News from PAX
Alternate solo paths for Incarnate content is... well, alternate. An addition. Not part of the original design.
Did we ever get clarified if the 7-day timer is per arc or per character?
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We do know that the game currently includes multiple forms of long single-character cooldowns; the weekly strike target cooldown, for example, is almost identical to this upcoming reward cooldown on signature arcs. I would be very surprised if this was _not_ an arc-per-character cooldown like the WST.
Edit: I have no idea how the WST cooldown is currently implemented in code, but the effect is to only get that reward once per week per character (per TF?) rather than once per week per TF.
Edit again: ...and it only just occurred to me that you might mean 'across all arcs for a single character' rather than 'across all characters in the account', which is an important distinction. Is it possible for a rogue/vigilante to get WST rewards twice by doing both the TF and the SF? If not, then I'm going to assume that we get the upgraded rewards once per character per week for doing any of the signature arcs, but only for the first (or first N, like tips.) Yeah, something that needs to fleshed out in detail by the devs.
One forum name, two members: Molly Hackett & Heliphyneau.
AE arcs:
27327 - Enter the Homunculi
176837 - Homunculi 2: Tectonic Boogaloo -- UPDATED
Trials are the core Incarnate content, and way more complex than solo arcs - so the Trials needed to be planned first
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The Praetor Guard are not a 1-group effort, to most regards. Marauder needed two groups, Siege and Nightstar and even Anti-Matter needed three at max. Could you do them 1 group or so forth? Sure, the trials scale for the size. But in regard to us versus them, at their peak power they aren't going to be easy to handle.
We -need- the trials, horrid as they may be, to have the Incarnate content. Like it or not, they are the backbone to us finishing Tyrant (or whatever may be his fate). No random joe schmoe from Paragon is going to be able to tango with Chimera, Mayhem, Dominatrix, etc. You may last long enough, but you wouldn't be able to avoid defeat.
On an unrelated note (I think): I know the Incarnate storyline is kind of shoddily written, but at least they are giving us more 1group+ content besides Giant Monsters (which can be solo'd), Archvillains (Which can be solo'd), Raids (Hami/Mothership. Mothership has been trio'd and less before.), and invasions (Which are typically done in leagues now).
Is a solo path a nice idea? Hell yeah.
As an alternate, time-locked method sure.
As for the note Rsclark made: Read what he said. By the time we had pushed for it, I21's content was settled. This means in a FUTURE ISSUE (22, 23, or further back), solo path will appear most likely.
![](http://i.imgur.com/XCWq5.png)
No random joe schmoe from Paragon is going to be able to tango with Chimera, Mayhem, Dominatrix, etc. You may last long enough, but you wouldn't be able to avoid defeat.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
Apologies for not responding to this thread earlier. I've been following it most of the weekend, however typing up a response on my phone from the booth was both problematic (due to intermittent wifi connectivity) and unwieldy.
To address some things (including reiteration on that which Positron stated above):
- The Signature Story Arc rewards are not intended to be the solo Incarnate Path. The rewards are there to add even more value (on top of amazing story, unique maps, basically a ton of cool stuff) to SSA's. These missions are repeatable, fun, and a great reason to be a VIP Subscriber.
- We've been gathering your feedback about the Barbarian armor set and will of course pass it along to the art team.
- I completely understand wanting "more" at PAX. The reality is that we had planned to announce "more", including an actual date for headstart. As often occurs in game development, "things happened" and we were not able to announce. It's far better to refrain from committing to a date and avoid having to publicly push it out, especially when there's a lot of moving parts involved. As Posi said at the panel though, the VIP Headstart is coming soon.
Very Soon.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
They can't.
The word "abomination" is public domain. The only way they could get in trouble is if the character himself bears a significant resemblance to Marvel's Abomination. Just from looking at the screenshot.....he doesn't. |
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
I don't know about many players, but i was asking for something to do with my 50s for years. Though that something had nothing to do with required teaming.
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Besides, "many players" != "all players". I'm not silly enough to make that conclusion
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
QFT. Incarnate content was always designed to be End Game Content, ie: raid-centric. It's what many players had been asking for, for years.
Alternate solo paths for Incarnate content is... well, alternate. An addition. Not part of the original design. |
But, the entire idea that an incarnate becomes stronger than they've ever been and that means... there is nothing new of note to tackle with that solo power... just boggles my mind. An incarnate easily equivalent to a team of 8 (at a minimum) can only utilize that power when teamed with 16-24 equally powerful incarnates?
