Would you buy: Powerset Skins?

At a price of 600-1000 PP?...

What is a Powerset Skin? Well, beside the name being gosh awful, it is exactly what it sounds like: a skin you put over an existing set. It was an idea I thought of when I was reading a thread comparing Super Stength to Street Justice. I haven't actually touched SJ yet but from what I hear, it's the same argument I have against Broadsword vs any other blade set. That is, the look of BS is weak, clunky and plain awkward. One could simply doctor up the animations, but then better animations doesn't fix speed or damage and other balance issues...i.e. it'd need revamping, something some might not want. Well on with the idea...

Powerset Skins...what would they do? Well, it depends what the devs are capable of, how difficult it'd be and if they feel it'd be profitable.

Powerset Costume Skin- Animation work isn't cheap...but creating alternate animations for existing sets would probably be less time comsuming than making a new set so I could see this being pretty cheap...like 300-600 PP. Think if they made a 'Duel Pistols' powerset skin which has animations more subdued than the flashy ones we have. A cosmetic option for various sets. Other examples....
~~Fiery Arsenal/Icy Arsenal = a Powerset Skin that has weapon-free animations for the Fire Sword attacks and sword animations for the fiery hand attacks.
~~Cross Bow = a Powerset skin that substitutes the Archery stance for something like the Assault Rifle Stance and using a crossbow.

(I could definitely see a 600 PP price or more if these skins spread over to all existing sets, for example the Fiery Arsenal skin giving options to Fire Melee, Fire Manipulation and Fiery Assault)

Powerset Reform Skin- This would be an iffy move. Reform Skin works just like a new powerset but attached to an existing set. I.e. if they create a kind of Optic Beam set and made it a subset of Energy Blasts or Goliath Melee a subset of Super Strength or Fencing/Iaido a subset of Broadsword/Katana respectively. You'd technically get 2 powersets for 1 character that you can swap these sets on the fly if they change costumes.
~~Optic Blasts = a reform skin that has less mitigative potential and burst for more quick and steady DPS and a ranged follow up type attack.
~~Goliath Melee = a reform skin with a closer feel to Street Justice, a lack or Rage, more consistent and varied AoE options and, most importantly, dynamic animations that equally or better portray heightened strength.

(These would be limited to a set by set basis but would cost more than regular powersets. The reason I'd see this as a more viable option than revamping old sets is because, no matter how much you change it, the legacy sets will always be playing keep up with the Jones. Rather than change and change and change the old sets, expand their options visually and/or conceptually and let *that* be the reason people crowd back to the old sets...because while Beam Rifle is awesome and shiny, Energy Blast would basically be *2* good sets with lots of custome options or extra replay/functionality from one set.)

...anyway, there you go. I post this as a thought mainly after hearing it doesn't take the devs long to make new powersets. Revamping/changing animations and sets, however, may take a lot more time.

So what do you think? Think the devs could do it? Would you pay for such additions? And how much?

For option 1: I'd rather just see them continue to expand the customization we already have.

For option 2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo_G The reason I'd see this as a more viable option than revamping old sets is because, no matter how much you change it, the legacy sets will always be playing keep up with the Jones. Rather than change and change and change the old sets, expand their options visually and/or conceptually and let *that* be the reason people crowd back to the old sets...because while Beam Rifle is awesome and shiny, Energy Blast would basically be *2* good sets with lots of custome options or extra replay/functionality from one set.)

I can't agree.

If you don't keep updating the original sets to keep up with the new ones and instead are adding in paid methods of improving them, you're essentially extorting the people who play the older sets, saying "You've got to pay more to be just as good."

Additionally, this still leaves the original version of the set to rot, continuing to get worse and worse over time as fun/fancy new sets are added, and rather than "Legacy Super Strength" getting buffed to be competitive they just make a new version which you have to pay for and may or may not like.

Plus it's more work. Now instead of just changing numbers and making new alternate animations, you've got to modify effects, change powerset layouts and essentially rebalance each of the set's new versions from the ground up.

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

Well, something I ran across on the beta boards...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphoid I brought this up in the beta. Synapse said that they would love to do more alternative animations, but at this point it is only a little more work (I think he said about a week) do do a whole new power set.

Of course he could be lying and making crap up...but if we were taking his word for it....making a whole new set of animations as skins is only slightly easier than just making a whole new set. That said, I'm of the opinion that 'tweeking numbers and animations' might not be 'easier' in the sense of how much actual labor is put behind them, but I bet it's a lot more time consuming to do since one needs to datamine to know the problem, come up with solutions that don't completely alter the set then test them.

