TheOOB
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Quote:I have those, but I also took recall friend, a power I'd rather not loose(I'd lose CJ before it).Originally Posted by AWRocketman
I'm not sure I'd classify a nearly 20% to-hit debuff and 20% damage debuff as "a little mitigation." Not to mention that it's a spot for 5% more +rech.
The questions is, why is it either/or? I've worked out a build that easily fits both in. I've got everything from the secondary and every primary except one of the invisibility powers. I've also got Hasten, CJ, Hover and four epic pool powers.
You have to remember that the closer you get to the defense softcap, the higher percent of the damage you take each point of defense takes off. I made the decision that softcapping defense and getting an additional 7.5% recharge as better than a resistable To-Hit debuff that only works when I'm in melee(and I'm not usually in melee) and costs extra end. You may come to a different conclusion in power selection than me, but I assure you, Time's Juncture is skippable(note skippable doesn't mean bad, or that you should skip it, only that you can skip it and not harm the integrity of your build) -
Quote:I never said you couldn't compare the two powers, I said your comparison was worthless. You basically said that not taking Time's Juncture was like not talking Darkest Night, which is wrong. If you are playing ranged, Darkest Night is a clearly superior power, and if you are playing melee than I could see arguments for either.Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Well if you're not able to get the compare/contrasts of TJ and DN, there's not much more I can offer you at this point. The fact that you value CJ over a major debuff is enough reason to sign off the topic.
I took CJ to get global recharge, which the build needs, and to softcap S/L defense, which is better than a little mitigation from Time's Juncture. My build is not the only build, but the power is skippable for illusion, and you're not wasting time if you don't take it. -
There are some definite problems with this build. As mentioned above you have no AoE control. I could see skipping flash maybe in a tight build(though I'd advise against any controller skipping their AoE hold), but you skipped spectral terror which is one of the best moves in the set. Not only did you skip spectral terror, but you took Distortion Field, which honestly does Spectral Terror's job worse(but together they are almost as good as having another AoE hard control ability, so I'd take both).
You also skipped Temporal Selection, which is a shame because I think the buffs are the strongest part of Time, temporal selection is a huge buff, even just on phantasm, and it makes for some very impressive healing in groups.
You took the concealment pool, which is a big no-no for Illusion Controllers, you have the two best stealth powers in the game, so why would you take the much worse pool versions? Heck you even have super speed allready(which for much the same reason is the worst Illusion travel, but to each their own). You could have gotten another LotG mule with hover, which doubles as an actually useful power, and if you really really needed a 5th you could take an Epic that has a defense shield. Heck, as it is you have more than 5 LotG +recharge.
You are also sacrificing a ton for that softcapped defense. You don't have all your control powers, you don't have that amazing To-Hit debuff in Time's Juncture, yet you are devoting 3 powers to what amounts to a small defense buff(weave). If you're playing a perma PA build you shouldn't be targeted by your foes that often at all. -
Quote:It's a completely worthless comparison. It's like a fire/fire blaster comparing fire sword with blazing bolt. Sure they both do damage, but otherwise they are completely different moves and depending on your build one may be a way more useful power than the other.Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Did you intend to show how the comparison "hurts my argument"? To you, do two powers have to be identical to be comparable? Here's the answer - no, otherwise you wouldn't need to make a comparison. Bottom line - they both debuff damage and tohit. That is a very real, valid comparison and just saying "one's in melee the other isn't" doesn't negate it.
I then explained the difference quite clearly, one is a fire and forget type ability that affects the enemy the whole encounter no matter your positioning, one is an ability that requires you to stay close to the enemy, which is not always the best tactical position to be in, even with the debuff the benefits for being at a range often outweigh the benefits of the debuff.
If controllers ever get dark miasma, I would never skip darkest night, but with time I'd rather have the recharge and defense form combat jumping or hover than Time's Juncture.
Don't get me wrong, I think the power a great, I just personally do not like using it with Illusion Control, and I believe that Time still has a ton to offer Illusion Control without that power. -
Quote:If soft-capped defense are your goal, Primal Mastery is a poor choice, because Power Boost only gives about 11% defense to Farsight, while all the defense shield provide more than that even before being enhanced. Take Primal Mastery because you want to squeeze out extra control out of your powers from Power Boost, and want extra mitigation from knockback/down.Originally Posted by DragonTiger
-Power boost-All sorts of goodness here, not the least of which is soft-capped defenses.