I just cannot fathom why some sort of alternate/solo/small team path wasn't envisioned from the start. It is a logic fail. (And no amount of winkies overcomes it.) A slower pace of rewards is fine and acceptable - we get merits slower for solo arcs than for TF now. I just do not understand the design decision, at all. And I never will.
(That said, I am happy to see something starting to appear with the sig arcs.)
edit: in terms of full disclosure, I enjoy the trials (even Keyes), and I like the story line (mostly - though I'd like to raid the evil resistance too
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
I don't think any of us who want a small group or solo path have ever expected it to be "at the same rate".
We just want something that is actually viable versus the current nigh non-existant snail route. |
The only people who have made any claim about solo/small team Incarnate requests supposedly making progress "at the same rate" are those who argue against it. The people REQUESTING them have - well, basically said the above.
And /signed to the comment that "If you think an alternate path is going to make your trials shrivel up and die, maybe you should look at what's wrong with them."
Apologies for not responding to this thread earlier. I've been following it most of the weekend, however typing up a response on my phone from the booth was both problematic (due to intermittent wifi connectivity) and unwieldy.
To address some things (including reiteration on that which Positron stated above): - The Signature Story Arc rewards are not intended to be the solo Incarnate Path. The rewards are there to add even more value (on top of amazing story, unique maps, basically a ton of cool stuff) to SSA's. These missions are repeatable, fun, and a great reason to be a VIP Subscriber. - We've been gathering your feedback about the Barbarian armor set and will of course pass it along to the art team. - I completely understand wanting "more" at PAX. The reality is that we had planned to announce "more", including an actual date for headstart. As often occurs in game development, "things happened" and we were not able to announce. It's far better to refrain from committing to a date and avoid having to publicly push it out, especially when there's a lot of moving parts involved. As Posi said at the panel though, the VIP Headstart is coming soon. Very Soon. |
I hope you did not get the PAX Pox!!
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
And /signed to the comment that "If you think an alternate path is going to make your trials shrivel up and die, maybe you should look at what's wrong with them."
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Also note: Solo Path does not equal "at the same rate as those who do Trials". Those players will ALWAYS advance through the system faster. Otherwise the Trails will shrivel up and die, and those people who (gasp) like them will never get a chance to run them.
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Raids are worth focusing development time on because not enough people want to do them.
Ha ha.
Maybe Paragon Studios should try gating emotes and costume pieces completely unrelated to PvP behind PvP content. Otherwise the people who enjoy PvP will (gasp) never get to do it.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
I have to chuckle at all the demands for realistic barbarian costumes in a game that is based on a genre of entertainment which is not known for realistic outfits on any of the characters in it.
And defining "realistic" barbarian outfits as "you know, a chainmail bikini like Red Sonja wears" is even funnier. A "realistic" barbarian outfit, for either gender, would consist of poorly tanned hides and a few scraps of cloth attached with rawhide stitching. And footwear? It would be A) Nothing, B) some really badly chafing sandal-type things, or C) some scraps of cloth tied around your feet (mostly worn in winter time) MAYBE you'd see some fur boots, but they'd look like crap. The simple fact is: Barbarians were not known for their tailoring skills. I agree that a fur loincloth should be available for both genders, though. |
Remember, barbarians invented the pants. (or trousers, if you will)
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
However, I have to side with Posi on this one. Inherently, some players are lazy*; they'll take the fastest route to get rewards. Unfortunately, trials need all the people they can get, including the lazy ones. In-game systems need to be designed around all sorts of players, and sometimes you need to force the lazy players to actually work for their rewards.
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But...
I honestly don't get why we're even having this discussion. What Matt Miller said is the basic truth of any MMO, which is that the Team path will always be faster, easier and more lucrative than the solo path, for the simple fact that teaming is a more involving, laborious process and because taming is what any MMO should encourage. That's how things should be. To ask that the solo path be as "fast" as the teaming path, or - worse yet, faster - is never going to be productive. That's not how an MMO works, and I say this as someone who doesn't team much.
Obviously, the solo path has to be less productive. Obviously, the solo path has to be more productive than to be considered pointless. Exactly where it ends up between these two points is up for debate, but the Merits of the Signature Story Arcs are not what's going to draw the line.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is not true. Part of the fun is the reward. They're inexorably tied together. Under your logic, they could take away all rewards in the game and people would still play. After all, if it's fun with the rewards, wouldn't it be just as fun without the rewards?
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What are my rewards for coming up with a new costume? It actually *costs* me (time, in-game and, if a pack is involved, real money.)
What are my rewards for writing up a bio?
What are my rewards for writing stuff up out-of-game?
Those are fun activities with no reward. And people do them.