As for 'leaving the original sets to rot', no one said SS is weak or bad (I doubt farmers are going to swap SS for SJ). Sets should be balanced to perform up to par, thats what a lot of sets got in the upcoming update. However, tweeking them may be out of the question when it comes to mechanics or conceptual completeness. Not so much out of the question, but then we're wading into 'more work' territory...more work that may piss players off. So do you attempt tweeks that may only get a satisfied nod from some players but possibly angry-face emotes from others? Branch off into a new set and just leave the other sets alone/behind? Why not a mixed solution that solves both problems?

For example: rian is and has been petitioning for better martial arts animations.

So look at MA, one can simply make up new kicks from existing fighting styles and cobble them together as alternate animations, but they still won't flow like SJ, a set *designed* with its style, animations, animation time, effects and mechanics to combine seamlessly...

Now look at SJ, it is being shown to not only give a nice brutal feel to its effects, but it fits better for a kick/punch mix than MA, or so people have said. It has animations people wished MA had and its mix of effects is better balanced and more team friendly...

Now look at MA again. It has gotten updates. It's getting more updates as it gets proliferated. They have alternate animations. In play, it does its job and does it well and there's only so much more you can do to it for only a ripple in the player base...

Now look up, a powerset skin to give MA all new animations? It's easy to say on paper but more limiting if they all have to match MA's current times. A reform skin, with the option of new animation and times balanced *for that* requires the devs not to rehash current MA, opens the possibility of amazingly complex and beautiful animations for a set like capoeira (for example) without constraints and it doesn't literally leave MA to rot since this skin *is* MA, just with different cast times with changes to keep a measure of balance.

Now look at me. I'm riding a hoverboard.

*Old Spice whistle jingle*

A "skin" is a game modding term which refers to applying a new texture over an existing model, usually a player character, hence a new "skin." A lot of older games would have the same basic model for most characters, just with each of those having a different clothing texture and a different skin texture and face. UT2003 and UT2004 are prime examples. So applying a "skin" over animations just sounds... Awkward. I'd suggest calling this "customization" or "alteration."

That said, I have to disagree with your general premise on old sets - just because Broadsword or Super Strength are old doesn't mean they're bad. I like the older sets because they're simpler to play and don't rely on gimmicks so much. I'll always pick a simple, direct, basic set over an overly-complex ones, and yet the more sets get added, the more *** backwards they are to use. What happened to just picking up a sword and hitting things with it? Why does it have to have combos and swappble situational effects and teleportation and such? Not all sets need to appeal to all people.

All of that said, I honestly wouldn't be against adding new animations and effects for older sets, and I wouldn't even mind adding those for Paragon Points. More cosmetic customization is always good, and I've yet to see that statement even close to proven wrong. So, the more the better.

I'm not sure I agree about customizing a set's mechanics, though. Considering Swap Ammo is the worst thing to happen to the game since the Origin of Powers, the less we make sets "customizable" the better. In general, though, I just don't see the need for it. Each powerset comes with its pros and cons, and a lot of the time these correspond to the nature of the concept the set tries to emulate. Battle Axe, for instance, is supposed to be a big, heavy, slow weapon, and it is. Getting a faster, weaker version of it would be kind of corrupting what the set stands for. In general, I don't like blurring the lines between sets. I'm much rather have singular, iconic sets that bring their own flair to the game over having this much fiddly customization to the point where everything can be everything else. ESPECIALLY for money.

In general, the LAST thing I want is what Champions Online had. Maybe it's me being lazy and simple, but I'd rather let the balancing and optimization work stay in the developer's hands, instead of having to worry about which version of Broadsword is the most productive, only to end up realising the one I wanted is the worst of the lot.

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In short: More cosmetic customization for existing sets? Hell yeah! More min/maxing options for existing sets? Not a fan of it. Will not pay for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I get what he is talking about even if no one else does, only problem is that doing this the person could have completely different characters under one slot and change them by changing costumes. But a melee tank would still be a melee tank just one would use a broad sword and another costume would be like Chinese sword user so they could look completely different. So i say no that's why power sets are made for different concepts animations can very with in the set so mixing and matching to fit what you want. example ( all kicks or hand attacks for martial arts or adding non breathing attacks for ice of fire sets.

/unsigned due to would rather have a few options for the powers we have not to were we could make 5 or six characters under one slot. A shape changer set is what your character would be like or could be like and to that i say no. let them make a power set for some thing like that ( if they can but more than not) which i don't care if they ever do or not.

So... the difference between Broadsword and Katana?

If it was funky, sure. It's technically a new powerset. Not all new powersets need shiny new mechanics.

I'd also support just adding new anims to old sets, but probably wouldn't pay for those as much.

What I'd actually buy new skins for:

Mastermind Primaries.

I want thugs that look like secret agents, and ninja that look like yakuza (or in the case of the Oni, an actual ninja). I want mercenaries that look like Longbow or Vanguard or Arachnos, or a SWAT team, or 1930's gangsters. I want demons that look like mutants. I want steampunk robots. I want zombies that look like vahzilok zombies instead of magical zombies (including a tier 3 pet that looks like a zombie instead of a lich). Or zombies that look like mummies.

As far as I can tell, with a few exceptions, this would "only" require new skins/costumes for most of these. Some might demand a new body ("Huge" instead of whatever body the Oni uses, for example).

People are already expected to pay to play Masterminds, so they might be willing to shell out more money to be able to costumize their pets. And I'm not actually asking for real customization, I just want different kinds of premade skins. I don't have to be able to change colors on them or anything.

I'm for this as long as the animations stay the same duration no matter what the powerset is.

So sure, let those who want boring animations for Dual Pistols have them, but it'd likely feel slower and then have those who spin about going "You know just standing in place is going to get you killed, this isn't a quickdraw fight."

Really, it's that standing there that bores me of AR and Archery as it is, so if they made flashy animations in the respective sets, I'd actually make one and get it to 50!

i still do not see any need for this it is a wast of time add more animation options or types of swords to the set (so no advantage can be gained over one or the other whether its broad sword or katana) pets for master minds same thing as changing the weapons thugs (skulls, or any other punk gang) mercenary's (police, or any other well organized gang) for example no need for "skins" just add the options to the powers all ready simple no need for yet another redundant system to over lap another with the exception of on master minds (the primary to chose between maybe a lightning attack for ninjas and not the stupid bow which i hate with the concept for the character but the primary would have to be divided like the solder or widow set so primary attack could be chosen but still think a skin would not be right for this as well the set should be redone )

I like the idea of powerset costume skins but the alternate animations would need to significantly different for me to consider buying them. To me this really means a "stance" change for the powerset. I'm not really interested in shelling out money for a slightly different punch or shoot animation but I would pay money for the ability to use a different weapon type with specific sets. For example:
Crossbows for Archery and Trick Arrow
Assault Rifle or Dual Pistols for Trick Arrow (so it basically becomes "Trick Shot")
A Wand or Staff option for the elemental Control, Blast and Assault sets (I'd also expect these options to work for the elemental Epic Pools to make them worth buying)
A two-handed Broadsword option
A left-handed melee-weapon and right handed shield option (I suspect this is even more problematic but I'd still like it)
Assault Rifle for Devices and Traps (well, just for Web Grenade and Smoke Grenade)

How much would I pay? Probably about 50% of the price of a full powerset (so 400 points) if it included reskins of all 9 powers, less if it was for an epic pool or only changed a few (such as the Traps/Devices example) and more if the epics or other pwoersets were bundled in.

There are probably a few others but those are the ones that spring to mind. I'd also be ok if the stance type had to be chosen at character creation (i.e. you can make a Bow Archer or a Crossbow Archer but once you've chosen it is fixed) although obviously I'd prefer to change it in the tailor.

Powerset reform I'm less keen on. While there are some advantages I think it sounds like a new powerset would be better.

I might pay for alternate animation sets, though I think 400 points might be the most I'd pay for a whole set of animations. I'd much prefer to be able to preview the animations in the creator and cherry pick the specific ones I want for purchase in the store like costume pieces for maybe 50-60 points each.

The other option you mention, however, is really just making new powersets. To put your mind at ease over copied sets, they could rework the user interface so it showed subcategories for some sets (for instance, there could be a Swords power with the subcategories of Broadsword and Katana/Ninja Sword), but at the end of the day it's still a new powerset.

No, I wouldn't.

Frankly, I'm worried about the direction this game is going, where you have to "pay" for virtually everything. If I shell out my monthly subscription, I should be getting enhancements as part of the deal - including alternate graphics/animations for powersets.

so let me get this straight the skin would go over the other like broad sword and the skin would be rapier the animations would be different so times and effects would be completely different than that of a broad sword but are under the same power set so you would get to power sets under one would you be able to change them like a person changes costumes so one character could have two different power sets if so i say no. But if once chosen it is set so that character is tied to the one style even if respected then maybe but i still do not see it. Why not just fix the old ones but there again i for one do not see what is wrong with them i would rather have options for them which would be easy to do a staff or wand object to use to do the effect or having a chose as to were its coming from my hand mouth or eyes or different types off effects which none of these effect the casting times of the power sets. If you are talking about changing the times and effects and items well thats whats known as a new power set.