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It depends really. Ice currently gets the Blaster version of Ice Storm but I think I heard RoF is going to be a Defender specific version rather than the Blaster version. I'm not going for 100% "the best", but things which will have a bit of synergy (Stacked Holds and -Recharge in the case of Ice) and sound interesting.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Hmmm...is Ice Blast enough AOE? That's why I suggested Fire Blast. My next suggestion would likely be Time/RAD Defender, as I recall it having decent AOE and I think being one of the more top tier sets (I dont recall).
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Rad's problem is that the Cone is very narrow and the Tennis Ball of Doom is a bit slow to animate. The PBAOE has nice synergy on paper with Time though (as would Elec actually although Elec doesn't do massive damage and it's secondary effect always gives me slotting dilemmas, it's AOE Blast is quick to animate too).
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You know, I did forget about that! Time Crawl -> Time Stop -> Freeze Ray -> Epic Pool Hold Power -> Repeat...could possibly get that to chain level, slotting Freeze Ray and the Epic Hold Power with a Lockdown and Devastation Proc, Time Stop beign a very short mag 4 hold and also slotted with a Lockdown Proc...Oooooo
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
It depends really. Ice currently gets the Blaster version of Ice Storm but I think I heard RoF is going to be a Defender specific version rather than the Blaster version. I'm not going for 100% "the best", but things which will have a bit of synergy (Stacked Holds and -Recharge in the case of Ice) and sound interesting.
Rad's problem is that the Cone is very narrow and the Tennis Ball of Doom is a bit slow to animate. The PBAOE has nice synergy on paper with Time though (as would Elec actually although Elec doesn't do massive damage and it's secondary effect always gives me slotting dilemmas, it's AOE Blast is quick to animate too). |
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After some reflection of my own, I would be of the opinion that Controllers are probably the archetype best suited to capitalize on what Time Manipulation offers. Controllers, in general, have always been the AT best able to utilize buffs/debuffs because of what their primary does.
That being said, any power can be used to great advantage by anyone who can play well. For instance, I have been toying around with a Beam Rifle & Time Manipulation corrupter. I have had the chance to partner with a few people and do various things where I have seen good results. Mostly, if you get any 2 Time Manipulation characters together, you can see some wild stuff go down.
Ok, well, ya, I'm not totally sure that Controllers are the absolute best on Time Manipulation. I'm sure the other ATs can do things with it that are great. But, my instincts and experience lend themselves to my humble opinion that Controllers can probably make the most of all the tools given the nature of what Controllers do.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
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Oh no! Really? No blaster-ROF? |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
It depends really. Ice currently gets the Blaster version of Ice Storm but I think I heard RoF is going to be a Defender specific version rather than the Blaster version.
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I will go with Ice then. Rad isn't bad, if Time/Rad, skip granny bowling since recharge and defense will be high. Just stand in the middle of the mobs, spam irradiate and basketball toss for AoEs?
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
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I'd go with a Fire/Time Corr instead, but it all depends if you want to be better at support or have more damage. Fire Blast will be one of those sets that are a lot better on Corrs compared to other sets.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Time/Fire Defender.
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Gotta love dat RoF double Scourge!
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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true, but the OP wanted something useful on teams, iTrials, and could solo well. Time on a defender will benefit teams/iTrials more, have more defense, and still do decent damage solo.
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I'd go with a Fire/Time Corr instead, but it all depends if you want to be better at support or have more damage. Fire Blast will be one of those sets that are a lot better on Corrs compared to other sets.
Gotta love dat RoF double Scourge! |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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In my experience, cycling flashfire and cinders is enough to handle the things that can be handled by controller AoE mezzes. It takes an extremely fast group - significantly less than 20 seconds from spawn to spawn - to regularly run a well-built fire controller out of controls, so the advantage of Earth here is only really significant when you have to fight multiple spawns at once e.g. ambushes. That said, I would change my opinion on earth if it could be shown to reliably control bosses. My position holds on all other low-damage control sets (Ice, Mind and Grav) until I see evidence that says otherwise.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Compare that to a Fire/Rad, who can provide decent control with Flashfire+Fire Cages (but it won't control bosses) or Cinders (will control bosses if combined with Char), but those controls won't be up every group.
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| (You did not specifically say that, but I think that's a reasonable interpretation of your comments.) |
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You're confusing objective performance with subjective preference. Things like decent, viable, playable, fun, good, etc. are subjective and vary from player to player. What can be objectively said is whether certain characters perform better than others. Whether or not players chose to make use of that information is up to them, but in a thread titled "Best */Time or Time/*" I expect to have a discussion about the latter and not the former.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Many of the posts in this forum only discuss characters who have been Min-Maxed with the extremely expensive IO sets, PvP sets, and all Tier 4 Incarnates. Many of the posts act as if the only way to make a decent controller is to make a "tankmage" with capped defense.