Part of the fun of the trials is having a whole crapton of people running them. If suddenly half or more of those people went away, it wouldn't be as fun. Not because anything in the trials has inherently changed to make it less fun, but because running them with smaller teams and having to sit there and recruit a lot longer for a trial because it's just easier for everyone to run them solo/everyone is getting the solo rewards anyway means that a lot less people will be running the trials. |
Right now you have "a whole crapton of people" because it's the *ONLY* way of doing it - and by the way, how are all those Keyes runs? It's obviously not being run despite having "a whole crapton of people" to do it. If the other trials couldn't hold up with a true, alternate solo/small team path - there's an issue with the other trials.
I'd say i'm amazed that Posi and crew didn't even *consider* that path, but... I'm not, sadly.
I guess that means that the devs need to take a look at all the new content since I14, because people are still skipping it and heading straight to the AE
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That's why I take Posi's comment as an admission of guilt they know the Trials aren't enjoyed by a larger number of people. People will do what they think is fun. That is an ironclad assertion as old as mankind. If they're afraid people would stop running Trials with no carrot, that should be a sign.
If the people want 'quicker and easier' like the AE, who are the devs to object? I'd rather not be told what kind of content I "should" like because it warrants inferior rewards.
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How the hell did I miss that post?
- We've been gathering your feedback about the Barbarian armor set and will of course pass it along to the art team.
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Speaking of which, I'm not sure I'd mind porting the female costumes onto the male model, save for the high heels, lets men start to look like Him:
![](http://maaretta.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/creep012-powerpuff-girls.jpg)
The rest of the female gear, though, will probably work. Yes, even the corset. Remember that batman guy from the old rotoscoped cartoon Fire and Ice? He had his loin cloth briefs come up to his chest. Sure, he looked goofy, but not all that much, considering the princess spent the whole movie running around in a string bikini.
*edit*
Turns out the dude's name is Darkwolf *snerk* and I couldn't find a decent pic of him, but there is this video of him.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If the people want 'quicker and easier' like the AE, who are the devs to object?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I often run content that is unrewarding. I'm swimming in Inf across many characters and have long ago unlocked my Roman costume parts. Yet I'm always up for an ITF because it's a blast.
That's why I take Posi's comment as an admission of guilt they know the Trials aren't enjoyed by a larger number of people. People will do what they think is fun. That is an ironclad assertion as old as mankind. If they're afraid people would stop running Trials with no carrot, that should be a sign. If the people want 'quicker and easier' like the AE, who are the devs to object? I'd rather not be told what kind of content I "should" like because it warrants inferior rewards. . |
This is why I kinda keep hoping they would consult players more often when adding content. I have to say a lot of recent adds have been rather so so. The ITF is good fun and they just haven't been able to come close to matching it. It doesn't seem so tough to make something as enjoyable and I just don't see why they keep missing the mark. I hate to say it but perhaps they need to change some more devs out at Paragon. The end product has been rather underwhelming lately. I think i12 is still the best issue to date and that was a long time ago.
I thought War Witch had taken the lead dev role? It almost seems Posi is back at the helm. No offence to Posi but I really didn't enjoy his City of system adds for previous years. Install something fun and new...enough with the systems and fluff. I would gladly buy a box expansion that offered 10 high quality TFs over Going Rogue.
That's a straw man of sorts. Incarnate stuff was always designed around end game, trial heavy content (with the exception of the story arc that introduces the Alpha Slot). No illusions were made otherwise that I can remember. What you're asking for is Something Else.
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I guess that means that the devs need to take a look at all the new content since I14, because people are still skipping it and heading straight to the AE
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"People" have been skipping content since before I started in I3 for various reasons. Or do you not remember farms in PI? Should we, using your statement above, "roll back" all the new content since Issue 1 because of it?
And yet people are playing ITFs. People are playing Midnighter arcs. People are playing story arcs. People are playing Kai.People are playing new-Posi. People are playing the arcs re:Protean. People are running tips. People are playing post-I14 content daily. And people are playing PRE-i14 content daily. Hell, AE is mostly unoccupied. I'll see a group (or individual) there every once in a while, the exception being Freedom/Atlas with the farmers there. But that's the exception.
I'd say "try again," but I'd really rather you not.
Not sure where that strawman comment comes from, it wasn't meant as one. Just saying as my post stated. I don't know about the other players but i was looking for 50s content as well, just not team-required, which is true.
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A mix of content, not just raid-raid-raid-grindlittlemonkey-raid. I can't see how that wouldn't have been "expected" to be wanted by the devs.
That's really sad and doesn't make you look good.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork