First controller in years: Need advice
By
Draeth Darkstar,
Posted on: 2011-10-14 19:34 in Controllers
Storm Summoning is probably the worst secondary for pairing with Electric Control, in terms of functionality. Storm Summoning has all kinds of knockback powers and repel type powers and other things that more or less play poorly with the fact that Electric Control prefers to keep things in one place without moving around. Since the AOE Immobilize of Electric Control doesn't prevent knockback or knockdown or repel, you can't even brute force the combo. So you basically would spend a lot of effort trying to mix the two. That doesnt mean you can't make it work. It just isn't a natural fit.
Lewis
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Ah, well. That's very important information. I was undering the impression that chain fences would negate the knock back. That isn't much fun. >_<
Ok, well I may have to think things through a bit more on what I want to do.
Recommendations for good controller combinations would be appreciated.
I'm always interested in most durable, most damage, most ultility, etc. Just interested in what combos people like out there, since I guess elec/storm isn't such a great idea after all 
How about elec/Kin? They seem to be both melee friendly.
I've got a lv 20 electric/time controller, that is the most fun I've had with a toon in a while. There is great synergy between the two, with both liking to be in melee range. You can get Jolting Chain at 6, which knocks down mobs. At 4 and 8, you can get Time's Juncture and Conductive Aura, both of which are toggle 25' aruas around you. TJ slows all the mobs around you, while CA steals mobs end, and boosts your own.
So by 8 you can knock down most or all of a group, run in and by the time they stand back up and try to attack, they have no end.
And at 12, you get Static Field, which is a big sleep patch, so you can deal with bigger groups one by one. Also most of my problems with low level toons is is caused by running out of end. With CA so far I have been able to run both toggles, and drop the patches, and heal and still have more end rec than I am using.
Did I mention is has a very nice heal, so what little damage the poor slowed and with no end mobs can do with brawl, you can just heal right back up.
The only downside I have found is lack of damage, and getting on a team or taking a couple of pool attacks, if soloing, should fix that.
Global is @honcho
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Living Coal LV 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Nature Boy LV 41 Earth/Kin Cont
Great Wacko LV 34 Robot/FF MM
plus many alts
I've also been really enjoying Elec/Time.
If you're more interested in Storm may I suggest Earth, Plant, or Ice? All pair well with it, especially plant.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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My first recommendation, as always, is an Illusion/Rad. It is, in my opinion, the most flexible build in the game, easy to play moderately well in the low levels, yet challenging to play really well in the upper levels. Phantom Army is your main protection/distraction, which combined with Deceive and invisibility allows you to pick off foes in relative safety -- if I take my time and I'm careful, I can go though missions without being hit a single time. Its weakness is that it does not have any AoE damage until the APP/Incarnate levels (unless you count pet damage as AoE), while it has strong single target damage. Ill/Rad is well known as the best "AV Killer" (although Ill/Cold is also up there). If you are interested, take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide, linked in my sig.|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
Ah, well. That's very important information. I was undering the impression that chain fences would negate the knock back. That isn't much fun. >_<
Ok, well I may have to think things through a bit more on what I want to do. Recommendations for good controller combinations would be appreciated. I'm always interested in most durable, most damage, most ultility, etc. Just interested in what combos people like out there, since I guess elec/storm isn't such a great idea after all How about elec/Kin? They seem to be both melee friendly. |
In fact, if you go with anything paired with either Illusion or Radiation, you should take a look at my guide. It also has a lot of basic information for controllers in general including strategies. Illusion pairs very well with all of the other secondaries, but especially well with Cold, Time, Storm and Trick Arrow. Radiation is the best general-purpose secondary in that it works well with all of the primaries.
A quick summary of the other primaries: Elec and Ice are low damage with decent AoE control with powers that make them work well in melee. Earth is the next lowest damage, but has the best AoE control from range. If you want Storm, Earth/Storm is a great combo but doesn't get much damage until upper levels.
Fire, as you know, does the best AoE damage in melee and has moderate control. Plant is the next best damage, has pretty good AoE Control that heavily relies upon one combo (Seeds+Roots), but is weak at single target damage. Plant/Storm is a great combo.
Mind has decent Single Target Damage in low levels, and then gains lots of AoE control in upper levels but not much AoE damage. Mind gets extra AoE control instead of a pet. Gravity is the ugly step-child of control sets -- good but slow single target damage but generally weak on AoE control. Grav relies heavily upon its pet for AoE -- I soloed my Grav/Storm most of the way to 50 and it took a while, but was a fun character that required a lot of strategy to play. Like Electric, Gravity's AoE Immob does not prevent knockback.
As for Secondaries, Rad works with everything, is very flexible for solo or team, and gets most of its good powers early. Rad works well with the melee primaries with Choking Cloud. Storm is a lot of fun, but is chaotic unless you have a lot of experience with it -- great solo and small team, but you have to limit some of the powers on large teams. Storm also has the most damage from the secondary (from the last two powers) and great defensive powers, but tends to use a lot of endurance. Kinetics is a great buffing set but lacks defensive and strong debuffing powers, and puts you in melee most of the time, and is very "clicky." Cold has great debuffs, great team defense buffs but no self-heal and is a late bloomer with the two best powers at the end.
Empathy is popular for the "healer" crowd -- great buffs and heals but no debuffs -- not very good for a solo player. Thermal is a combo set, with heals, Resistance shields for teammates, a few debuffs.