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Earthquake controls bosses with knockdown. Volcanic Gasses controls bosses by stacking the holds -- each pseudopet geyser is mag 3 but will stack if the holds overlap as long as the power is slotted for hold duration. (Add Quicksand or Stone Cages to keep the bosses in the patch.) Stone Cages has a 50% chance to immobilize a boss. Stone Prison is Mag 4, with a 20% chance for Mag 5, so it will immobilize a boss in one shot. Fossilize is Mag 3 with a 20% chance to add an extra Mag 1 to hold a boss. Stalagmites has a 20% chance to stun a boss. Salt Crystals has a 50% chance to sleep a boss. Quicksand also affects bosses. All that information is on City of Data.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
In my experience, cycling flashfire and cinders is enough to handle the things that can be handled by controller AoE mezzes. It takes an extremely fast group - significantly less than 20 seconds from spawn to spawn - to regularly run a well-built fire controller out of controls, so the advantage of Earth here is only really significant when you have to fight multiple spawns at once e.g. ambushes. That said, I would change my opinion on earth if it could be shown to reliably control bosses. My position holds on all other low-damage control sets (Ice, Mind and Grav) until I see evidence that says otherwise.
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Is that "reliable?" I would say so, but you may not. My experience with Earth control is that bosses and all other foes are usually controlled reliably by layering controls. Once in a while, a boss gets through, but that's not very frequent.
I have been the only controller on a lot of fast moving, experienced teams going through ITFs and STFs and LGTFs. I have felt that my Earth/Rad or Earth/Storm contributes more to the team than my Fire/Rads (I have two of them at 50 on different servers) or my Plant/Rad. The Plant/Kin, on the other hand, spends most of her time buffing the heck out of the team and not controlling much, but those buffs result in a huge increase in speed. On the ITF, my Ice/Storm provides a huge contribution since the foes in that TF resist most controls other than knockdown and slow, and he has lots of knockdown and slow.
On the other hand, if I stack my Fire/Rad with other Fire/Rads, then the Fire/Rads are amazingly effective.
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| Please stop making up rubbish on the spot and falsely attributing it to me (which several other posters have done now). |
If my interpretation was wrong, then go ahead and explain what you meant. But don't indicate that I said anything "false" when I was stating my opinion.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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But "best" and "better" are subjective. If the question was "What power has the best DPE" or something like that, then numbers work. But when you are looking for an overall "best," then playstyle and enjoyment are significant factors in what each person might consider "best." Part of the points I have been trying to make is that the concept of "best" should be broadened to include powersets other than the usual "what does the most damage when you max out everything" discussions.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
You're confusing objective performance with subjective preference. Things like decent, viable, playable, fun, good, etc. are subjective and vary from player to player. What can be objectively said is whether certain characters perform better than others. Whether or not players chose to make use of that information is up to them, but in a thread titled "Best */Time or Time/*" I expect to have a discussion about the latter and not the former.
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Based on my experience, Earth is the "best" AoE control set. On my Earth Controllers, I feel that I'm able to do the things that an outstanding controller can bring to a team, controlling almost all of the foes and providing large debuffs to Defense from my primary, plus all the stuff that my secondary brings. The overall benefit to the team is greater, I feel, than if I brought along a scrapper to a team that already does a lot of damage. Some people love Ice controllers for the melee mitigation they can do. Some folks like Electric Control for the layered approach of Sleep+Confuse+Immob+Knockdown+Endurance Drain.
When I started in this game in Dec. 2004, Controllers were the last of the 5 main archtypes I tried because they didn't do any significant damage. I had no way of knowing that Controllers would become my favorite. Folks need to see that there are a lot of options and that "best" for one person may not be "best" for another.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
With Time manipulation coming out, which looks really cool, I'm looking to make the best time manipulator that I can.
I really loathe asking this on the boards, but I'd like to ask what power set out there that can go with TM to make the most effective character.
'Most effective' meaning most useful in incarnate trials... able to survive and overcome medium sized groups of +1s to +3s.
I'm currently leaning towards a fire/time controller. Although I would have loved to make a grav/time for thematic reasons, I don't think grav/time would be as effective in trials.
Perhaps */TM corruptor or MM would be better?
Opinions?
Are you trying to solo the Itrial? Most effective is different depending on that question. Many people don't team to be a part of the team, but rather team to solo with others. Are you strictly talking running the baf only? Most effective in each scenario varies.
Fire/Time is the most effective at dealing damage on a trial requiring you to be in melee for the most of that damage.
Plant/Time is most effective at providing some good damage with some nice forms of mitigation and a smidge of healing/recovery.
