slot at the time was rubbish, it was just useless. There was no Incarnate content that actually let you do anything.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Eventually she's just going to be responding in condescending grunts and hand gestures.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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And we know what that hand gesture will be...
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Eventually she's just going to be responding in condescending grunts and hand gestures.
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F2P games are #1!
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Originally Posted by Feycat
And we know what that hand gesture will be...
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Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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There are two ways I can see this working well:|
Originally Posted by Black Zot
Developers have been trying since before MMOs existed to squelch farmer spam. Every single effort has failed miserably. NCSoft is living in a dream world if they think any system they come up with (including this hamfisted joke) won't be circumvented within a month or two.
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1) Add enhancements cheaply to the store. That way, people can buy what they like and Paragon Studios reaps the benefit.
2) revamp the invention system. Make it more attractive to play with and there would be no perceived need for "farming" in the first place.
You don't combat exploitive behavior by attempting to squash it, you make the gameplay more attractive.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
F2P games are #1!
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1) Enhancements are available cheaply in the in-game stores. They're called SOs, and the game is actually BALANCED AROUND THEM. Inventions are unnecessary perks and in no way mandatory for anyone. |
Originally Posted by Myrmydon
There are two ways I can see this working well:
1) Add enhancements cheaply to the store. That way, people can buy what they like and Paragon Studios reaps the benefit. 2) revamp the invention system. Make it more attractive to play with and there would be no perceived need for "farming" in the first place. You don't combat exploitive behavior by attempting to squash it, you make the gameplay more attractive. |
1a) Uncommon IO recipes are going to be available in the Paragon store.
2) What exactly do you think is currently wrong with the invention system that needs revamping? There is no "need" for farming currently except what people WANT to have. Our NEEDS are supplied by SOs. If you choose to engage in a system above and beyond SOs, then it's your choice what you're willing to do, in order to do so.
Farming is not exploitative behavior unless cheats or hacks are used. Attractiveness of gameplay is not the issue. WANT IT NAO!!! mindsets are the issue.
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If they are not manditory or required, then there is no reason we shouldn't be able to buy all of them if we prefer to.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
1) Enhancements are available cheaply in the in-game stores. They're called SOs, and the game is actually BALANCED AROUND THEM. Inventions are unnecessary perks and in no way mandatory for anyone.
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| 1a) Uncommon IO recipes are going to be available in the Paragon store. |
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| Farming is not exploitative behavior unless cheats or hacks are used. Attractiveness of gameplay is not the issue. WANT IT NAO!!! mindsets are the issue. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
To sum up:
Death Badger wants to be able to buy permanent access to Incarnate Content as a Premium player.
I see no problem with him requesting this.
I'm sure the coming weeks will give the Devs data they will be able to use to determine whether to honor that request.
I think that covers it.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!