I won't claim to be an expert, but Soul Mastery is not the best PPP out there, two of it's moves are long recharge moderate damage PBAoEs with buffs attached to them, it has no single target blast, and it has perhaps the worst PPP pet.
Leviathan Mastery can be rather strong if you don't mind the trip redside, Water Spout is an amazing move, and Fire Mastery is good for pretty much any build. -
Quote:I also had time's juncture and I respecced out of it, I never really used it. Don't get me wrong, Time's Juncture is a great power, but it doesn't really have any synergy with Illusion Control. The fact is, with Phantom Army, Phantasm, Spectral Terror, and all your other tools no one should ever really target you in a fight unless you make a mistake(such as getting aggro before your pets can manage the fight), which means you're likely only going to get hit with an attack if you're caught in it's area, which is much more likely if you are in melee.Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
No, I'm not implying it, I'm stating it outright. It's a great debuff and I would equate skipping, or not using it, as analogous to a Dark Miasma user that omits or doesn't use Darkest Night, as both do -dmg and -tohit, with TJ also affecting -rch (I think) and -speed.
While it's true Time's Juncture is a great mitigation tool, an Illusion Controller at a range just doesn't get hit with enough attacks to need that extra mitigation, and going into melee with Time's Juncture will usually subject you to more damage than if you had been at a range without it. Similar powers, such as hurricane, usually only require you to tap an enemy with the aura every once in awhile, but to use Time's Juncture you must constantly be in melee with your foes. Furthermore, if you get mezzed because you where in melee, you lose Time's Juncture and are really screwed.
So, Illusion doesn't benefit strongly from Time's Juncture, but it still benefits from the set as a whole, because Chrono Shift and Slowed Response are much stronger powers with Illusion than with other sets(due to how PA works).
Also, just a note, Time's Juncture doesn't affect recharge, and hitting the slow speed cap shouldn't be a problem with time.
Your example comparing the power to Darkest Night really hurts your argument, because the powers are completely different. Darkest Night is a AoE toggled debuff with a very powerful effect, but hampered by a long cast time so it's usually only useful on tougher foes. Time's Juncture is a PBAoE toggle that's cast time is generally irrelevant unless you get mezzed, but requires you to be in melee, which depending on your other power set and build may or may not be a good option. Dark Miasma is a set that relies almost entirely on it's debuffs(and some control) to reduce an enemies fighting abilities, while time relies more of control and powerful buffs.
In short, Time's Juncture is a great power, but I'm not going to go into melee purely for it's benefit. -
If defense is what you are looking for, Primal Mastery is the wrong pool to look at. Power Boost only gives Farsight around 11 extra defense, which is notably less than any of the other epic defense shields even before they are enhanced, when enhanced rock armor can, for example, provide over 20 defense.
Primal Mastery should be taken if you lack good control, so you need power boost to enhance your controls and extra mitigation from the knockback/down.
For fire/time, i think either stone mastery or psionic master is best. Psionic mastery gives you a good blast and PBAoE attack, and a decent shield and mez protection(world of confusion sucks, don't take it).
Stone Mastery gives you a great defense shield, a heal, an amazing melee damage/hold power, and a great melee AoE damage/control power(Hurl Bolder's animation time just isn't worth it).
Even Ice Mastery gives you a blast, an AoE slow/damage field, and a great defense shield. -
If I had to pick I'd go defense shield over resistance shield, both because defense is more useful, and those LotG +recharge enhancements, and the mace mastery shield is one of the best def shields available for contollers.
In a larger team, the ST mace blast could be really strong(as -res would be a big deal), but I'd agree it doesn't make up for the loss of damage for noting having a good ST blast. The other powers are not that impressive, Disruptor Blast is worse than fireball or frost breath(lower damage, annoying KB, commonly resisted damage types), and focused accuracy is too expensive for what it does(and /time shouldn't need extra ToHit.) Time can also get the pet perma without too much trouble, especially if you're going spiritual alpha.
So if you team a lot I think mace mastery could be really strong(better debuffs, more concentration on controlls), but for solo or small group play the blasting powers in fire or cold are really really good. -
Another option if you want to play electric control but don't want to sacrifice damage is to play a dominator. Dominators are great at taking those low damage, high control primaries, and making them deadly.