Illusion/Time is most effective as decoy taunting with some good, albeit scattered damage. If it is one target then the damage is amazing but in mobs the PA has a tendency to jump around.
Earth/Time is the most effective at team support and enemy lock down.
Electric/Time is most effective at draining enemies with some nice layers of mitigation.
Ice/Time is most effective at effectively nuetering your enemies recharge and speed with a midge of mitigation knockdown.
Gravity/Time is most effective at long animations and the king of all pets for helping to lock down stuff.
On Itrials I find damage is usually there in spades. You got scrappers/brutes/blasters for that. IMO the most effective toon on a trial (from the ones I've run) are the most balanced toons.
IOs were not considered as part of my thoughts. Those change things a lot depending on what type of player you are. I do not knock min/max as there is a certain art to it. I do not think that if you have to say my Xxx/Xxx rocks with soft cap, and tier 4 everything kicks ***, then it is not a performance of the character. Since every toon in the game can have those same stats (more or less).
Even a gravity toon with soft cap and tier 4 everything will be bad ***.
I did not include Defender/MM/Corruptor pairings as this is the troller boards. It should be fairly solid on a MM , tho MMs have varied performances on trials since pets eat carpet rather quickly sometimes, especially on the keyes.
Sorry OP if I did not give a clear cut answer as to most effective. Without knowing what type of play style you prefer I tried to give a small snippet into some of the combos and there fields of effectiveness.
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I think /time will be very effective with every primary because time does a little bit of everything. It heals, it buffs, it debuffs, it has some control, and it has what might be the best +recharge ability in the game(and what controller doesn't want +recharge). I think fire and illusion deserve special mention, fire because it has the abilities to safely use hotfeet in a crowd of debuffed enemies, and illusion because it has all the tools to make PA great(-res, -def, +recharge) while also covering the hard control weakness illusion has a bit.
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Originally Posted by Sagamemnon
With Time manipulation coming out, which looks really cool, I'm looking to make the best time manipulator that I can.
I really loathe asking this on the boards, but I'd like to ask what power set out there that can go with TM to make the most effective character. 'Most effective' meaning most useful in incarnate trials... able to survive and overcome medium sized groups of +1s to +3s. I'm currently leaning towards a fire/time controller. Although I would have loved to make a grav/time for thematic reasons, I don't think grav/time would be as effective in trials. Perhaps */TM corruptor or MM would be better? Opinions? Are you trying to solo the Itrial? Most effective is different depending on that question. Many people don't team to be a part of the team, but rather team to solo with others. Are you strictly talking running the baf only? Most effective in each scenario varies. Fire/Time is the most effective at dealing damage on a trial requiring you to be in melee for the most of that damage. Plant/Time is most effective at providing some good damage with some nice forms of mitigation and a smidge of healing/recovery. Illusion/Time is most effective as decoy taunting with some good, albeit scattered damage. If it is one target then the damage is amazing but in mobs the PA has a tendency to jump around. Earth/Time is the most effective at team support and enemy lock down. Electric/Time is most effective at draining enemies with some nice layers of mitigation. Ice/Time is most effective at effectively nuetering your enemies recharge and speed with a midge of mitigation knockdown. Gravity/Time is most effective at long animations and the king of all pets for helping to lock down stuff. On Itrials I find damage is usually there in spades. You got scrappers/brutes/blasters for that. IMO the most effective toon on a trial (from the ones I've run) are the most balanced toons. IOs were not considered as part of my thoughts. Those change things a lot depending on what type of player you are. I do not knock min/max as there is a certain art to it. I do not think that if you have to say my Xxx/Xxx rocks with soft cap, and tier 4 everything kicks ***, then it is not a performance of the character. Since every toon in the game can have those same stats (more or less). Even a gravity toon with soft cap and tier 4 everything will be bad ***. I did not include Defender/MM/Corruptor pairings as this is the troller boards. It should be fairly solid on a MM , tho MMs have varied performances on trials since pets eat carpet rather quickly sometimes, especially on the keyes. Sorry OP if I did not give a clear cut answer as to most effective. Without knowing what type of play style you prefer I tried to give a small snippet into some of the combos and there fields of effectiveness. |
To TheOOB, I agree whole heartedly with you. It compliments every set differently making for some over all great combos. Not OMGIWIN combos like some other pairings, but still very strong.
OK, so I tried out my beloved elec/time troller. Well, I can lay down enormous amounts of control. However, I lay down pathetic levels of damage. If you dont mind not actually killing things, it can be amazingly fun to control a huge mob of nastys. It just doesnt lay down damage.
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Hew in drag baby
Basically it'll come down to Scourge vs earlier and more potent Time powers. Scourge is gold with Rain powers and vs AVs.
Which version of Rain of Fire are defenders getting? The Blaster version, a la Ice Storm or a normalized version specific to Defenders?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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