Ideas for Further Customization: Weapon Pools!


Anti_Proton

 

Posted

I was thinking of famous comic-book heroes, and got to realizing, "Hey! A lot of heroes and villains have minor weapons aside from their main ones!"

This got me to come up with a small group of weapon pools:

Thrown blades (Batman's Batarangs)

T1: Quick Throw: Ranged Weak Lethal DMG
T2: Disarming Strike: Ranged Tiny Lethal DMG, -ToHit
T3: Aimed Throw: Ranged Mod. Lethal DMG
T4: Blade Flurry: Short Cone Weak Lethal DMG

Pistol (Deadpool et al.)

T1: Single Shot: Ranged Weak Lethal DMG
T2: Warning Shot: Ranged Tiny Lethal DMG, Foe Fear
T3: Aimed Shot: Ranged Mod. Lethal DMG
T4: Empty Clip: Ranged Mod. Lethal DMG, Foe KD

Sword/Knife (Truth in Television, in that many soldiers receive training in such)

T1: Hack: Melee Weak Lethal DMG
T2: Pommel*: Melee Tiny Lethal DMG, Foe Stun
T3: Wide Slash: Melee Cone Weak Lethal DMG
T4: Vital Stab: Melee Mod. Lethal DMG, -Def
*(Hitting with the butt of you blade, where we get "pummel")

Shield (Captain America would technically be a Martial/Will Scrapper)

T1: Phalanx Fighting: Auto Self +Def (Melee, Ranged, AoE)
T2: Raise Shield: Toggle Self +Def(All Except Psionics)
T3: Shield Slam: Melee Mod. DMG, Foe KD
T4: Take Cover: Toggle Self +Res(Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, AoE)

Club (Pretty much any Gang member or Caveman)

T1: Bash: Melee Weak DMG
T2: Limb Shot: Melee Weak DMG, -ToHit, -Movement
T3: Slam: Melee Weak DMG, Foe Stun
T4: Crunch: Melee Mod. DMG, Foe KB

Bow (No examples come to mind... But it fits with the others)

T1: Snapshot: Ranged Weak Lethal DMG
T2: Ice Arrow: Ranged, Foe Hold, -Recharge, -SPD
T3: N2O Arrow: Ranged TAoE Foe Sleep, -DMG
T4: Fistful of Arrows: Short Cone Mod. Lethal DMG

EDIT: added the following two sets.

Whip

T1: Snap: Melee Cone, Weak Lethal DMG
T2: Trip: Short Range ST, Tiny Lethal DMG, Knockdown
T3: Crack: Melee ST, Moderate Lethal DMG
T4: Swing: Wide Cone, Moderate Lethal DMG

Rifle

T1: Slug: Ranged, Weak Lethal DMG
T2: Vital Shot: Ranged, Weak Lethal DMG, Tiny Lethal DoT, -Def
T3: Grapeshot: Cone, Weak Lethal DMG, -Res
T4: BOOMSTICK!: Short Range. High Lethal DMG(Very inaccurate)

Other Edit:

Magic Blast|Wand

T1: Mystic Bolt: Ranged, Weak Energy DMG, Foe KB
T2: Magic Haze: Toggle, Self -visibility, weak +Def
T3: Eldritch Blast: Ranged, Moderate Energy DMG, Foe KB
T4: Confounding Spell: TAoE, Foe weak Confuse

Laser

T1: Single Shot: Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe Knockdown
T2: Energy Shield: Toggle, Self +Def
T3: Cutting Beam: Ranged Cone: Moderate Energy DMG, -DEF
T4: Blinding Flash: Minor Energy DoT, Foe Blind

Edit the third:

Staff

T1: Mercurial Blow: Melee (Minor DMG[Smashing], Foe -Def)
T2: Guarded Spin: Melee[Cone] (Moderate DMG[Smashing], Self +Def[Smashing, Lethal])
T3: Serpent's Reach: Ranged[Short] (High DMG[Smashing], Foe Knockdown)
T4: Innocuous Strikes: Melee[Cone] (Moderate DMG[Smashing], Foe Immobilize, -SPD)
These pools would be customizable.


Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.

 

Posted

You forgot rifle

I adore this idea, and have also often suggested this as an added variant for Epic pools. We have a ton of non-weapon epics, so it only makes sense to have a few weapon-specific ones. It would solve the issue of wanting, say, Pistol Scrappers or Sword Blasters, even if the solution won't always be ideal. I'd use them, for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Power Pools for custom secondary powers would be really cool.

I know so many toons who could use a pistol, or a knife.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
Shield (Captain America would technically be a Martial/Will Scrapper)

T1: Shield Throw: Ranged Weak DMG, Foe Stun
T2: Raise Shield: Toggle Self +Def(All Except Psionics)
T3: Shield Slam: Melee Mod. DMG, Foe KD
T4: Take Cover: Toggle Self +Res(Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold)
One big issue... Shield throw was nixed for the actual shield set, because it stepped on Marvel's toes with Captain America's copyright. In short, if Shield Defense didn't get it, a power pool certainly won't.

That aside, the idea is not without merit... it certainly would make those Sword & Gun characters more feasible... but I wouldn't hold my breath.


-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-

 

Posted

I love the concept, good suggestion!


 

Posted

Been wanting this for ages!!! Especially for my characters who have to use temporary weapon powers for their concept. Shessh.

/signed


 

Posted

I REALLY like this idea. It'd help me keep my 'non-super' characters in theme without the use of "SCIENCE!" to help explain what they can do.


"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds View Post
One big issue... Shield throw was nixed for the actual shield set, because it stepped on Marvel's toes with Captain America's copyright. In short, if Shield Defense didn't get it, a power pool certainly won't.
Shield Throw was nixed because the only way it could be done would be to throw a generic shield model (not the one attached to your arm), while the one attached to you arm stayed there. They decided that would look stupid, and gave us Shield Charge instead.


@Roderick

 

Posted

I have always supported this idea, and continue to do so.


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Posted

While it's a nice idea I think this is the reason they added the weapon temp powers.


 

Posted

Want naow, please
/Signed


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds View Post
One big issue... Shield throw was nixed for the actual shield set, because it stepped on Marvel's toes with Captain America's copyright. In short, if Shield Defense didn't get it, a power pool certainly won't.

That aside, the idea is not without merit... it certainly would make those Sword & Gun characters more feasible... but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
Shield Throw was nixed because the only way it could be done would be to throw a generic shield model (not the one attached to your arm), while the one attached to you arm stayed there. They decided that would look stupid, and gave us Shield Charge instead.
Both valid points...I'll edit the OP.


Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
While it's a nice idea I think this is the reason they added the weapon temp powers.
You mean the revolver and the baseball bat? Weapon temps are not customizable, they're not slottable and there really aren't very many of them. Personally, I'd like to see proper pools/epics with proper customization. Honestly, aside from the cost of investment, I see no real downside to this. Power names, numbers and effects can be debated. I just want a pair of handguns for my Scrapper and a rifle for my Brute.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

I like the concept but not the execution the range sets end up with few if any utility powers and most builds are crazy tight already


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds View Post
One big issue... Shield throw was nixed for the actual shield set, because it stepped on Marvel's toes with Captain America's copyright. In short, if Shield Defense didn't get it, a power pool certainly won't.
No, Shield Defense didn't get a shield throw power because the set is about using your shield to defend yourself, and you CAN'T use the shield to defend yourself if you've thrown it at an enemy. And it didn't get "nixed," there were never any plans for it.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
You mean the revolver and the baseball bat? Weapon temps are not customizable, they're not slottable and there really aren't very many of them. Personally, I'd like to see proper pools/epics with proper customization. Honestly, aside from the cost of investment, I see no real downside to this. Power names, numbers and effects can be debated. I just want a pair of handguns for my Scrapper and a rifle for my Brute.
I like the temporary power approach.