I'd personally agree the illusion control is one of the funnest, most versatile sets around. Rad and Time pair great with everything, but they pair particularly well with Illusion control(they are the only sets to provide +recharge buffs and -res debuffs).
I've always had a soft spot of fire builds as well, fire/rad can pull off a lot of damage while still controlling well, and fire kin almost feels like you're playing a blapper. -
I'm happy to help, and I'm happy to see my build helped someone. You fit time's juncture in there well. I personally prefer not to use it with an illusion 'troller, but I know it's a great move that fits some peoples play styles. I personally think frost breath is better for this build than ice storm(higher dps, and since it's not DoT it works better with spectral damage from spectral wounds and PA), but ice storm with the knockdown proc adds some nice extra control.
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As Local Man mention, control sets are all very different from one another, and controller secondaries, the defender support sets, are honestly even more different for one another IMO, so there is more variety in controller play styles than any other archtype in the game, so build advice is best given by the set.
I'll agree that recharge is fairly universally important to all controller builds, most controller primary and secondary sets have very powerful high recharge powers you'll want to use as often as possible, and for control powers it's usually more useful to use a power multiple times than it is to make it have a little higher duration(to stack magnitude or control multiple targets quickly). With recharge naturally comes recovery, as you use your (often expensive) powers more often, you need more end to compensate.
Defense is a mixed bag, the melee sets need it more than the other sets(with fire needing it most of all, being a bit weaker on the control than ice or elec), and it's useful for an build, but no matter one no controller should sacrifice their controlling ability for some def. An enemy who is held deals no damage at all. -
Click the button to the right of Chrono Shift to turn the power, on, you'll find you have more recharge in you're build than you think. Hasten in your build is perma with only 1 slot. You're operating with the numbers with chrono shift off which may be why you slotted so much recharge.
Also for chronoshift, if you click on the "effects" panal, you'll see it grants 30% recovery, which is enhanceable with endmod enhancements. Honestly I don't think chronoshifts heal is nearly as important as the recovery. Base it gives you 30% rec but 50% recharge, which means you'll spend more end using it than it gives you, you need to fix that.
Blind holds just fine with 4 basalisk's gaze, and really you're not going to make it any better as a hold power after that, so you might as well boost damage, but it's your call.
As for the price on Basalisk's gaze, I get the quads with alignment merits, in the long run the quad is the best enhancement in the set for most powers. If you want to save money, go ahead, we just bring up ways to make the build better if you have the money.
Slowed response is great out of the box as long as you slot it for Acc, it's one of you're best powers because one of the few ways to increase PA's damage is to reduce an enemies resistance as you can't buff their damage past the ED cap. I use shield breaker mainly for the recovery, and the proc for that chance to debuff resistance extra.
Time's Juncture doesn't need the extra -To-hit, but if you're going to use the power, you might as well enhance it, and there are really good set bonuses from the -To-Hit sets, in particular you can use Dark Watcher's Despair to get some extra recharge, freeing you to use miracle in some healing powers to get recovery.
It is true that defense is not critical for an illusion controller, but you seem to be going two directions at once. You took maneuvers, which is an expensive power that's only real use is to softcap builds, but you didn't slot up frozen armor, so you're bending over backwards to get defense in one power slot, and ignoring it in another. And while defense is not very important, if you allready got the recharge and recovery you need, it's a nice side goal. I managed to get perma PA, hasten, and chrono, a really really good recovery, and softcap defense in my build, and I still got all my control powers and slotted them well.
Assault effects phantasm, but not PA. It's not a bad power, by any means, I just think Illusion Controllers don't get the full value out of it. -
First off, Illusion/Time is a great combo and very fun, I think you'll like it. Secondly, this is actually a really good build for a first attempt, if I seem overly critical below, it's just my nature.
Okay, gonna look through the build and write things as I notice them.
* First off, you got more recharge than you strictly need, once PA, Chrono, and Hasten are all perma, more recharge doesn't really help you, so you may want to switch to some other sets in some powers
* I also feel you don't have enough end tools, some of your powers are underslotted for Endrdx, and you took a lot of sets that provide extra recharge bonuses, when you could have been shoring up your recovery.
* Blind is way under enhanced. It has very little Acc, and very little damage. The Basilisk's gaze proc isn't very useful in blind, if you're holding an enemy why would a small recharge penalty matter. I'd suggest 4 basalik's gaze(no proc) an Acc/Dam Hami-O, and a Damage IO. Making you're power do more damage consistently is better than damage procs in a single target blast.