Trick Arrow is a ranged control and debuff set, and you get some decent damage from Oil Slick Arrow, but no buffs whatsoever. An Earth/TA controller has more ranged AoE control than any other. Sonic is one of the least popular secondaries with good Resistance buffs and debuffs and some mez protection, but not much else. Force Field is all about Defense and knockback, also has mez protection, but also not very popular.
And finally Time: It appears to be a very powerful secondary with lots of good debuffs, buffs and control. It is very popular now because it is new, but I suspect that it will eventually be considered one of the best secondaries (if it isn't nerfed). It has some different mechanics and seems more single-target focused. It has a PB AoE aura that helps it work well with Fire, Ice and Elec, and yet still works well with all other primaries. I'm working on an Ill/Time and Fire/Time.
Since you seem interested in Storm and in damage, I suggest a Plant/Storm. Plant also pairs well with Rad and Kin (I have both of those at 50), and probably Time. Plant and Fire have the best AoE damage, while Illusion, Mind and Grav have good single target damage -- but in my view, Mind and Grav don't keep up with Illusion in later levels.
The problem with Electric/Kin is that Electric is low damage, so you don't get much benefit from those great Kinetics buffs to your damage. It would be a good team character, but not great solo -- Electric relies heavily upon its pets for damage, which you don't get until 32. I'm running an Elec/Rad, and I can solo in upper levels but it is slow.
One nice thing about controllers -- every combo results in a slightly different character with different strategies, strengths and weaknesses. If there are other combos you want to know about, just ask.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Great post, Local man. Thanks, that's a lot to consider.
Another option if you want to play electric control but don't want to sacrifice damage is to play a dominator. Dominators are great at taking those low damage, high control primaries, and making them deadly.
I'd personally agree the illusion control is one of the funnest, most versatile sets around. Rad and Time pair great with everything, but they pair particularly well with Illusion control(they are the only sets to provide +recharge buffs and -res debuffs).
I've always had a soft spot of fire builds as well, fire/rad can pull off a lot of damage while still controlling well, and fire kin almost feels like you're playing a blapper.
If you want to play /Storm, I highly recommend Earth/Storm for theme. At low levels, you'll be very powerful on teams, and you'll really feel that you're contributing a LOT to the effort. The amount of control you wield is amazing. You'll be able to pick and choose which powerful combo you'd like to unleash on each enemy groups (the variety keeps it interesting).
As noted above, though, soloing is tough until you get Animate Stone, Tornado, and Lightning Storm in the 30s. Then, you'll be able to crank up the difficulty as high as you like and have at it!
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The best thing to do is try some out . . . if it looks like fun, level it up for a while and see how you like it. My Ill/Rad I loved right away. Plant is great as soon as you hit level 8 and get Seeds of Confusion. Ice is kind of blah until you get Arctic Air well slotted. I hated Gravity until I finally rolled up a Grav/Storm and got him up to about 30, and then really started liking him once I got the pet at 32.|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
Great post, Local man. Thanks, that's a lot to consider.
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Many of these sets have their best powers in the last tier or two, so they are late bloomers. It is hard to tell how good they are until those levels.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Since I'm pretty interested in the Storm set, I'll give Earth/Storm/Fire a try. I think if I work at it I can make a pretty neat themed build.
Edit:
Good grief....there's too many good powers in earth and storm!
Fire/Storm controllers do a good balance of damage and control if your looking to go storm. Fire Cages (AOE Immob) in the control set does have -kb for the first 15 sec or so. With some recharge and end redux it can be spammed and glue everything to the ground to enjoy those fun powers like tornado, lightning storm and bonfire without getting tossed around.
Fire/storm corrupters also do considerable damage with a vastly different play style.
If your still thinking electric control which also can be very fun and effective I'd suggest going dominator. Myself I have an elec/elec dominator closing on lvl 40 who is highly effective in both team and solo situations.
I'd suggest one thing you might want to consider is how much support you want to give.
If you're intending to team a lot and want something that buffs friends and debuffs foes, /Thermal is an excellent (but often overlooked) choice.
If you want something that's a bit of a jack of all trades but with few buffs for your team, but a fun set then Trick Arrow is an excellent secondary too, but you'll need to find some way to ignite your Oil Slick Arrow, so fire or electric powers are probably a must at that stage. The good news with that however is you can usually get them in your Epic pool.
If you like the idea of being a god of chaos you could go Grav/Storm and just throw stuff about (but your tanker won't thank you much 
)
Mind is a good primary control. There's not much can resist a good mind controller
Earth is one of the best hard control sets and unusually has a couple of good debuffs in it too. I've got an Earth/Thermal at 50 and I managed to duo- or trio all the hero TFs with him. He doesn't do a huge amount of damage but he locks everything down solid so it becomes academic
Have fun and experiment - you may find many things that work for you that fly in the face of conventional wisdom. That's one of the joys of trollers 
Thelonious Monk
So, I played a fire/kin controller probably about 5 years ago and it's been on the shelf for a long time. I've been a melee player ever since. However, I'm having the itch to give another controller ago.
I kind of wanted to give a Elec/Storm controller a try since I wanted to do something that seemed thematic to me. However, elec is a completely new set to me and I was wondering what people thought about the powers in that set. What's good, what isn't, what's a must have, and what is skippable?
I'm working on a build, but I swear I want almost every power from my primary and secondary. Since I can't really do that, I was just curious how people have been doing with elec?