My non-powered Stalker did very well with Stun Grenades and Hand Grenades. She spent most fights scrapping it out with martial Arts, but could always pull these out when warranted. Making them power pools would have made them a per-fight occurrence, which is not very Batman-ish. Using them sparingly was.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony View Post
I like the temporary power approach.
Here's the thing - I want pistols on my Katana Scrapper. And not just any pistols, I want the Match Compensators without laser sight. What do you think my chances are of getting a dual pistol attack that uses this precise pairing of pistols?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

When I came up with the Pistol pool, I meant a single pistol...but a Dual Pistol Version could be very cool.

As for sets, I would imagine some would be mutually exclusive with each other, and with some main sets.

Examples:

Shield: ME with Archery, Trick Arrow, Dual Blades, Shield Defense, Dual Pistols, & Ninjas

Bow: ME with Archery, Dual Blades, Shield Defense, & Ninjas

etc...


Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds View Post
One big issue... Shield throw was nixed for the actual shield set, because it stepped on Marvel's toes with Captain America's copyright. In short, if Shield Defense didn't get it, a power pool certainly won't.
Precedence actually favors game developers on this one. The 800-lb gorilla sports several shield attacks, including a thrown-shield move that is a mainstay of its spec. (And yeah, it has earned its share of Captain America jokes.)


Beyond that, saying that the technique of using a shield as a discus-type weapon (or any other fighting move) can be copyrighted is ludicrous. You might as well try and copyright styles of fencing or unarmed martial arts.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Here's the thing - I want pistols on my Katana Scrapper. And not just any pistols, I want the Match Compensators without laser sight. What do you think my chances are of getting a dual pistol attack that uses this precise pairing of pistols?
I dont know exactly how the costume interface and character database work, but I would guess that every character holds the weapon customisation costume data, ie what type of claws, sword, pistol etc they use. For most characters this is never exposed to editing, and set to default.

It's currently only exposed to the player when they have certain appropriate primary/secondary power sets. Its possible that the costume creator could also show this data if the character had an appropriate temporary power.

That would give you the cosmetic customisation you desire, without wobbling the jelly of inter-archetype/powerset balance.

This may not be possible, be similarly, opening up costume customisation based on power pools may not be possible.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony View Post
I dont know exactly how the costume interface and character database work, but I would guess that every character holds the weapon customisation costume data, ie what type of claws, sword, pistol etc they use. For most characters this is never exposed to editing, and set to default.
Not quite. Characters have a "weapon slot" and they only save anything to that slot if they have a weapon in it. Kind of like how not every character has data saved in his costume file for a cape if said character doesn't have a cape.

Furthermore, all existing Temp powers use props from the powers system, not weapon customisation costume items. The revolver in the Revolver Inventions Temp power is not a costume item, it's a prop no different from Fire Sword, Stone Mallet or Hurl Boulder. It's the same between all three models because it's the same one prop set by the power, rather than a costume piece placed on the player's costume. Temp power weapons are, therefore, not customizable, and I highly doubt they ever will be.

That's my point - relying on temp powers is not a good solution. These aren't customizable, they aren't subject to slotting and they run out. Having these as actual Epic powersets would solve a lot of these problems as even for lack of a power customization interface for them, weapons from Epic sets can already be rigged to be customizable, as the weapon from Munitions Mastery is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

I support this. Even some of my super powered characters could use a rifle or a knife at times.


 

Posted

I'd support this as either standard Power Pools or APPs.


 

Posted

I would like to see more guns, swords, knives, and bows and temp powers.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

Posted

They were meant to be Standard pools, as any old schlub could pick up a gun or knife, whereas APPs and PPPs are a special group of powers only available to the mighty heroes and villains. I suppose Munitions may walk the line there a little, but they seem to represent the more high-end weaponry, where my pools are just the standard weapons.


Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.