* Spectral Wounds is also underslotted, as a blast in should have more damage enhancement. Also, you allready have a good heal, so the entropic chaos proc isn't helping you much(if you're going to die without the heal proc, you're going to die with it).
* If you're going to use Time's Juncture, you might want to slot the To-Hit, Dark Watcher's despair is a great set to drop 3 or 4 in. 2 or 3 slots of damped spirits is also a good bet.
* Deceive on the other hand, is over slotted, you're losing pretty much all the benefit of the flat confusion enhancement, and you really don't need that ranged defense boost. If you're looking for defense with Cold Mastery, you should look for S/L defense.
* If you're going to put more than one slot in temporal selection, you might as well get a set bonus from it. I like 2 miracle myself for the recovery
* Distortion Field has too much Acc, which is gains no benefit from. Drop the Acc/Rech and Acc/Hold for the End/Rech/Hold and the Acc/Rech/Hold/End, you'll make the power directly better. Also this is a good place for either the lockdown proc, or any damage procs.
* You could get more damage out of PA by replacing the Acc/Dam you have in there with an Acc/Dam Hami-O if you got the money.
* Your hasten will be perma with just 2 recharge IO's(it will be with 1, but it will only have a couple seconds overlap)
* Unless you team pretty much all the time, Assault isn't worth it, it's kinda expensive, and your most damage power gets no benefit from it.
* Spectral Terror honestly only needs the the Proc form Glimpse of the Abyss, no other slots are needed unless you really need the set bonuses, and honestly you don't need them that much, you could free up a lot of slots for other powers by dropping the power to 1 slot.
* Unless you really need the Acc bonus at 4 slots for LotG, you really should be using End/Def/To-hit HOs for the two slots after your +recharge in Farsight. You'll get more oomph out of the power.
* Maunvers is an expensive power, and way underslotted for end. Unless you need it to softcap def(which you're a long way off of), it's just not worth it. I'd strongly suggest replacing it with either combat jumping(which has almost no end cost), or hover(which is a useful power and can slot universal travel IO's)
* Phantasm is over slotted with damage, and losing it's benefit. You could get the same results with 4 from Expiditant Reinforcements and 1 Acc/Dam HO.
* Slowed Response is one of you're best powers, and it's not really slotted at all. First, it needs some Acc(it's worthless if it won't hit), and the def-debuff is largely irrelevant, with farsight you shouldn't be missing too much as long as you slot acc in you're powers. 2 or 3 from shield breaker would be useful, as would the achiles heel proc.
* Chrono Shift is way overslotted for heal, and has no end slotting what so ever. You need to slot the end mod in the power, I suggest using 2 or 3 performance shifter or efficiency adaptors, in addition to 2 or 3 numina's or miracles.
* If you're going to take frozen armor, you may as well slot it. This is a good place for those 4 LotG to get some Acc.
* I know that you wanted both Sup Invis and Group Invis, but I really don't think you should take both. Neither provides a great deal of defense, and in most cases, either invis works or it doesn't. If you need LotG mules, use hover or combat jumping, heck even maunvers(which I hate on illusion controllers), is better than taking both invis powers. Also, if you're going Cold Mastery, you really should take one of the AoE attacks. I personally prefer Frost Breath.
Anyways, here is my build for contrast. Hope it gives you some ideas.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Decim-Build%(5), Apoc-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Blind -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(7), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9), HO:Nucle(11), Dmg-I(11)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(17), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(17), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(19), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Temporal Mending -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(21), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(21), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), EndRdx-I(23), EndRdx-I(25)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- HO:Golgi(A)
Level 12: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Krma-ResKB(25), Winter-ResSlow(27)
Level 14: Recall Friend -- Range-I(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(27), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(29), HO:Nucle(31), S'bndAl-Build%(31)
Level 20: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33)
Level 22: Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Slow%(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-%Hold(34), ImpSwft-Dam%(36)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Dam%(A)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Membr(36), HO:Membr(36)
Level 30: Flash -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(37), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(37), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), HO:Nucle(40)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(40), Achilles-ResDeb%(40)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(42), Mrcl-Heal(42), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(43), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Ice Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), ImpSwft-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), Ksmt-ToHit+(48)
Level 47: Frost Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany
Level 50: Pyronic Radial Final Judgement
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15)
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In short, the resistance and defense enhancements are a waste of slots.
Phantom Army is completely immune to all damage, or really any effect at all.
Phantasm can be hurt, but it a pretty touch customer over all. He usually hangs back at a range, knocks back those who get too close to him, and has a decoy which tends to get more attention to him. (And PA tends to hold aggro as well). If Phantasm is getting focused enough to kill him without the resist or defense, I don't think a little resistance or defense is going to make a big difference.
The chance for build up proc is great in PA though, with three Decoys all making a lot of attacks it will trigger quite a bit. -
You may want to take a look at this thread, Illusion/Time has been talked about to death there, and my own personal build(which I think is fairly effective), can be found there:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=274074
Anyways, looking over your build, I'm just going to type things as they come to me.
First things first, you're over the "Rule of 5" cap for 6.25% recharge set bonus, which means you should change one of the sets you are using to something else(I'd suggest dropping glimpse of the abyss, you allready got lots of recharge and spectral terror doesn't need that many slots).
You're build is not nearly as end efficient as it could be. You should have a Numia's +regenration/+recovery proc in health, and a Performance Shifter chance of recharge proc in Stamina(I personally think it's worth 4 slotting Performance Shifter in Stamina). You also have plenty of recharge as is, so you may want to use miracle instead of doctored wounds in either temporal mending or chronoshift to get some more recovery. Also you really should be enhancing the endmod in chronoshift
For a build so focused on recharge, I find it odd there is no basalisk's gaze in blind, 4 basalisk's gaze, a Acc/Dam HO, and a Dam IO gives you a strong all around blind and gets you more of those wonderful set bonuses.
If you got the slots, spectral wounds is a great place for procs, escpecially decimation's chance for build up proc.
Time's Juncture is way over the To-Hit ED cap, you may want to switch the To-Hit/Recharge with the proc.
Distortion Field gets no benefit from Acc, and very, very little from Hold, so drop the Acc/Hold for the proc of basalisk's gaze.
I personally like the chance for build up proc in PA, it's really good in there.
Superior Invis only provides around 2.25 def unenhanced, so enhancing the defense is not needed or helpful. After the LotG the only thing it needs is Endrdx, and only if you plan on using it during combat.
The third HO in Farsight is giving you less than 1% in defense, and barely over 1% in To-Hit, if you really need the To-Hit you'd be better served putting a kismet +acc in a power.
Your build isn't any wheres close to softcap defense, and manuvers is kinda expensive end wise. If you want a mule for LotG, combat jumping is a much better choice(costs very little end and still provides some def). Remember that def isn't very important for an illusion controller, so I don't think it's ever a good trade to get manuvers for some def.
The recharges are not doing a lot in Slowed Responses, honestly with how much global recharge you got a single Acc IO would be sufficient.
Personally I'm not a fan of Primal Mastery. I think Fire or Cold Mastery is the best APP for illusion controllers(and I think Cold is best for Ill/Time). Primal mastery isn't bad, power boost is a good power to have around(though I think you're build is spending too much of it's resources trying to get softcapped defense).
Also, for a build that's so defensibly oriented, I'm surprised you didn't take temp invulnerability. The resist isn't bad, and it can slot a Steadfast Protection +3 Def IO, which would allow you to reduce how much def you're getting from other places as that boost goes a long way.
If you do want to keep Primal, I'd suggest getting temp invul, and either dropping manuvers or Time's Juncture for it(Illusion is a ranged set, and Energy Blast doesn't help keep foes in melee, so while it's a useful power, it's not necessary). In any, if you do keep manuvers, I strongly advise switching it to combat jumping or hover, combat jumping is cheaper, and hover is just a more useful power.
For contrast, here is the build I'm using
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Decim-Build%(5), Apoc-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Blind -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(7), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9), HO:Nucle(11), Dmg-I(11)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(17), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(17), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(19), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Temporal Mending -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(21), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(21), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), EndRdx-I(23), EndRdx-I(25)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- HO:Golgi(A)
Level 12: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Krma-ResKB(25), Winter-ResSlow(27)
Level 14: Recall Friend -- Range-I(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(27), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(29), HO:Nucle(31), S'bndAl-Build%(31)
Level 20: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33)
Level 22: Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Slow%(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-%Hold(34), ImpSwft-Dam%(36)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Dam%(A)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Membr(36), HO:Membr(36)
Level 30: Flash -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(37), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(37), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), HO:Nucle(40)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(40), Achilles-ResDeb%(40)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(42), Mrcl-Heal(42), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(43), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Ice Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), ImpSwft-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), Ksmt-ToHit+(48)
Level 47: Frost Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany
Level 50: Pyronic Radial Final Judgement
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15)
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I think I might have been unclear, I don't know if the slow on distortion field stacks, but being up to have multiple up on the battlefield is useful, and I think the procs can hit multiple times.
I don't know how often the hold pulses, but it does pulse multiple times, the problem is even when it does hit it's low mag and for a short duration so it's more like an added bonus than real control. The lockdown proc makes the hold more reliable, but it'll never be good at grabbing anything other than minions.
The chance for recharge slow procs have their uses, but the problem is that a)You'll have a lot of recharge slow allready, and b)most enemies who will live long enough for the proc to make a huge impact are resistant to recharge slows. I would slot the basalisk's gaze and dark watcher one mainly because they have good bonuses at the 4 slot mark, yet you don't really get much benefit from a force enhancement other than the proc.
If price is an issue, I'd skip basalisk's gaze, the set gets expensive unless you are willing to use alignment merits. The purple confuse set is really affordable for a purple set(because confusion powers are rare), so it may be worth getting. If you are skipping basalisk's, either because of costs or because you don't need the recharge, load it up with damage procs. -
Quote:I'll defiantly take some of those changes into account. I think switching focused accuracy for tactics(6 slotted with gausians) would help with end, and I was thinking of going cardiac anyways(which would also give some extra resist, making the build harder to kill).Originally Posted by EJI
TheOOB:
I made some small changes for some small gains: slightly better recovery (it looks slightly worse because mids doesn't account for pshifter procs), +139 hp, +1 hp/s regen, a tiny bit more s/l resist. Looks like it'll still be sucking wind, though. I'd drop maneuvers (see above build for how to pull that off
).
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What i'd really like to go is fit in spring attack for double shield charge action, but I'm not seeing a good way to fit shield charge in and still be able to softcap my defenses. -
The only thing distortion field needs is some recharge(at least enough to be perma, but more is better so you can stack it), and maybe some endrdx(time is an end heavy set). It does like it some procs though, and I think Lockdown chance for +2 mag hold is wonderful, and impeded swiftness chance of smashing damage is great at well. The hold is not worth enhancing, and time has little trouble hitting the slow speed cap, but depending on the needs of you're build you can fit 4 basilisk's gaze in there for the amazing set bonuses.
On my illusion/time I'm using Basilisk's Gaze Chance For Recharge Slow, Acc/End/Rch/Hld, End/Rch/Hold, and Rch/Hold along with the two procs I mentioned above.
Time's Juncture is also easy to slot. I like Dark Watcher's Despair because of the great set bonuses(I'd use the To-Hit Debuff, End/To-Hit Debuff, To-Hit Debuff/Rch/End, and the Proc), perhaps along with an Impeded Swiftness chance for smashing damage proc. If you'll run into rule of 5 problems, you could also put in 3 from dampened spirits which will also provide good set bonuses and make the power good enough(Once again, To-hit,To-Hit/End, and To-Hit/Rch/End).
You'll notice for both of the one's above I don't suggest using the pacing of the turtl proc. That's because recharge procs have fairly little impact in most fights, but they are worth it if they'll provide a good set bonus. Since time doesn't need much if any slow enhancement, you likely won't be using the set.
Arctic Air, when paired with time, I would slot one of two ways. The first way just involves putting two standard EndRdx IOs in there and calling it good. You don't need more slow, and the confusion is really short in duration. The other way I'd go is to slot 5 of the confusion purple, Coercive Persuasion, because it provides amazing set bonuses(just slot everything but the pure confusion one, the proc will be very good in there).
In either case, you may want to add an Impeded switness chance for smashing damage, and/or a malaise illusion chance for psi damage. -
Here is my variant on the BS/Shield build, it has softcapped M/R/AoE defense, and as much recharge as I could squeeze in there. Always looking for feeback.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hack -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Achilles-ResDeb%(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(7), GftotA-Def/Rchg(9), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Slice -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-%Dam(15)
Level 4: True Grit -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 8: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(25), RedFtn-EndRdx(27)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(27), HO:Enzym(29)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Whirling Sword -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 20: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam(33), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(34), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), ImpArm-ResPsi(34)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Disembowel -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dam%(39)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def(39), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(40), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), GftotA-Run+(40)
Level 32: Head Splitter -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(42), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(43), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Oblit-%Dam(45)
Level 38: One with the Shield -- Heal-I(A)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(46), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Build%(48)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- RgnTis-Regen+(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
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Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(19), Numna-Heal(21)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(17), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(17)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Quote:Well, I'll admit I have no idea how knockback powers work by the numbers thenOriginally Posted by Carnifax_NA
APP Torrent does 0.67 knockback, ie knockdown. It's not terrible but it's not great. If you want to take Primal to get Power Boost (which I do with my Plant/Emp) it's not an awful choice at all (better than Conserve Power).
I do think Primal is a good APP, even for Illusion/Time, but I think that if you're taking it just because you want to use it to softcap defense, you may be picking the wrong set because a set with a defense shield does that better. Power boost is a really good power though, and there are other reasons to take it, but take it because you want it to make you're healing and control a little better.
For an illusion controller, defense isn't the goal, it's a bonus, a thing you work twords when you're build is otherwise good to make it that much better. If I take say, combat jumping, I'm not taking it because it gives me defense, I'm taking it because it can give me +7.5 global recharge without needing any extra slots, the virtually end-free defense is just a bonus. It's why I think the fighting pool is a sub par choice for an Illusion troller, you're taking one more or less useless power(boxing or kick), and one power with very little use(tough), for one power that honestly is barely better than say maneuvers which has no prerequisites. I promise you that if you're Illusion build has weave, you are giving up some manner of control for it, and since Illusion has so little hard control, you want all the control you can get.
I'd agree that perma PA is not essential to any Illusion Controller, my Illusion/Time doesn't have it yet and he is amazing both solo and in teams. That said, perma PA is a very powerful tool, and a noble goal to work twords to be sure. With spiritual alpha and easy access to LotG globals with alignment merits, any Illusion build can obtain it, and for Illusion/Time it is even easier to obtain. I personally think some of the strongest points of /time when paired with illusion is gaining PA, and how slowed response makes PA even better.
I don't think perma PA is neccesary, but I think if you're pairing Illusion with Time and you are not aiming for it, you might want to question if time is the right secondary, because without perma PA you are not really using the strong suits of /time as well as you could be. -
I like crushing impact, it's cheap provides ED capped damage with 5 slots, and has good set bonuses without having to put a full 6 slots into it.
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The only one of the T5's I'm not a fan of is afterburner, but I understand some people like it and thats fine. My views on them are fairly simple.
Afterburner: By taking any travel power, I'm trading combat effectiveness for out of combat speed, and with afterburning I'm now trading two powers for it. True it can slot a LotG +recharge IO, and at least Air Sup and Hover are good powers, but I would have liked something with combat utility. That said, plenty of build take Combat Jumping just for the LotG and this might be a more useful option if you don't need combat jumping for softcap defense. I would like the power to have some combat utility though.
Spring Attack: I like this power, a lot. While true it's damage and recharge are not as good as shield charge or lightning rod, it's a pool power that anyone can take and is available at a fairly low level. It's not worth it for every build, but it is a nice extra attack, which si good because Leaping's other attack sucks. You gotta take combat jumping to take it, which is an okay power choice in most builds.
Long Range Teleport: I got the mission teleporter, base teleporter, pocket D teleporter, ouroborus, and even the wentworth teleporter, so I really don't need it, but for people who don't have all those this power would be great. Furthermore, recall friend and teleport foe are both good powers. I only wish there was a few more zones it could go to. I think not being able to go to hazard zones hurts the power.
Burnout: Hasten and Super Speed are great powers, so prereqs are not a problem. The power has it's uses for sure. Controllers and defenders oftentimes have very powerful long CD powers that can save a team if they can use them in quick succession, and many a tank and scrapper can double up on their steroid ult to be near invincible for sometimes up to 4 minutes straight. Most builds when heavily IO'd out won't need it, but it's a useful leveling power, and also useful for people who don't have IO access. -
Quote:I like recall friend a lot for any build that contains good stealth. You can cut half an hour off of some boring TF's.Originally Posted by Mage_Black
My Bad! Should of selected Recall Friend.
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Energy torrent is listed as knockback in mids, and in energy blast and for my phantasm it defiantly causes ragdolls to go flying, I'm not terribly familiar with the knockback mechanics so maybe it's low magnitude means it won't cause them to fly very far.
Unenhanced, Group Invis provides 1.8 defense when suppressed, and with 2 Defense IO's it jumps to 2.8 defense when suppressed.
Local Man allready made most of the points I would make.
For Time Crawl, if I'm going to put anything other than a plain Acc IO in there, it's going to be two pieces of tempered readiness for some recovery, otherwise it's a one slot wonder(and honestly most of what I use it for is to make time stop a mag 4 hold.)
I tried, I really tried, but short of using the purple set, I have not found a better slotting for blind than Local Mans, 4 basilisk's gaze, an Acc/Dam HO, and a Dam IO is just plain great.
I can almost promise that if you have perma hasten, chrono, and PA(which is kinda the ultimate goal of any Illusion/Time), if you have perma hasten with 3 recharge IO, you have it with 2 recharge IO, likely you have it with 1.
I'd agree with Local Man, PA is your most important power, and deserves 6 slots. I don't have the numbers, but I doubt Phantasm is hitting the damage ED cap either(and that resist aura doesn't do much, phanty doesn't die much, and if he does you can just recast him).
I general, while I'll be the first to say to anyone that it's more important to make your powers work well than it is to get set bonuses, I see a lot of occasions where you are either using common IO's, or frankenslotting, when you might as well be aiming for set bonuses. There are a few places in you're build where switching around a few pieces would give you some extra recovery(or other bonuses) and that's important unless you're going cardiac. -
This most recent build is a lot cheaper mageblack, something you can obtain without several billion inf, but there are still a few things a bit off about it.
First, you have two travel powers, teleport and fly, and I don't really see a need to have both. Furthermore, teleport is not slotted, which means it won't be useful(also the HO slotted in fly is directly worse than a plain endrdx IO, fly hits the fly speed cap without enhancement.) You still don't have flash, which remains the only form of AoE hard control avaible to illusion controllers, and I really don't think it should be skipped. With all you're acc and recharge, it doesn't need much to be good, an Acc and a Recharge IO would be fine, and if you can spare the slots, 4 Basilik's Gaze would be great.
I also feel you are over enhanced in some areas. First and foremost, you have way more recharge than you need, even without you're incarnate ability, chornoshift hasten, and PA are perma by a large margin, and after you get those abilities perma, more recharge doesn't really help you. You got a good 3 hit attack chain(Blind->Spectral Wounds->Ice Blast), that doesn't need as much recharge as you have, so you could spare some space in you're build by cutting some slots here and there. In particular, superior invis is way over slotted, without anything from red fortune you allready softcap you're build, and none of the set bonuses form the set are helping you, you'd be better off with two endrdx IOs than filling it out with that set.
Also slowed response is having similar problems, it's allready perma without all those slots, and it doesn't need a ton of acc. Enhancing the def debuff doesn't help much because honestly you'll rarely miss ever with this build, the -res is far more important(and far more enhanceable), and the only set bonus you're benefiting from is the recovery.
Anyways, onto my thoughts, at least, on primal mastery. I think it's a good set, and can work with this build. Power blast is a fine blast, decent damage, decent recharge. The knockback provides a little extra control and damage mitigation, but it's difficult to control and can be a problem in teams or areas with tight spawns so it's a balancing act. I wouldn't take it without hover. Energy Torrent is much the same way, decent attack, knockback is useful, but can be annoying, take hover with it. They can both slot the knockback damage proc so that ties them up with the ice blast, and Energy Torrent has less recharge than Fireball/Frost Breath, but less damage.
Then we get to power boost. Power boost primary boosts the effectiveness of farsight, and gives a nice boost to other power effects as well. Right out of the box it can be used often enough to keep a boosted farsight up perma, so that's a plus. That said, I think it makes it harder to maintain a softcapped defense than Ice Armor. Ice Armor is an easy 20+% defense, while power boost will provide between 10-15, which means you're going to have to find 5-10 extra defense from other sources in order to softcap you're defense, which means you're going to have to make some sacrifices. Further, having a resist shield is nice, but I like the OS tools fire and ice provide.
I think Primal Mastery is a good set with some good tools, but if you're taking it take it because you really want the knock back, not because of power boost.
Also conserve power is good, but it is easy to build a lot of recovery into Illusion/Time.